Hi Lisa,
I've had a fair amount of experience doing juice fasting, going back over 30 years. When I first started doing juice fasts (before CFS), I thought it was a miracle how I felt so much better than when I was eating solid food. Looking back, this experience seems to indicate I already had significant difficulties with digestion, and was, at least in part, setting the stage for my later developing CFS.
I continued to do juice fasts over the years, but noticed I had much less stamina over time to withstand some of the strains of fasting. I assume this was because of my advancing age, but much more likely had to do with my descending into full blown CFS.
I highlighted the above quote, because I'm of the opinion that the "psychological" factors they reference, is more likely due to the rigors of fasting (especially without an efficient detoxification system) than to any particular psychological makeup of the individual with CFS.
I've not done any juice fasts for many years now, but I've continued to wish I had the ability to do so. A couple years ago, after I began drinking copious amounts of raw goat milk kefir, I began to experiment with more of a modified partial fasting program which included varying amounts of kefir.
By adding this kefir to a more traditional juice fast, I found I was able to tolerate a partial fast much better than I have in the past. I believe a primary reason for this is because I feel I was "protein starved" for a long time because of poor digestion, and that the kefir pretty effectively addressed this protein deficiency.
My own perspectives regarding pwCFS doing juice fasting: Only do what your body can comfortably tolerate. Modify it in whatever way necessary so that it doesn't lead to undue "psychological stress", because this is most likely indicating a lot of physical stress. I believe any type of fast should for the most part be enjoyable and uplifting. "Grinding" through an overly difficult regimen is most likely going to be counter productive.
Best Regards, Wayne
Wayne, I think that as usual, you are right on target in your observations and conclusions about this.
Over the past several months, I've been experimenting with a variety of semi-fasting methods. (I'm far enough along in my recovery that I can do that; I certainly wouldn't have done it earlier on. And as with all detox, I don't think that people living in a problematic environment -- which just about all of England seems to be -- can do it effectively, so it doesn't surprise me that some people have tried to pursue this and not found any success with it.)
I spent about a week doing a supervised fast (just 16 ounces of green juice, some vegetable/bone marrow broth and a small amount of pureed vegetable soup per day). This went better than I thought it would -- I didn't have any more problems than the other people there, none of whom had really serious health problems.
I was suspicious about the idea that this would change what I wanted to eat, but it certainly did. I ended up with incredible cravings for organic fruits and vegetables, and started consuming 4+ cups of green smoothie mixtures per day. I was also consuming up to a quart of homemade kefir (either raw cow milk or pasteurized goat milk -- I wish I could get raw goat milk!), some cooked veggies, nuts, occasional brown rice or popcorn, and small amounts of very good beef or wild salmon (maybe 4 ounces every couple of days). It was like my body had been starving to death for years (probably true) and wanted as much good nutrition as it could get. This went on for a couple of months.
Then I killed off a tapeworm in my small intestine and it released a whole lot of really acrid toxin, and I think it fried my whole digestive system because I stopped feeling like eating anything except organic popcorn with good butter (which Dr. Guyer highly approved of for the motility) and kefir/yogurt. I think that stage is about done now, and I'm ready to go back to an "intensive nutrition" phase.
I've been doing lots of enemas (up to four coffee enemas per day plus an initial cleansing enema) or colonics this whole time. This seems really excessive, but when I stop I feel so much worse that it seems important. The toxins were flowing out like mad, even before I killed the tapeworm.
The kefir seems really essential to me, with regard to doing any sort of fasting long term. (I've also started making homemade probiotic yogurt with Guyer's 18-strain probiotic and think that is equally helpful though a bit different. I thought the yogurt maker was going to be a waste of money, but I really like it.) My feeling here is that insofar as this illness specifically involves mold poison, it would make sense that kefir/yogurt would be really helpful during the detox process, as the toxins go through the gut. Mold toxin kills off a wide swath of bacteria in the environment (that's its raison d'etre), and it seems to me that it does that in the gut too. If I supplement enough probiotics with homemade kefir/yogurt (store brands or capsules of probiotics don't have anywhere near enough), it seems to make up for what's being killed. In addition, according to Nourishing Traditions, kefir is helpful with regard to the gut lining, which (according to a bunch of studies) trichothocenes do a good job of destroying.
Most of the people who suggest doing all raw foods diets claim that the body can take the amino acids in the veggies and piece them together into whole proteins. That may be true for most people, but considering that trichothocenes disturb protein synthesis, that may not be true for us. So having some kind of animal protein seems like it may be more important for us than it is for most people. (Credit to Janis for pointing out this idea, btw.)
I think the thing that distinguishes CFS patients from other people who might be doing Gerson (such as people with cancer) is that CFS seems more specifically a biotoxin disease. I think that certain kinds of biotoxins may make people more likely to get cancer, but those patients also may have a wider range of other toxins in their bodies. Biotoxins are specifically neurotoxic, causing lots of psychological symptoms both upon exposures and during the detox process (especially if the toxins are not being escorted out of the body in a speedy manner as they're released). I've certainly experienced a lot of weird psychological symptoms as the toxins have come out, and most of the people with CFS who have detoxed while doing avoidance report to me similar experiences. I thought it was interesting that the Gerson people brought this up -- it actually made me more inclined to believe they actually had experience with true ME/CFS. (This all is wholly physiological, I believe strongly. It's not so much that the stress of CFS causes psychological issues, though that could be an added factor, and it's certainly not that psychological issues cause the CFS. It's that the specific inflammatory toxins involved in this illness cause both.)
I'm not sure if I should stay with green smoothies (I have a Vitamix now) or give juicing a try. There's something intriguing to me at this point about doing even more intense nutrition, such as Gerson's 13 glasses of juice a day. Insofar as the goal is to flip an epigenetic switch, maybe that would do it. That or stem cells.
Aquarius Girl, in terms of green smoothie recipes, here is one person who has some good ideas:
http://www.incrediblesmoothies.com/
https://www.facebook.com/IncredibleSmoothies
Here is Victoria Boutenko's recipe site:
http://greensmoothiesblog.com/recipes/index.php?view_page=recipes×tamp=1327158565
If you happen to know Jana, her husband comes up with mixtures that always sound good to me -- he really seems to have a knack for it. Try asking her what's in their blender.
Best, Lisa