juicing caused persistent pain. any ideas?

[fprefect]

Hello everyone. after blending some veges and fruit as part of breakfast, I have added pain in my scalp and neck. I am already mostly house bound, and I am trying to avoid being bedridden due to this. i would appreciate any help.

The pain feels like muscular tightness, but it also causes some referred nerve pain in my arms and legs at times.

Some background. I have had cfs since 2009 or 2006. onset was slow. it was diagnosed by a rheumatologist. iirc, I meet the international consensus criteria. I have PENE, brain fog and some other good stuff. I also have a diagnosis of Fibromyalgia from 2 pain specialists.

amongst many other things, i supplement b12 (125mcg hydroxo) and magnesium. These have helped with nerve related pain, but this new pain isn't responding.

Every time I took the pulpy juice, I could think normally (better than usual) for about 5 minutes and then I had more scalp tightness. I wasn't thinking clearly and did this for about 2 weeks till the pain got noticeable even when not juicing.

any ideas?

Ford

 

[manna]

could be....in chinese medicine raw/cold food is said to weaken the spleen/pancreas meridians. this governs, to name a couple, energy flow to the extremeties, including the head (think dizziness on standing) and the flow of water around the body ; think edema, including cerebral. the initial good feeling is probably the sugar and vit c rush. whilst i believe that raw is essentially the problem here, the specific affects could be pesticides, if its not organic, and/or specfic allergy to something you're blending as well.

 

[Martial]

Ever get tested for lyme? A lot of your symptoms could be from that.. Reason I ask is because sometimes de toxtype diets and the like can make me herx, which is very strange but common for many.

 

[maryb]

I think most nutritional experts say best to do veg on their own, maybe just one piece of fruit a day. So I do carrots and lettuce at present every day (I'm very boring like that but also extra sensitive to a lot of stuff). I don't eat fruit at all for a few weeks and maybe then will have just an apple in my juice. If it is the juice causing it then if you lay off it for a week and don't get the symptoms then you've got your answer.

 

[shannah]

Could the vegetables and fruits you're using to juice be high in oxalates?

 

[manna]

i thought what the hippocrates institute says on fruit was interesting; that it's hybridised to contain 50 times the amount of sugars as natural/ancient varieties and so they recommend against it for most people...and these folks are proponents of raw lifestyle.

 

[ukxmrv]

Sorry to hear that. For me juicing causes such severe pain in my stomach that I can't tell what the rest of me is feeling. If I stick with juicing I start vomiting and I feel very weak and poisoned. In particular, it's the sulphurous veges that make me really sick.
What have you been juicing?

 

[Martial]

i thought what the hippocrates institute says on fruit was interesting; that it's hybridised to contain 50 times the amount of sugars as natural/ancient varieties and so they recommend against it for most people...and these folks are proponents of raw lifestyle.

I alwats associated juicing with vegetables for some reason but yeah that could be a lot of sugar, I have a background in nutrtional sciences and most suggest that cooking vegetables and eating fruit as it is will yield best absorption. Juicing veggies especially makes so the fiber is very undigestable.

 

[ahmo]

This interests me. I've been posting on the "High Dosage methylfolate users" thread. I'm one on high doses. Suddenly I'm being forced to examine my veggie intake, to cut back. In my searching today I found this from Freddd:
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...untrap-a-methyl-trap.28218/page-2#post-430351

Eat well. But, based on your reaction to the green drinks, same as mine, avoid excessive amounts of vegetable folate, especially until you get healing going and can tell the difference in a few hours. I pay of if if I eat a garden feast and go into partial methylation block (commonly called "detox"). I have a nice organic garden, I just have to keep limits. I try to keep stable on 8mg a day of Metafolin. I could eat more veggies if I took 16mg a day.

Folate is, in part, about healing the nerves. Maybe there's something here for you to consider. cheers, ahmo

 

[Tito]

@fprefect
Are you sure you do not have fructose intolerance?
If juicing makes you bad, why don't you just stop?

 

[Ambrosia_angel]

@fprefect what was in the juice? I've had a bad reaction from fruits I've ate my whole life before. I recommend mainly green juices too. Especially if you aim is getting the nutrients and not the calories or nice flavours.

 

[fprefect]

everyone, thank you for your replies. I wasn't feeling well enough to reply earlier.


@manna
useful ideas. I don't think I have edema in my head though.

As for the rush, I haven't noticed the same feeling when drinking fruit juice with no sugar added, or from 500mg dissolved vit c.

It wasn't organic. so it could be pesticides, like you suggest.

to minimize variables, I only blended food i was also eating. I alternated between spinach and banana one day, and, broccoli and carrots and apple the next. i also blended effectively the same sized portions i would have eaten.

I will look up foods for the spleen / pancreas meridians, but I haven't found good time resources online yet.

interesting idea from the hippocrates institute.


