Iodine protocol, any experiences?

[yellowspain]

Hello. After trying Fredd's methylation protocol, which worked for a few weeks, it stopped working. As a result, I performed some tests and my thyroid was altered. In a hair mineral analysis, my iodine, selenium and molybdenum are low.

According to Greg (b12 oils), these minerals are necessary for thyroid function and the activation of vitamin b12.

Apart from reading and learning about Greg's protocol, I have read about the iodine protocol and the book "Iodine Crisis", I have seen that there are doctors specialized in iodine and thyroid and I would like to know if any of them have had any experience with it.


* This illness is a lonely path: I send you a hug.

 

[drmullin30]

Hello. After trying Fredd's methylation protocol, which worked for a few weeks, it stopped working. As a result, I performed some tests and my thyroid was altered. In a hair mineral analysis, my iodine, selenium and molybdenum are low.

According to Greg (b12 oils), these minerals are necessary for thyroid function and the activation of vitamin b12.

Apart from reading and learning about Greg's protocol, I have read about the iodine protocol and the book "Iodine Crisis", I have seen that there are doctors specialized in iodine and thyroid and I would like to know if any of them have had any experience with it.


* This illness is a lonely path: I send you a hug.

I did high dose Iodine protocol for a little over a year several years ago and had pretty good results for a while. I got up to 15 mg per day.

Eventually, I went into hyperthyroid symptoms and had to stop. In retrospect that could have been also at least partly due to vitamin B6 toxicity and copper deficiency and not necessarily the iodine but I have never gone back to high dose iodine as my thyroid function is still very good so I only take a maintenance dose of 250 mcg/day now.

As I always tell people now, be very careful with pyridoxine or any form of B6 as it is a neurotoxin and can cause serious neurological damage in susceptible people.

There were lots of detox symptoms from high dose iodine including terrible cystic acne (halide elimination maybe?) but overall my mood, energy and immune system greatly improved. I stopped feeling cold and depressed all the time and I also definitely was able to cut back on b12 supplements. I also had increased need for selenium, magnesium, calcium, potassium and copper.

I use a much gentler approach overall now to supplementation and concentrate on diet as my primary healing modality but in the beginning when I was feeling very bad I was willing to do more extreme things and high dose iodine was one of them. Overall I have no regrets and I think that iodine deficiency is probably widespread and that getting your body storage of iodine into optimal range is an overall health benefit.

 

[Wayne]

I have read about the iodine protocol and the book "Iodine Crisis"

Hi @yellowspain -- I too read the book Iodine Crisis, and thought it was excellent. Reading it was part of a fairly intensive effort on my part to delve into the world of iodine deficiencies, and how they can play out in people's lives, particularly pwME/CFS. I did a fairly lengthy summation of some of what I learned, and posted it at the following link:

Iodine and Apoptosis - Implications For Immunity, Autoimmunity, Leaky Gut, Methylation, Cancer, etc.​

 

[datadragon]

As I always tell people now, be very careful with pyridoxine or any form of B6 as it is a neurotoxin and can cause serious neurological damage in susceptible people.

It was recently found that the pyridoxine form of Vitamin B6 competitively inhibits the active form pyridoxal-5′-phosphate. Consequently, vitamin B6 supplementation with Pyridoxine at higher levels can cause a Vitamin B6 decreased function or deficiency. Also, Pyridoxine is the toxic form of vitamin B6 so care to avoid higher doses seems prudent based on the current research. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0887233317301959

I did high dose Iodine protocol for a little over a year several years ago and had pretty good results for a while. I got up to 15 mg per day. Overall I have no regrets and I think that iodine deficiency is probably widespread and that getting your body storage of iodine into optimal range is an overall health benefit.

