Iv saline treatments

[sunshine44]

I have in the past greatly benefited from iv saline bags for 2-5 days. Usually during viruses in ambulances etc for dehydration. Always noticing positive effects.

I’ve had 7 bags just in past 6 weeks from covid in the er. My GP ordered 3 a week via home health care. I’ve only been doing one. Insurance having issues so I hired a private company. The nurse is an er nurse. She seemed very knowledgeable. But last week then this week I’m having violent crashes afterwards. I was hoping it was a fluke but does not seem to be. Hr up to 170 especially overnight. Immense weakness and unable to move many times. Diarrhea frequent at times or soft unformed stools yet slightly in a pickle bc I cannot sit up to tend to this and if I do I crash even harder with higher hr etc. my GI is mostly shut down. Feels paralyzed and very painful. Not thirsty at all today. Unlike me. Not able to eat but bites.

Has anyone heard of worsening after iv saline? Please do not let me be having a new reaction. This nurse has run these bags very fast I’ve noticed. Way faster than the hospital. Ugh.

Insight appreciated as I battle hell.

Just being told to go to er but I literally cannot rn. I really don’t know what they could even do to stop this as beta blockers dangerously plummet my vitals it’s been found.

 

[Judee]

You don't think that iv could be tainted? I know there was that doctor in Tx who tainted the ivs but wonder if someone would copycat. ??? I'm a bit paranoid these days about things like that.

Or maybe it's old stock even and not tainted but causing problems because of that??

I don't think it should be making your heart rate go up like that either.

The other thing is are they willing to let you try something like Midrodrine or Ivabradine? (The latter maybe be difficult to get approved for your insurance but some people find those (one or the other) helpful. ???? You can read the reviews on drugs.com

Maybe something like that would help you since you have such a bad case of POTS. ??

 

[sunshine44]

You don't think that iv could be tainted? I know there was that doctor in Tx who tainted the ivs but wonder if someone would copycat. ??? I'm a bit paranoid these days about things like that.

Or maybe it's old stock even and not tainted but causing problems because of that??

I don't think it should be making your heart rate go up like that either.

The other thing is are they willing to let you try something like Midrodrine or Ivabradine? (The latter maybe be difficult to get approved for your insurance but some people find those (one or the other) helpful. ???? You can read the reviews on drugs.com

Maybe something like that would help you since you have such a bad case of POTS. ??

Ugh. Idk. I hope not.
I don’t know my dr seems to only want to hand me to Mayo Clinic which I’m much too weak to access rn. She doesn’t seem to want to do much or test for much. Beyond the holster monitor I’m currently doing. Which is catching one of my most insane jags in years.

 

[Zebra]

Hr up to 170 especially overnight. Immense weakness and unable to move many times. Diarrhea frequent at times or soft unformed stools

Sunshine, I am very concerned that the rapid IV saline is causing an electrolyte imbalance in your system.

IMHO, your symptoms line up with elevated potassium levels. See link below.

Can your treating NP/GP arrange for you to have a blood draw at home? I would think a Comprehensive Metabolic Panel (CMP) when you are symptomatic could rule this in or out.

I hope this doesn't sound bossy! I recently did a deep dive into electrolytes and I am concerned about you.

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/15184-hyperkalemia-high-blood-potassium

 

[sunshine44]

Interesting. Tha

Sunshine, I am very concerned that the rapid IV saline is causing an electrolyte imbalance in your system.

IMHO, your symptoms line up with elevated potassium levels. See link below.

Can your treating NP/GP arrange for you to have a blood draw at home? I would think a Comprehensive Metabolic Panel (CMP) when you are symptomatic could rule this in or out.

I hope this doesn't sound bossy! I recently did a deep dive into electrolytes and I am concerned about you.

https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/15184-hyperkalemia-high-blood-potassium

Interesting. Thank you for the info. I kinda think it would be wise to have home healthcare do bloodwork too but… as I always say, I seem to live in the twilight zone! Like I cannot be this bizarre of a case. Anyways, so far there’s been no talk of that.

