Inositol deficiency, a literal footnote (for a foot crack!)

[BadBadBear]

It has happened. I have dropped out of hyper/OCD and back into fatigue! No idea why. I had started inositol Oct. 22 so about 2 months for the effect to go away.

I did have thyroid labs done, and all is normal for me (FT4 and FT3 right at mid range, TSH suppressed).

My blood sugar is stunningly low for me. I run around 100 most of the time, and am sitting around 70 post-prandial (after a meal of eggs and some coffee) per my labs.

I am planning to lower my inositol level over the next couple of weeks and see how that goes, and possibly move to taking it in the PM. I am not sure if this is fatigue or sleepiness. It feels like taking too much melatonin (I take .25 mg at night, a pretty low amount). Tried going off of melatonin for a few days but that disrupted my night sleep.

Eczema is still doing great, though I do have a bit of skin cracking, my arms don't feel like alligator hide. According to Freddd's protocol, I am likely having folate deficiency but I am afraid to crank up the amount I'm taking. Hopefully I can lower the inositol and hit a sweet spot, of sorts.

Wish there was a happy medium with these supplements, though I knew the cocaine effect couldn't last.

 

[Wayne]

I have dropped out of hyper/OCD

Congratulations @BadBadBear, that's great news!

 

[Judee]

I have dropped out of hyper/OCD and back into fatigue!

I'm sorry @BadBadBear, that's discouraging to get the fatigue back.

So I ordered some inositol, and just before I got it, I started a trial with Allopurinol to limit my uric acid production (an effect of inosine intake). Allopurinol is a xanthine oxydase inhibitor that sometimes can produce adverse drug reaction, mostly cutaneous, occasionnally in the eye (scleritis).

@pattismith, I posted on one other thread you were contributing to on a similar subject about cherries but I also just did a look up for "xanthine oxidase inhibitor" and this site also mentions that celery and celery seed act as such too.

It says, "Helps manage uric acid by acting as an xanthine oxidase (XO) inhibitor, similar to allopurinol."

Just in case you were looking for some other safe alternatives to that Rx that affected your eyes so badly.

 

[BadBadBear]

I lowered the inositol, and added a bit of sugar in my coffee (in case low blood sugar is partially torpedoing me) and fared much better today! I hope to balance it out.

Fatigue is a possible side effect of inositol, so I suspect as I become replete, I will need less of it to minimize that side effect.

The good thing is, the improvements today were immediate and clear cut. I felt like cleaning a little but didn't go bananas.

 

[pattismith]

@BadBadBear , let's hope you will keep the benefit you had from Inositol.

@Judee , thank you for your information;
For the moment, inositol seems to do the job for me, my blood uric acid dropped under the high normal range.

The problem with plants is that it's not easy to know how much intake you need, and the same plant can have it's efficiency modulated by many factors (it's active ingredients content can vary according to the ground type and sun exposure, etc).

 

[CFS_for_19_years]

@BadBadBear there are articles discussing behavioral changes with large doses of inositol, for example, mania or hypomania. Irritability and obsessive cleaning sound very much like hypomania. Dipping back down to depression the same day would be typical of a mixed state. This affect might only be seen in susceptible individuals, not everyone.

Inositol-induced mania?
http://sci-hub.tw/10.1176/ajp.153.6.839
(Three case examples)

https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/neuroscience/inositol
Under ADHD:

Because of its antidepressant effects, rare episodes of switching into mania have been reported. Patients with symptoms of agitation or depression who take inositol should carefully be monitored for signs of manic or hypomanic symptoms.

Under Anxiety Disorders:

inositol is also associated with a small risk of inducing hypomanic or manic symptoms, and case reports exist of patients ‘switching’ from depressive to manic symptoms (Potter et al., 2009). Careful monitoring of dose/response and adverse effects is necessary.

Under Mania and Agitation:

Because of its antidepressant qualities, some have hypothesized that it may also be beneficial in treating symptoms of bipolar disorder. However, research has shown that individuals in the midst of manic phases actually show an excess of intracellular inositol (Potter et al., 2009), and lithium, an effective mood stabilizer, may exert its clinical effect, in part, by lowering brain levels of inositol or blocking its effects (Agranoff & Stephen, 2001), although some have reported contradictory findings (Belmaker et al., 1996).

Inositol may not only be ineffective, it may exacerbate the symptoms of mania. Because of its antidepressant effects, episodes of switching into mania have been reported (Potter et al., 2009). It is apparent that patients who exhibit symptoms of depression may benefit from supplementation with inositol, but inositol is not a mood stabilizer and should not be used for this purpose. Those with symptoms of mixed mania may benefit from its use (as an antidepressant, as described in Chapter 6), but will require a mood stabilizer to address the manic portion of the symptoms.

INOSITOL FOR DEPRESSION AND PANIC DISORDER - starting at Page 120
http://www.mentalhealthamerica.net/sites/default/files/MHA_CAM.pdf
Page 125:

However, there have been case reports of inositol-induced mania in bipolar depressed patients.

 

[BadBadBear]

I don't know about irritability or agitation but hypomania is definitely a possibly. If that's what it is, its fairly awesome compared to brainfog and fatigue. Thanks for those links. Definitely good info to keep in mind.

I have sent my updates to my doc and she's following my trial. Hopefully the lower dose will keep working. Had a good productive day, but am resting up now.

 

[jesse's mom]

eggs make my hair fall, drinking OJ (high Inositol) heals my hair loss.

so maybe the folic acid in the OJ helped the hair loss?

