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Interesting results supplementing copper, but also side effects

datadragon

Senior Member
Messages
404
Location
USA
Liver becomes toxic at high doses due to the level of copper, not B12.

Beef liver is a good bioavailable form of copper normally in low amounts due to including the cofactors such as Vitamin A and Zinc, which is what is missing in supplements usually to make ceruloplasmin. However, Vitamin A can be toxic if consumed in large amounts, because it accumulates in the body. I posted that I found this is specifically due to not being able to convert Vitamin A to active forms and then eliminating it such as mentioned toward the bottom here https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...-vitamin-a-retinol-in-that.91474/post-2452441

Unfortunately that requires zinc to convert the vitamin A which becomes an issue during inflammation or infection that is chronic and therefore cant help reduce the potential for vitamin A toxicity. So yes the copper and Vitamin A can both become inflammatory and more problematic during chronic inflammation states taking high doses during that time. Likely better to take small doses daily vs large doses at once.

Thanks! My zinc levels are normal too, I took zinc for several years but after my bad experience with NAC and thiamine which triggered MCAS/Histamine Intolerance I have difficulty taking zinc, even in a small dose of 10mg my neuropathy returns on the same day, I'm going to risk just Vitamin A, I hope it has a positive impact on ceruloplasmin and doesn't trigger my MCAS!
Ok. Zinc is not stored in the body long term so many do become deficient easily then under inflammation or infection it becomes unavailable to utilize fully as normal during that time. However, Zinc is required in multiple steps of FcεRΙ-induced mast cell activation, including degranulation and cytokine production.so it can boost immune/mast cell responses. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6286780/ It also works to boost TH1 immunity (zinc deficiency leads to reduced Th1 immune response), especially when taken with selenium and perhaps added Vitamin A and D. So its more of a balance. In africa they seem to have genetics that favor reduced zinc due to skewing the body naturally more toward TH2 to deal with a geographically local parasite for example so there are also differences among the population genetics as well Blood Type A's also seem to have genetics that favor lower zinc levels as more normal for them as their baseline state I'm looking into.
 
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linusbert

Senior Member
Messages
1,246
Edit: Liver becomes toxic at high doses due to the level of copper, not vitamin A.
are you sure?
1kg beef liver has like 200x RDA and 20x RDA for copper , ca. 30mg
but who eats one kg of liver. if you eat a regular piece of like 100g you get 20x retinol and 2x copper. doesnt seam that high too me.

NAC first for sure, then thiamine some months later.
did you take thiamine in a sulfur form like allithiamine or benfothiamine? if yes i see a pattern, NAC is also sulfur compound. i feel that NAC is stronger with sulfur than benfo (subjective impression).
you could have a intolerance to sulfit. if sulfit is not converting properly to sulfat its a toxic product which can cause/worsen asthma and allergies as the sulfit is provoking the mast cells.
higher doses of molybdenum can help this.
it does so in 2 ways, 1. helps metabolic pathways to convert sulfit to sulfat , 2. in high dose it prevents gut bacteria from producing too much sulfit.
Chris Masterjohn had lately a series of posts about this sulfit problem.
i took it recently and had good results with my diabetes for unknown reason , so it subsided after 5x using.

Ok. Zinc is not stored in the body long term so many do become deficient easily then under inflammation or infection it becomes unavailable to utilize fully as normal during that time
i love this information about the inflammation connection. but what to do against the inflammation?
 
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GreenEdge

Senior Member
Messages
658
Location
Brisbane, Australia
are you sure?
1kg beef liver has like 200x RDA and 20x RDA for copper , ca. 30mg
but who eats one kg of liver. if you eat a regular piece of like 100g you get 20x retinol and 2x copper. doesnt seam that high too me.
I used to cut my liver into ½ inch think strips, and regularly a whole strip. One day I weighed one and it was just over 200g. For fear of overdose I stopped, but I was doing that for months and it never did me any harm.

I now cut liver into 2cm cubes. Anymore than that pushes me out of ketosis.