In countries where iodine has been added to table salt, the rates of autoimmune thyroid disease have risen and many other studies show goiter and hypothyroidism as well with excess and not just deficiency. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20453397/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22205314/

Its also been shown that 400-2000 increased hypothyroid dose dependent - the more iodine you took, the more likely to get hypothyroid. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22205314/

This is because Iodine REDUCES the activity of an enzyme called thyroid peroxidase (TPO). TPO is required for proper thyroid hormone production and higher levels of iodine can increase the autoimmune attack on the thyroid as well.

Supplemental selenium alleviates the toxic effects of excessive iodine on thyroid. Excessive iodine intake is associated with a decrease of the activities of selenocysteine-containing enzymes. In fact, supplemental selenium actually alleviates the toxic effects of excessive iodine increasing the urinary excretion of iodine and prevents the triggering and flaring of autoimmune disease that excess iodine without selenium can cause and selenium is needed for T4 to T3 conversion along with zinc. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20517655/​

Our bodies are a balance beam and all the recent research so far seems to indicate that both deficiency <150mcg or so AS WELL AS excess amounts of Iodine >400mcg or so have negative effects on our thyroid normally from what I found.

natural autoantibodies (aAb) with antagonistic properties to SELENOP uptake have been identified in healthy subjects, and in patients with thyroid disease which can therefore contribute if they are lowering selenoproteins such as from a excessive iodine level for that reason imo. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2213231722001185

however I can see others have mentioned good short term experience with higher dose so I looked further. Mercury can migrate to the thyroid gland and sit on one or more of the thyroid's 4 iodine receptors blocking the iodine from reaching the receptors and activating the thyroid. When this happens iodine is not absorbed in normal amounts by the thyroid gland and iodine may help in those regards possibly a bit more to detox some of the bromide, flouride, and mercury competing with the use of iodine taking along with selenium. Mercury also binds to selenium which may be more of the issue.

 

[drmullin30]

It was recently found that the pyridoxine form of Vitamin B6 competitively inhibits the active form pyridoxal-5′-phosphate. Consequently, vitamin B6 supplementation with Pyridoxine at higher levels can cause a Vitamin B6 decreased function or deficiency. Also, Pyridoxine is the toxic form of vitamin B6 so care to avoid higher doses seems prudent based on the current research.

I was taking P5P exclusively and still developed small fibre peripheral neuropathy. There are actually three vitamers of B6 and all of them have been shown to be able to cause small fibre peripheral neuropathy and toxicity. In fact, there are many people in the Facebook group "Understanding B6 Toxicity" who developed B6 toxicity symptoms including SFPN from food alone.

Its also been shown that 400-2000 increased hypothyroid dose dependent - the more iodine you took, the more likely to get hypothyroid. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22205314/

This is because Iodine REDUCES the activity of an enzyme called thyroid peroxidase (TPO). TPO is required for proper thyroid hormone production and higher levels of iodine can increase the autoimmune attack on the thyroid as well.

The effect of high iodine causing hypothyroidism is well documented and called The Wolff-Chaikoff effect. I may have experienced this at other times when I tried restarting high dose iodine which is why I have never gone back to anything more than a maintenance dose.

I think it's probably necessary to take selenium when supplementing iodine in any amount to maintain the T4 to T2 conversion. However, excess zinc supplementation also contributed to my copper deficiency and hyperthyroid symptoms so one needs to be careful all around.

I also did many rounds of Cutler chelation for mercury with ALA and noticed that as I did that I needed less iodine. I am certain that in the beginning of my iodine protocol I was detox halides including fluoride and bromide, mercury and who knows what else.

Our bodies are a balance beam

I couldn't agree more and I have had to learn the hard way that supplementing high dose anything is not risk free and we need to be very careful with all of this and that it is always very individual with no one size fits all solution. My philosophy now for all supplementation is to take as little as necessary and to monitor changes in my health and physiology very carefully and to stop taking anything if I even suspect an issue.