@Martial
not yet. i didn't think my neurological symptoms fit, but I think my newest dr will test for it.

perhaps I am not understanding this, but isn't it expected that foods that help with detox with make us feel worse initially if we are overburdened with toxins? I empathize with your feeling rotten though.

i didnt know the fiber would become less digestible.


@maryb
i didn't know about the veggie only bit. ah well your approach sounds sensible. i hope you are not missing out on needed nutrients from the fruit.

i should have made clear that i blended for 2 weeks and stopped. unfortunately, the pain is still here 2 weeks later.


@shannah
good question. no idea. i will look into that. the only time i blended cucumber, tomato and apple, i noticed some different nerve related pain which i dont have when i eat those things raw and unblended.


@ukxmrv
ugh. that sounds terrible for you. i havent figured out which foods make me feel worse, other than milk protein and some questionable igg test results. please see my reply to manna.


@ahmo
very interesting! my pet theory is that i absorbed more nutrients via juicing and it got something started which made me low in whatever is causing the pain, like how i have had potassium demand increase when i take hb12. perhaps i should test a tiny amount of 5mthf.


@Tito
hmm. i dont know if i have fructose intolerance. i seem to get low blood sugar when i take too much ribose. not sure if that is related. i did stop the juicing


@Ambrosia_angel
please see my response to @manna. bummer about your bad reaction. i notice low mental clarity after meals sometimes. i dont know yet if it is due to leaky gut, dysbiosis or something else.


now i have lots of .. food for thought. *hides behind desk*

Ford

 

[RML]

I have been doing juicing for a while now, sipping on a red one right now too. The odd time I get some slight bloating, but I get that most of the time I eat or drink anything. And anyway I always still feel better after having one.

But last week I did have a bad reaction to one. After one or two mouthfuls started to get really intense burning sensation in my mouth, almost like a mix of a v sore thoat flu-like and my throat being on fire. Kinda felt like my throat closing up a little too.So as this was scary and not very pleasant, I didn't finished the drink. It went away after a while, but for rest of day whenever I swallowed, I could feel it sort still, like raw and tender. An hour later I got v bad stomach cramps too, this didn't last too long thankfully.

I did research it a bit, because never had a bad reaction before and always enjoyed them. I found out it was oxalates, and others had this burning throat when juicing with oxalate high veg. My juice that day was beetroot and some other veg. I didn't add a green apple like I normally do either. Beetroot should only be used 1/4 to 3/4 other veg , and I had a whole one in there and included another oxalate veg too. So it was way too much and not diluted down, therefore causing a reaction.

I do have 2 juice books with recipes etc, but generally don't use them, just throw a bunch of veg in the juicer to mix up. Since then I'm more careful to read up on the different portions comparisons, and what interacts with other veg. I still use beetroots, but now only 1/4 of it instead.

 

[manna]

@fprefect i equate cerebral odema with neuro inflammation. something i suspect pretty much everyone here probably has a degree of. i would guess anyone with excessive mind chatter has a degree of it too. i think theres an increase cerebral odema/inflammation during allergic reactions and whole proteins being decanted from the blood to the spinal fluid. other than that it maybe mild to moderate and not really distinguishable as neuro inflammation. if its removed for a short term, say by cranialsacral(?) therapy, then you know it was there

 

[Ambrosia_angel]

@Fperfect I found a great website and I was trying to look for this thread to tell you!

http://www.greenthickies.com/basic-green-thickie-recipe/

It tells you how to make a green meal replacement smoothies. I made this one with some tweaks and it tasted really nice except the bananas which I'm not fond of but you might like. She also teaches you how to make your own so you can mix and match. She makes it for two so half of the recipe above is 400 something cals. I had the whole thing which was 900 or so cals which has taken me to dinner time.

I don't have that much tummy issues since since dietary changes but this was pretty gentle on the tummy and she also has an anti inflammatory smoothie but you can mix and match anyway.

Funny thing is she actually recovered from cfs and I had read her blog a year ago but only recently have I been more interested in her since my new dietary change. Anyway it seems very good for anyone trying to get lots of nutrients.

 

[fprefect]

everyone, thank you for your replies. this added pain is cramping my style. hence the delay.


@RML
sorry to hear about your crappy experience. good thing you stopped. since you dont get an adverse reaction to some juicing, it makes sense to continue.

i am trying to do the 4r gut healing program now. I may retry juicing once i am more sure it won't cause persistent pain.

nice catch on the oxalates.


@manna
hmm. I dont understand enough about inflammation yet to have a productive discussion with you.

iirc, I have had craniosacral therapy and nerve related pain consistently eventually got better. However, it always reverted to baseline afterwards.


@Ambrosia_angel
thank you for the link. Please see my reply to RML.

The calorie count and anti inflammatory smoothies sound useful. As for the taste, at this point, I will eat cardboard to get better if i have to.

I agree the nutrients are helpful, but seems like something is stopping me from fully utilizing nutrients in my meals.

I am glad juicing works for you.


Ford