It also caused some hormone surges in the first couple of weeks, whew that was fun while it lasted (high sex drive, lol). I have read of other people having that same effect from it.

My husband would be ever so happy!

It seems to have neural effects for me, and energetic effects. My mood is clearly improved and I am having less anhedonia.

That sounds wonderful!

Wondering what will happen when I run out of minutiae to clean?!

You can come to my house! I am not there yet, and again my husband would be so grateful!

I hope you balance out. Best to you and yours!

 

[Gondwanaland]

so maybe the folic acid in the OJ helped the hair loss?

I can easily get a lot of folate from my regular diet, but inositol isn't as widely available.

 

[Iritu1021]

Inositol is supposed to help PCOS sufferers with eczema and its also known to mitigate psoriasis for lithium users. So there seem to be a variety of possible mechanisms causing my skin to heal.

I do wonder if my body is not able to make normal amounts or if I am using an unusual amount. Or perhaps wasting it.

I have noticed it does seem to raise my blood pressure (systolic is up about 10 points) so that's helpful.

or do we have too much neuron firing that makes us waste secondary messengers, like inositol and cAMP??

 

[Iritu1021]

I have not been able to eat eggs, or egg yolks well for ages, but had spontaneously started eating boiled eggs for breakfast the last couple of weeks (and they are not unpalatable, as the yolks usually are). Not sure if this is an inositol side effect? I normally don't consume much choline, kinda makes me nauseous.

BP effect may be improved thyroid function in my case.

It also caused some hormone surges in the first couple of weeks, whew that was fun while it lasted (high sex drive, lol). I have read of other people having that same effect from it.

i added a dose of d-chiro inositol at bedtime and slept well, probably will stay at this dose for a while. ~2500 mg 3x per day plus chiro form at bed.

It seems to actually do stuff, unlike most supplements I've tried! I am interested to see if it prevents my finger skin from splitting this winter, another painful side effect of being ill.

Is d-chiro a superior form of inositol?

 

[BadBadBear]

Is d-chiro a superior form of inositol?

Just different, there are many forms of inositol. IIRC d-chiro has less neurological benefits vs myo form. But they seem to work better in combo from trials. I am just on myo form now, owing to laziness.

I don't have the BP increase on the lower amount which is a bummer.

 

[gumman123]

D chiro is just one of 9 or so forms of inositol. Sesame seeds, and carob are 5% inositol, 1% d chiro inositol. So 10g provides 500mg myo inositol, 100mg d chiro inositol. i think it is the prunus family of foods that have high inositol contents too.

 

[BadBadBear]

IDK about anyone else, but I have to be careful with seeds and nuts, the arginine content causes viral flare ups for me. I'd be afraid to rely on seeds for my inositol since my need is pretty high, apparently.

That said, I think 5g is too much and I'm slightly tipping back toward hypomania. Probably need to drop my PM dose and get back to the 3+g range. I have had this song in my head every waking moment for days, and realized I'm getting a bit OCD as well. I realized this afternoon its probably hypomania threatening.

@Iritu1021 your post on my other thread got me thinking about it.

 

[Iritu1021]

IDK about anyone else, but I have to be careful with seeds and nuts, the arginine content causes viral flare ups for me. I'd be afraid to rely on seeds for my inositol since my need is pretty high, apparently.

That said, I think 5g is too much and I'm slightly tipping back toward hypomania. Probably need to drop my PM dose and get back to the 3+g range. I have had this song in my head every waking moment for days, and realized I'm getting a bit OCD as well. I realized this afternoon its probably hypomania threatening.

@Iritu1021 your post on my other thread got me thinking about it.

Maybe you can offset it with a bit of lithium? It should have the opposite effect to inositol. It's like in "Alice in Wonderland", when you take a bite from different side of the mushroom to find the right balance.

 

[Iritu1021]

D chiro is just one of 9 or so forms of inositol. Sesame seeds, and carob are 5% inositol, 1% d chiro inositol. So 10g provides 500mg myo inositol, 100mg d chiro inositol. i think it is the prunus family of foods that have high inositol contents too.

Interesting... I've definitely had strong craving for sesame seeds during my worst times...

 

[gumman123]

Arginine is in every cell in the body, and makes nitric oxide. Every single food with even 1mg of protein in it has arginine in it. It is classified as semi essential somewhere between non essential, and essential. Lithium is in nuts, seeds, liver, oysters, sea weed, yeast, rice bran.

D chiro inositol supplements are super expensive compared to 10g of sesame seeds. The seeds work out 50 times cheaper.

 

[BadBadBear]

Arginine is in every cell in the body, and makes nitric oxide. Every single food with even 1mg of protein in it has arginine in it. It is classified as semi essential somewhere between non essential, and essential.

None the less, I do much better eating foods with a higher amount of lysine than arginine, and nuts and seeds cause issues for me as the ratio is inverted. I also have issues with toothpaste that contains arginine, almost immediate viral issues. I tried going dairy free recently and didn't think about the arginine balance issue and had a gnarly flare up from coconut milk and seed consumption (was making smoothies and using hemp or chia for fiber). Its a bummer but that was really painful and I have to be especially careful.

 

[gumman123]

Definitely do not take a arginine supplement then. Better do blood/urine amino acids, and whole genome sequencing to find out if you have a one of a kind super rare arginine genetic disease too.

 

[gumman123]

When I took inositol supplement it gave me bad diahrea but i can handle sesame seeds just fine.