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Inner sense of bodily tremor

jesse's mom

Senior Member
Messages
6,795
Location
Alabama USA
I have had trembling inside for about the last three years. Never happens in the few hours before I wake up, always after I have been up for a few hours. It seems to me, it is right before a crash. When I feel it I go lay all the way down and breathe.

I think I also know a vibration feeling right as I am falling asleep right after my meditation, and what some people call prayer. I am at that point reaching out and being open to spirit asking for healing or whatever I need. now that feeling is different with chill bumps on my skin and I can pop right out of that.

I cannot seem to pop out of inner trembling feeling this type I have explained away as just part of CFS/ME.
 

Wolfcub

Senior Member
Messages
7,089
Location
SW UK
I wish I could even pretend I were that in tune with the 'higher me' to approach the astral plane..! Alas, I am very much bound to Earth :meh::sleep:

Going out of body can happen to really down to earth "ordinary" people....it happened to me and I didn't even believe in it! First time 1980. I used to make jokes about it because it sounded highly unlikely to me, and probably an imaginary thing. Oh no -when it happens it feels real and quite "physical" in a way.
Oh dear....derailed my own thread again....(tell me to shut up.) :D:rolleyes:
 

Wolfcub

Senior Member
Messages
7,089
Location
SW UK
I have had trembling inside for about the last three years. Never happens in the few hours before I wake up, always after I have been up for a few hours. It seems to me, it is right before a crash. When I feel it I go lay all the way down and breathe.


I cannot seem to pop out of inner trembling feeling this type I have explained away as just part of CFS/ME.

I never get it straight after waking up either. Or very rarely. So that's what makes me think it's a deep level exhaustion. That maybe we do get some slight benefit from sleep and when that's worn off, the cellular level exhaustion hits. For me it can be as little as two hours after waking up, but has been less.
It feels like being very over-caffeinated even if I haven't had a coffee.
 

bjl218

Senior Member
Messages
145
Location
Chelmsford, Massachusetts
Yep. I have this. 99.9% of the time it happens when I'm asleep or drifting off to sleep or just waking up (especially in the early morning). And I also think that they can be worse when I've over-exerted. I've spent quite a bit of time trying to figure out what causes this without any luck. I suspect that there's not just one root cause. Even a couple of neurologists that I've seen have never heard of this except one who said, "It's just anxiety..." No, it's not just anxiety...

I've noticed that when I experience these vibrations, they seem to centered around my diaphragm. In fact, very often it feels like my diaphragm has tightened up and it's every so slightly more difficult for me to breath. I have had problems with reflux in the past and I do have a hiatal hernia. I also know that some alternative practitioners believe that hiatal hernias are more serious than they're given credit for. And since the vagus nerve passes right through that area, hiatal hernias can result in a number of odd symptoms. So I developed a theory that (at least in my case), the hiatal hernia or the acid reflux was irritating the vagus nerve resulting in this feeling of tremors. Why this seems to happen only during sleep onset I can't explain. Maybe it has something to do with whatever the nervous system is doing during sleep phase transition. As one of the top sleep neurologists in the country once said to me, "Lots of weird stuff happens during sleep." Not very helpful.

Since I had a feeling that this might be related to reflux and or general GI problems, I went to see a gastroenterologist at Mass General hospital in Boston. One of the top centers for gastroenterology. I really was going only to see how bad my reflux was. The doctor took my history and asked if there were any other symptoms I wanted to tell him about. So I figured what the heck and told him about my "vibrations." I almost fainted or cried (or both) when he said, "Oh yeah, I know what that is." He called it "visceral hypersensitivity" which is a neurological condition in which nerves associated various organs become overly sensitive. After some testing it was determined that my acid reflux was actually extremely minor which he said confirmed his suspicion about VH. He said that no one knows why this happens. His treatment is to use low doses of different nueromodulators like gabapentin or amitriptylene and also acid blockers. I didn't want to try any of these, but the vibrations were really ruining my quality of life. So right now, I'm on 300mg of gabapentin and 20mg of amitriptylene. Both help me to sleep and they definitely reduce the intensity of the vibrations. These are not drugs I really wanted to take (I'm very anti-pharma), but I didn't think I had a choice at this point.

If you Google for "sleep vibrations" or "sleep tremors" you'll come up with a surprising number of hits. I've been participating in a thread that has been active for the last 10 years. You can find it here if you're interested: https://www.medhelp.org/posts/Sleep-Disorders/tremors-during-sleep/show/476754. Towards the end, you'll see some posts of mine with information that I've learned here.

So far, there's some commonality among the folks I've spoken with. Most of them had this happen after some illness/infection. Many of them definitely had GI problems/gut dysbiosis. So I suspect that this is a neurological condition brought on by some sort of nutritional deficiency. As many of you may know, lack of certain B vitamins can cause neurological issues. Maybe this is one of those issues. In my case, I recently discovered that I was very low in most of the B vitamins and I definitely have some GI problems.