My diet is core of my treatment. No grains, no sugar, no alcohol, no dairy, no nuts, no seed oils (e.g. hateful 8) no refined foods of any kind. I only eat unrefined meat (no pork or farmed fish), eggs and fresh fruit and vegetables and ancient sea salt. I also avoid all pharmaceutical products and haven't had so much as a Tylenol in well over a decade. I don't even use toothpaste I use baking soda and peroxide. This has helped me reduce my supplement intake dramatically and I take RDI of a few B-vitamins and minerals now. Iodine and selenium I still take along with magnesium and calcium. Folate, B2 and B12 I take in slightly higher doses but also I take breaks.

 

[datadragon]

I was taking P5P exclusively and still developed small fibre peripheral neuropathy. There are actually three vitamers of B6 and all of them have been shown to be able to cause small fibre peripheral neuropathy and toxicity. In fact, there are many people in the Facebook group "Understanding B6 Toxicity" who developed B6 toxicity symptoms including SFPN from food alone.

Yes, The pyridoxine form is the main issue however it appears that zinc and magnesium are cofactors needed to facilitate Vitamin B6 entry into the cell for example so that may be why its also not being utilized fully even taking the active form P5P during inflammation/infection. Under inflammatory conditions zinc uptake/absorption is lowered as well as made less available for the body to utilize.

The Alkaline Phosphatase (ALPL) Locus Is Associated with B6 Vitamer Levels in CSF and Plasma. Transport across the cell membrane is preceded by hydrolysis of the phosphorylated B6 vitamers by membrane-bound alkaline phosphatase (ALPL) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6357176/

PLP (P5P) cannot cross the cell membrane and circulating PLP first becomes dephosphorylated to PL by tissue-resident alkaline phosphatases, then, upon entry into the cell, all B6 forms are rapidly phosphorylated by pyridoxal kinase (PDXK). Phosphorylation captures the intracellular vitamin B6 and then a second enzyme, pyridoxine 5-phosphate oxidase (PNPO), converts PNP into the bioactive form PLP. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022316623019326

Prior to tissue uptake, PLP is dissociated from the plasma albumin and dephosphorylated to facilitate entry into the cell. It is then rephosphorylated after cell entry. Interconversion between PLP and PMP occurs within the tissues. Transport across the cell membrane is preceded by hydrolysis of the phosphorylated B6 vitamers by membrane-bound alkaline phosphatase (ALPL). Alkaline phosphatases are a group of isoenzymes, located on the outer layer of the cell membrane; they catalyze the hydrolysis of organic phosphate esters present in the extracellular space. Zinc and magnesium are important co-factors of this enzyme. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6357176/

Hypophosphatasia is normally due to genetic mutations of the tissue non-specific alkaline phosphatase (TNSALP) however Zinc is a cofactor of TNSALP and so as mentioned before its usually due to zinc unavailability or deficiency that leads to problems with active B6 utilization beyond just its convesion to the active form so taking active form b6 still may not work properly is possible in a high inflammation/infection state in the presence of pro inflammatory cytokines. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S8756328223001825

I think it's probably necessary to take selenium when supplementing iodine in any amount to maintain the T4 to T2 conversion. However, excess zinc supplementation also contributed to my copper deficiency and hyperthyroid symptoms so one needs to be careful all around.

Yes iodine appears to be in balance with seleniium such as selenium increasing the urinary excretion of iodine from the research above. Other nutrients like zinc are balanced with copper so as you found this can cause imbalances when experimenting with excessive doses.

I couldn't agree more and I have had to learn the hard way that supplementing high dose anything is not risk free and we need to be very careful with all of this and that it is always very individual with no one size fits all solution.

Some nutrients have effets on other nutrients kind of like see-saws such as the copper/zinc example, while they also can be involved in the metabolism for other nutrients. In other words if you are missing one nutrient it could negatively affect the function of many others (such as low zinc with Vitamin A, B6, Vitamin D VDR functions etc).

