Is absorption of transdermal thiamine comparable to injection?

[JasonUT]

@Lolinda

I'd love to find TKA, TPPE and EGRAC tests in the USA. I haven't found any labs that do it. For now, I am having to rely on SpectraCell Micronutrient. It seems some people love SpectraCell and others aren't so sure.

 

[Learner1]

I have had both SpectraCell and Genova Diagnostics NutrEval.

I find SpectraCell to be an exercise in frustration as its missing so much information that's on the NutrEval which has been essential in determining which processes aren't functioning and how to optimize nutrients to support them. My family has used it for 9 years and it has provided a great deal of help.

During case studies at a major conference of functional medicine doctors, most used NutrEval, but no one used SpectraCell. They used OAT tests so patients could save money (with a lot less info) and the HDRI Methylation Panel, which can be quite useful if you have someone who can properly interpret it, but again the info is limited.

 

[tango]

I had B1 deficiency on my OAT test and I have been using lipothiamine which is combined with ALA.

I'm on my mobile which makes quoting difficult but an earlier poster said
"alpha lipoic acid drains B1 and is dangerous on thiamine deficiency" so it seems strange that it should be combined. Especially as this product is recommended by Derrick Lonsdale who is a pioneer in thiamine research and helped formulate allithiamine and lipothiamine.
Having read the post linked under the comment it would appear that the ALA isn't a problem???

I have some benfotiamine so I may try popping some in water or lotion and try the transdermal route. I'm not in the USA and don't have access to the transketolase tests but I do well on thiamine, it's low on the OAT and my symptoms match so it seems a good idea to try and find ways to improve absorption of thiamine.

 

[Hanna]

I had B1 deficiency on my OAT test and I have been using lipothiamine which is combined with ALA.

I'm on my mobile which makes quoting difficult but an earlier poster said
"alpha lipoic acid drains B1 and is dangerous on thiamine deficiency" so it seems strange that it should be combined. Especially as this product is recommended by Derrick Lonsdale who is a pioneer in thiamine research and helped formulate allithiamine and lipothiamine.
Having read the post linked under the comment it would appear that the ALA isn't a problem???

I have some benfotiamine so I may try popping some in water or lotion and try the transdermal route. I'm not in the USA and don't have access to the transketolase tests but I do well on thiamine, it's low on the OAT and my symptoms match so it seems a good idea to try and find ways to improve absorption of thiamine.

@tango, you have now on iherb allithiamine from the same producter as lipothiamine (cardiovascular research group/ecological formulas)
and on the contrary to lipothiamine which includes ALA, there is no ALA.
See from iherb site :


Amount Per Serving %Daily Value*
Thiamine (TTFD)
(as thiamin tetrahydrofurfuryl disulfide) 50 mg 2467%
Calcium (as dicalcium phosphate) 75 mg 8%
Phosphorus (as dicalcium phosphate) 58 mg 6%

 

[Gondwanaland]

an earlier poster said
"alpha lipoic acid drains B1 and is dangerous on thiamine deficiency" so it seems strange that it should be combined.

I think they are synergists and, as long they are taken together in the proportions of this specific supplement, ALA shouldn't be a problem. Obviously taking extra B1 shouldn't be a problem either in this context.

 

[tango]

@tango, you have now on iherb allithiamine from the same producter as lipothiamine (cardiovascular research group/ecological formulas)
and on the contrary to lipothiamine which includes ALA, there is no ALA.
See from iherb site :


Amount Per Serving %Daily Value*
Thiamine (TTFD)
(as thiamin tetrahydrofurfuryl disulfide) 50 mg 2467%
Calcium (as dicalcium phosphate) 75 mg 8%
Phosphorus (as dicalcium phosphate) 58 mg 6%

Thanks, I saw the allithiamine but I keep away from calcium supplementation. I find it overstimulating and b1 needs magnesium which I can't tolerate. Adding calcium further upsets the magnesium calcium ratios and as supplementing magnesium makes me extremely agitated and lowers my already low blood pressure I have to stick with getting magnesium only from foods.

Hopefully that will change over time but I've tried extremely low doses of magnesium, transdermal oils and mineral drops and have had bad reactions to them all

 

[tango]

I think they are synergists and, as long they are taken together in the proportions of this specific supplement, ALA shouldn't be a problem. Obviously taking extra B1 shouldn't be a problem either in this context.

Ah! That makes sense thank you.

I took a break from lipothiamine but I need to start it again. I'm not sure my body likes ALA but I like the fact that this supplement is enteric coated and supposedly better absorbed.

 

[tango]

Has anyone tried transdermal benfotiamine? According to someone who knows more about this than I do the absorption depends on the molecular weight of the vitamin and some are not easily absorbed via the skin without manipulation.

I'm keen to try some non oral forms of thiamine

Had anyone tried these thiamine patches? Pretty expensive but if they worked...
http://www.gfeglobal.com/mosquito-guard-by-ecotrap-transdermal-patch/

 

[tango]

@Lolinda

I'd love to find TKA, TPPE and EGRAC tests in the USA. I haven't found any labs that do it. For now, I am having to rely on SpectraCell Micronutrient. It seems some people love SpectraCell and others aren't so sure.

Did you ever track down the Thiamine tests?

 

[JasonUT]

@tango

I have not found a lab that can do TKA, TPPE and EGRAC tests in the USA. I continue to use SpectraCell. You can see my comparison results in post #89. Overall, my health continues to improve incredibly slowly. I would estimate I currently operating at 80-90% of my old healthy self.