I will say this is (albeit severe), a reaction my body has had many times over. It’s devastating. It helped create the severe state im still in to this day and I mostly have found nothing that assists it. In years prior, I went to the er many many times with these issues and always had LOW potassium. So, they would actually give me potassium in an iv at times. But not always, many times it’s only kinda low.

But, I concur, why did this happen after iv fluids? Obviously she ran them much too fast. I’ve never had this reaction to them before in all years of being severe. And shouldn’t we do tests? It like give me a spinal mri to find out if it’s contributing!! Ughh.

Thank you.
Will definitely contemplate.

 

[wabi-sabi]

But, I concur, why did this happen after iv fluids? Obviously she ran them much too fast. I’ve never had this reaction to them before in all years of being severe

I would guess it's the amount of IV bags in a short time as much as the infusion speed. How much salt do you normally take?

 

[sunshine44]

I would guess it's the amount of IV bags in a short time as much as the infusion speed. How much salt do you normally take?

Agree. A lot.
My dr has me doing a ton of Celtic sea salt. Hard since gi mostly shut down though lately. Also doing fulvic acid in water and electrolyte pack from Celtic sea salt.

 

[Zebra]

Hey! In case you decide to look into this further. Here's an electrolyte disturbance cheat sheet designed for medical learners.

https://www.osmosis.org/answers/electrolyte-imbalances

 

[wabi-sabi]

My dr has me doing a ton of Celtic sea salt.

Do you know how many mg of sodium it is? Then you could compare to how much you were getting in the IV bag.

 

[sunshine44]

Do you know how many mg of sodium it is? Then you could compare to how much you were getting in the IV bag.

Hmm. I should look into that.

 

[BaileyBeached]

So I've taken a ton of iv fluid regularly for years. My doctor originally gave it to me to help me detox, so if you run it super fast it can help you flush everything out all of a sudden. The rate they usually run IVs is a drop per second or slower. A lot of people have trouble if you run it fast. If the purpose was crazy detox, then you can run it super fast, otherwise I would stick to lower speeds.

Since hurricane sandy I've had trouble with the temperature of the iv fluid. Mine always needs to be warmed before infusing, otherwise I'll have these scary spells which might be a form of shock.

If you're worried about electrolytes you can ask your doctor to change you to lactated ringer solution instead, this has a balance of sodium and potassium. The only issue I know of with lactated ringer is if you're prone to lactic acidosis. When people are dehydrated they usually give lactated ringer or iv saline. Iv saline is retained in the system more, but if your electrolytes aren't balanced right it can throw things off whereas lactated ringer is more neutral as far as electrolytes. I actually use both because my bp super super low.

I should add also that when my iv ends, my bp crashes, and this can make me feel quite ill

 

[andyguitar]

I have in the past greatly benefited from iv saline bags for 2-5 days. Usually during viruses in ambulances etc for dehydration. Always noticing positive effects.

So that treatment was ok.

Has anyone heard of worsening after iv saline? Please do not let me be having a new reaction.

Bit strange you are only getting it now, when you already had several positive results.

This nurse has run these bags very fast I’ve noticed. Way faster than the hospital. Ugh.

Could be this.. to much to soon. Other possibility would be a change in the composition of the fluid has changed?

 

[sunshine44]

So I've taken a ton of iv fluid regularly for years. My doctor originally gave it to me to help me detox, so if you run it super fast it can help you flush everything out all of a sudden. The rate they usually run IVs is a drop per second or slower. A lot of people have trouble if you run it fast. If the purpose was crazy detox, then you can run it super fast, otherwise I would stick to lower speeds.

Since hurricane sandy I've had trouble with the temperature of the iv fluid. Mine always needs to be warmed before infusing, otherwise I'll have these scary spells which might be a form of shock.

If you're worried about electrolytes you can ask your doctor to change you to lactated ringer solution instead, this has a balance of sodium and potassium. The only issue I know of with lactated ringer is if you're prone to lactic acidosis. When people are dehydrated they usually give lactated ringer or iv saline. Iv saline is retained in the system more, but if your electrolytes aren't balanced right it can throw things off whereas lactated ringer is more neutral as far as electrolytes. I actually use both because my bp super super low.