When I serve my meal I add a frozen raw liver cube and it slowly melts on the plate. By the time I've finished eating it's thawed and I eat it. It's like having a delicious french desert.
 
Messages
31
are you sure?
1kg beef liver has like 200x RDA and 20x RDA for copper , ca. 30mg
but who eats one kg of liver. if you eat a regular piece of like 100g you get 20x retinol and 2x copper. doesnt seam that high too me.


did you take thiamine in a sulfur form like allithiamine or benfothiamine? if yes i see a pattern, NAC is also sulfur compound. i feel that NAC is stronger with sulfur than benfo (subjective impression).
you could have a intolerance to sulfit. if sulfit is not converting properly to sulfat its a toxic product which can cause/worsen asthma and allergies as the sulfit is provoking the mast cells.
higher doses of molybdenum can help this.
it does so in 2 ways, 1. helps metabolic pathways to convert sulfit to sulfat , 2. in high dose it prevents gut bacteria from producing too much sulfit.
Chris Masterjohn had lately a series of posts about this sulfit problem.
i took it recently and had good results with my diabetes for unknown reason , so it subsided after 5x using.


i love this information about the inflammation connection. but what to do against the inflammation?
Benfothiamine, but after MCAS even common thiamine triggers me.

An interesting fact is that I have aphantasia but after a few days using benfotiamine with hydroxocobalamin I was able to conjure up some images in my mind for a few seconds, I've already used hydroxocobalamin alone and it didn't do that.
 

GreenEdge

Senior Member
Messages
658
Location
Brisbane, Australia
are you sure?
1kg beef liver has like 200x RDA and 20x RDA for copper , ca. 30mg
but who eats one kg of liver. if you eat a regular piece of like 100g you get 20x retinol and 2x copper. doesnt seam that high too me.
I've had a change of mind on liver being "toxic" in high amounts. To make sense evolutionary speaking there has to be some control mechanism preventing over consumption or an adaptation enabling us to tolerate it in high amounts.

I eat zero-carb all the time now and that has enabled a sense of calm that has to be experienced to be believed (known as zero-carb zen). If I eat more than a 2cm cube of liver I loose the feeling of calm and I'm more prone to anxiety instead. It's like any amount of carbohydrate and I feel anxious. So it's just not worth it. I think that mechanism is what prevents over consumption of liver, which means it could be toxic in high mounts.

The Paul Saladino video in post #20 argued that liver is okay in large amounts. However Paul Saladino is well known as a fruit eating carnivore, so he could not be in a deep state of ketosis like myself. He would not see the mechanism that prevents over consumption of liver.
 

linusbert

Senior Member
Messages
1,246
i wish i could do this too, but my fat metabolism is fucked up. i degrade pretty fast if i do not have the frequent carbs. it seams when fasting my body isnt using fat much or not efficient but rather sugar and then protein, and if thats exhausted it begins with cramping and crashing.
once in a clinic they put me on diet, so i was still eating every 2 hours, but minor amounts and their lunch was mini... i began to have ketones in blood and urin while still gaining weight. i never gained more weight in my life than in those 6 weeks in that clinic on a very hypocaloric diet.
the doctors couldnt grasp reality, they outright denied its possible to eat frequently especially carbs and be in ketosis. something must be really broke with my metabolism.

i can live with 1000 calories if i just eat carbs, but if i remove from that baseline of 1000 calories the carbs, like 800 calories from carbs, 200 from fats i begin to crash. i can eat 3000 calories of fat and its not worth anything. also i seam to not gain weight from those carbs, i begin to gain weight as soon as i put back fat into this.
 

GreenEdge

Senior Member
Messages
658
Location
Brisbane, Australia
i wish i could do this too, but my fat metabolism is fucked up.
Have you tried eating egg yolk?

By weight, egg yolk is 31% fat. Start small with just 1 a day. Give you gallbladder time to recover.

I'm having good results.
I now eat them 6 at a time, usually twice a day + 1 steak meal. If I eat any more than that I'll get baby shit.
 
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