 

[yellowspain]

Hola @yellowspain: yo también leí el libro Iodine Crisis y me pareció excelente. Su lectura fue parte de un esfuerzo bastante intenso por mi parte para adentrarme en el mundo de las deficiencias de yodo y cómo pueden afectar la vida de las personas, en particular las que padecen EM/SFC. Hice un resumen bastante extenso de parte de lo que aprendí y lo publiqué en el siguiente enlace:

Yodo y apoptosis: implicaciones para la inmunidad, autoinmunidad, intestino permeable, metilación, cáncer, etc.​

Hi @yellowspain -- I too read the book Iodine Crisis, and thought it was excellent. Reading it was part of a fairly intensive effort on my part to delve into the world of iodine deficiencies, and how they can play out in people's lives, particularly pwME/CFS. I did a fairly lengthy summation of some of what I learned, and posted it at the following link:

Iodine and Apoptosis - Implications For Immunity, Autoimmunity, Leaky Gut, Methylation, Cancer, etc.​

Hello. Thanks for answering, I have read your post. I plan to start iodine supplementation following Greg's guidelines. I will update, in case it helps someone. I have been looking for a doctor who specializes in iodine, but there is none in my country.

 

[drmullin30]

Some nutrients have effets on other nutrients kind of like see-saws such as the copper/zinc example, while they also can be involved in the metabolism for other nutrients. In other words if you are missing one nutrient it could negatively affect the function of many others (such as low zinc with Vitamin A, B6, Vitamin D VDR functions etc).

Yes this makes the whole process more complex and difficult to manage which is why I concentrate on diet now as the body is much more capable of performing the balancing act with food than with artificial supplements. I use this website to help understand the synergy and antagonism between supplements. https://acu-cell.com/

so as mentioned before its usually due to zinc unavailability or deficiency that leads to problems with active B6 utilization beyond just its convesion to the active form so taking active form b6 still may not work properly is possible in a high inflammation/infection state in the presence of pro inflammatory cytokines.

I was taking plenty of zinc and magnesium with B6. At a high enough dose no matter what cofactors you take if you overdose on B6 you will develop neuropathy. This was demonstrated in several studies as pyridoxine is a neurotoxin in sufficient amounts.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/...uld include,neurologic injury to an extremity.

 

[Wayne]

I use this website to help understand the synergy and antagonism between supplements. https://acu-cell.com/

Hi @drmullin30 -- Thanks for posting that link, looks like an interesting and helpful website. Just bookmarked it and will be keeping it in mind going forward.

 

[datadragon]

I was taking plenty of zinc and magnesium with B6. At a high enough dose no matter what cofactors you take if you overdose on B6 you will develop neuropathy. This was demonstrated in several studies as pyridoxine is a neurotoxin in sufficient amounts.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/...uld include,neurologic injury to an extremity.

Yes, it mentions the research I posted about how paradoxically the most common symptoms associated with vitamin B6 toxicity are similar to those with vitamin B6 deficiency related to taking excessive doses of the Pyridoxine form. In other words, Supplementation with high concentrations of the pyridoxine form of Vitamin B6 competitively inhibits the active Pyridoxal 5' phosphate (P5P) form which actually leads to decreased vitamin B6 function rather than enhancing it.. Also, Pyridoxine is shown to also be the toxic form of vitamin B6 so care to avoid higher doses seems prudent based on the current research.

Naturally you would be able to convert at lower levels if you have adequate cofactors however under states of inflammtion/infection those cofactors such as magnesium zinc and b vitamins (b2 in this case) are lowered as well. It was just also interesting that zinc and magnesium seem to be further required for its entry into the cell and utilization. Therefore taking active form b6 still may not work properly is possible in a high inflammation/infection state in the presence of pro inflammatory cytokines as it would not be utilized properly with the lowered cofactors to do so normally based on the above research. Vitamin B6 normally needs Zinc, Magnesium, and Vitamin B2 (flavin mononucleotide (FMN); also known as riboflavin-5’-phosphate) in the conversion to active B6 (P5P).