I should add also that when my iv ends, my bp crashes, and this can make me feel quite ill

This helps SOOOO much.

I really think it was run too fast and detoxed me. Wow. This felt like my old severe herx reactions.

They usually only do saline. Because my electrolytes are mostly fine except potassium a little low usually. That’s most likely an adrenal issue I’ve been told.

I was hoping to god I stent just become reactive to my life saving iv fluids 😭 you just made me feel so much better that there is a chance I didn’t.

She ran it FAST. Like 3? Liters in half? Hour. It made me uncomfortable but I know nothing about it and just trusted her when she said it makes no difference if you go slow or fast.

 

[sunshine44]

So that treatment was ok.

Bit strange you are only getting it now, when you already had several positive results.

Could be this.. to much to soon. Other possibility would be a change in the composition of the fluid has changed?

Agree. I think it’s that she ran it soooo fast from what people here and elsewhere are saying. I at first thought it was a fluke from covid last Monday but when the same exact severe situation occurred again, I knew it wasn’t a fluke and actually dangerous.

My gi remains mostly shut down after each of these episodes. In a very serious way.

 

[andyguitar]

My gi remains mostly shut down after each of these episodes.

As it says here, IV Saline can have some nasty side effects....But if this is what's happening it should just be a temporary problem.

 

[sunshine44]

As it says here, IV Saline can have some nasty side effects....But if this is what's happening it should just be a temporary problem.

Oh my gosh!!!
Do you think this is the name of what’s happening to me???

What is metabolic acidiosis??
It felt like I was literally being poisoned for 48 hours. I cannot describe how bad this feels. This evening, I’m having more windows of stable vitals. Knock on wood. Many things still occurring and I’m still having pockets of absolute chaos in vitals but… this brings me hope.

So much.

Um, it’s going to be really interesting that I’m wearing a holter monitor that caught both of these situations over one week. My heart was doing insane flips etc. non stop plus the other vitals stuff. it’s going to be very interesting what they witness that occurred. I will let you guys know what cardiologist calls this.

 

[wabi-sabi]

My heart was doing insane flips etc. non stop plus the other vitals stuff. it’s going to be very interesting what they witness that occurred. I will let you guys know what cardiologist calls this.

Hey, that's good news that you caught it on the recording!

 

[BaileyBeached]

This helps SOOOO much.

I really think it was run too fast and detoxed me. Wow. This felt like my old severe herx reactions.

They usually only do saline. Because my electrolytes are mostly fine except potassium a little low usually. That’s most likely an adrenal issue I’ve been told.

I was hoping to god I stent just become reactive to my life saving iv fluids 😭 you just made me feel so much better that there is a chance I didn’t.

She ran it FAST. Like 3? Liters in half? Hour. It made me uncomfortable but I know nothing about it and just trusted her when she said it makes no difference if you go slow or fast.

Whoa 3 liters in half an hour is way too fast. Generally even 1 liter in an hour is too fast. I usually do just a liter per day and it usually takes me maybe 8ish hours (but that's not fast). My doc said I could do over a liter per day, but I shouldn't do more 2 liters on back to back days.

I'm glad I could help. Hope you feel better!

 

[sunshine44]

Whoa 3 liters in half an hour is way too fast. Generally even 1 liter in an hour is too fast. I usually do just a liter per day and it usually takes me maybe 8ish hours (but that's not fast). My doc said I could do over a liter per day, but I shouldn't do more 2 liters on back to back days.

I'm glad I could help. Hope you feel better!

It sounds like I was mistaken. Tonight my nurse friend said there are only one liter bags so we aren’t sure where I got the number 3 from. I have no idea. Suffice it to say, 1 liter in a half hour was much too fast for me.

Thank you again.

 

[andyguitar]

What is metabolic acidiosis??

An imbalance of the Acid Base balance.

Do you think this is the name of what’s happening to me???

Possible. I did read something about how rapid IV saline can cause it. It was from an article/research paper about it being a complication of the use of IV saline during surgery. Are you taking any salt supplements? Just asking as 1 litre of "normal saline" contains 9 grams of sodium. Sounds like a lot.