 

[tango]

@tango

I have not found a lab that can do TKA, TPPE and EGRAC tests in the USA. I continue to use SpectraCell. You can see my comparison results in post #89. Overall, my health continues to improve incredibly slowly. I would estimate I currently operating at 80-90% of my old healthy self.

My old self has never been 80-90% but if i got back to 80-90% of even my previous below par functioning i would be ecstatic!!!

It's interesting that you have different deficiencies each time. Kind of weird if you are taking a balanced supplement program. Do you think your b1 deficiency symptoms have disappeared? I have a lot of autonomic dysfunction along with the pain, fatigue and mood issues.

i have never noticed any improvement with high dose lipothiamine. Was it immediate or did it take a while to kick in? I don't know if it agrees with me. I don't know if it's the ALA or the fact it's from garlic (i was starting to smell of garlic) but it seemed useless. Every now and then I take a break from it and then try it again but really can't see a difference.

Benfotiamine seems to help or at least it did. Maybe I need to take more or try a different brand.

I'm outside of the USA so I don't think I would spend the $$ on the spectracell - unless it's as reliable as the transketolase tests? I'm pretty sure that Lonsdale and Marrs said those tests aren't as good but i guess it's better to have something as a guideline. I did a Genova test. Maybe I will do it again but by the time I paid for international shipping it was expensive. Someone said the Great Plains test is better but i don't know if that's true. Great Plains measures oxalates which some people find helpful

 

[JasonUT]

Do you think your b1 deficiency symptoms have disappeared?

They haven't disappeared, but they continue to improve and easier to manage.

Was it immediate or did it take a while to kick in?

Immediate. I took my first 50 mg dose at breakfast and went back to bed to lay down. About 30 minutes later I felt this rush of calm come over me and felt like I was sinking into the mattress. It felt like a drug. It was amazing. After a couple days I moved to 50 mg BID. One dose at breakfast and one dose at dinner. Each time I continued to have the same feeling after 30 minutes: calm, sinking, relaxing feeling. This lead me to theorize that my serum level was dropping and raising with each dose. I eventually moved to 100 mg 4x per day and that smoothed out that feeling throughout the day. Overall the improvements have been extremely slow. Figuring out the correct combo and form of B1 and B3, which were my "functional" deficiencies, made the biggest difference.

 

[tango]

They haven't disappeared, but they continue to improve and easier to manage.


Immediate. I took my first 50 mg dose at breakfast and went back to bed to lay down. About 30 minutes later I felt this rush of calm come over me and felt like I was sinking into the mattress. It felt like a drug. It was amazing. After a couple days I moved to 50 mg BID. One dose at breakfast and one dose at dinner. Each time I continued to have the same feeling after 30 minutes: calm, sinking, relaxing feeling. This lead me to theorize that my serum level was dropping and raising with each dose. I eventually moved to 100 mg 4x per day and that smoothed out that feeling throughout the day. Overall the improvements have been extremely slow. Figuring out the correct combo and form of B1 and B3, which were my "functional" deficiencies, made the biggest difference.

I sure would love something with immediate benefits! Having said that some vitamins do have immediate benefits. I like b2 and I seem okay on thiamine and benfotiamine. I am going to try lipothiamine again. I could do with some calming as I am extremely agitated. I can meditate and 5 minutes later for no reason at all the anxiety and agitation starts!

I think straight thiamine is more calming for me than lipothiamine but I’m going to watch more closely now and try taking it without other supplements so it doesn’t confuse things.

I can’t take niacin. My blood pressure is low and niacin drops it

When I increase the dose of lipothiamine I start stinking of garlic. I can smell it coming out of my pores.

Okay just popped number 2 pill of lipothiamine for the day. Bring on the calm!

 

[xyzthrowaway]

@sb4 @Sidereal @JasonUT @tango

I know this is a really old thread but do you guys still take transdermal/oral thiamine?

 

[sb4]

@sb4 @Sidereal @JasonUT @tango

I know this is a really old thread but do you guys still take transdermal/oral thiamine?

I do on and off. It is weird though. Think i build a tolerance of it.

In 2016 when I first used it properly I noticed a significant improvement in post (carb) meal symptoms. I used in high dose for a couple of months then went off it to get transketolase B1 blood test. I noticed that I didn't notice much difference coming off it and my bloods came back with thiamine within range. So I used it on and off without noticing much.

Anyway, earlier this year I noticed my symptoms post carb meals seemed to be getting worse and worse. I had been off thiamine for quite some time at this point. I read about a different form of thiamine (sublingual) and decided to give it a try. I again noticed a significant improvement in post carb symptoms. Before I would get significantly worse heart pounding in the hours post prandial and generally feeling even worse. When I started up the thiamine the first few days my heart pounding was noticably reduced and I had a feeling of calm after taking them which is very rare for me, I am usually wired and unable to properly relax. This feeling only lasted for a couple of days (lasting an hour or so after dosing) before it went away completely. However the overall lessening of heart pounding maintained mostly.

I should do more proper experiments with it. Now I just take some when I eat a more carb heavy meal and just hope it is doing something. I think my body builds some kind of tolerance to it. That or I use B1 faster for some reason and repleting it with high dose lasts me for a few months but that wouldn't explain the relaxation effect.

I read somewhere that high dose thiamine has a drug like affect in activating PDH. If this is the case perhaps the body can compensate this increase via some mechanism, bringing it down closer to its default low level.

 

[Florida Guy]

For peripheral neuropathy I found that taking glutamine helped a lot. I would take a teaspoon full per day and after a few days it would work. I still take it many days to keep the pn away