Sorry for the long post, but I'm hoping that this level of detail will be helpful to those looking for solutions to this problem.
 

lafarfelue

Senior Member
Messages
433
Location
Australia
@bjl218 that's so interesting! Please, no need to apologise, I think your post here will be helpful to a lot of people.

The vagus nerve aspect is fascinating; as well as upping my Bs I was taking oregano oil to help sort out dysbiosis (I cycle oregano oil every couple of weeks and thought little of it)... so those combined could've been more the issue for me than the Bs alone.

About to check out that decade long medhelp thread for more information.

Glad you have some quality of life returned to you by taking those drugs. I hope you can sleep a bit better each night :)
 
Messages
88
I've been through this. It would sometimes occur during the day but would be very severe at night. At first, I controlled it by using sublingual P5P at night, but that quit working. It was so severe at night that I had to find a solution. Even though I don't know what seizures feel like, I would feel certain that I was about to have one. It also caused me a lot of sleepless nights. Now I can treat it with calcium. I find calcium seems to be very soothing to my central nervous system. Ironically, I need calcium to stay awake during the day and calcium to sleep at night. The 1st time I took a dose of calcium (at 100% of the RDA), I felt like I had been shot with a tranquilizer dart. Luckily, it was evening, and I crawled into bed with my clothes on and slept better than I had in years.

It seems like the transition between wake and sleep is tricky. I've read that it's when a person is most likely to have a seizure. Also, some people have myoclonic jerks and hypnopompic/hypnogogic hallucinations; I've experienced these but not seizures (that I know of).

There also seems to be some connection to acetylcholine (ACh). I have similar responses to supplements that boost acetylcholine and calcium supplements. I need both and for very similar symptoms, but I cannot tease out where low ACh symptoms end and low calcium symptoms begin. I'm doing well on both, but certain supplements (like vitamin A or K2) will trigger symptoms that I can barely supplement my way out of and will take me a few days of supplement use to recover from, and again, I can't tell if it is because these supplements are pulling so much calcium into my bones or if they are using up ACh. I also think it's quite likely that I'm overlooking something. For example, why does my body not just pull calcium from bone when it needs it? There may be something necessary for my parathyroid to work that I'm missing?

The buzzing/vibration feels so awful when it's bad, and it would even make me nauseated sometimes. I hope everyone can find something that works for them.
 
Messages
88
@pamojja Yes, I have tested for that in the past, but I cannot take vitamin D until I'm able to take vitamin A & K2. I've had 3 teeth break on vitamin D supplementation, so I'm not comfortable taking vitamin D alone. There's something really wrong with my calcium metabolism, and I would love to take the fat-soluble vitamins to help fix it, but I seem unable to retain calcium at the cellular/mitochondrial/muscular level, and I need to try to fix that first (which I don't even know if that's possible). When I take the fat-soluble vitamins together, my calcium needs are outrageous.
 

pamojja

Senior Member
Messages
2,397
Location
Austria
When I take the fat-soluble vitamins together, my calcium needs are outrageous.

Interesting. At the beginning of supplementing vitamin D3 10 years ago (and getting levels sustained from sun, but that only seem to start to work recently) serum calcium had been consistently below normal, but then were raised to perfectly normal all by sufficient 25(OH)D levels 2 years later them self. Never had difficulty tolerating vitamin A or K2. However, probably the much higher vitamin D pushed a sub-clinical Magnesium deficiency into very severe, and I had to take in average 1.5 g/d of oral elemental Magnesium just to avoid most severe painful muscle-cramps. Only Magnsiumsulfate IVs since November last year (additional to 2.5 g/d oral elemental supplemented Mg now) ceased the cramps completely.

How we are all so different.
 
Messages
88
Yes, I get no relief from magnesium. I get severe muscle spasms that are relieved by calcium, but that's at a more extreme level of depletion. At levels of minor depletion, I have the tremors/vibration/buzzing sensation so I rarely let it progress past that.
 
Messages
88
I think it's possible that, if solve this calcium issue, I'll no longer be ill. I think the mitochondria are supposed to stockpile calcium to some degree, but I'm not sure how the calcium is held there, and if it keeps being stolen away to maintain serum levels? Considering the way calcium boosts my energy levels, I wouldn't be surprised if the mitochondria are pretty happy to have it. I've been struggling with low calcium the past couple days triggered by high dose biotin, and I can't imagine how biotin would deplete calcium.
 

pamojja

Senior Member
Messages
2,397
Location
Austria
I think it's possible that, if solve this calcium issue, I'll no longer be ill.

Thought so about my magnesium deficiency too. Though a number of issues are now very slowly improving (dream-recall, hormones..) ..still a long way for me.

I've been struggling with low calcium the past couple days triggered by high dose biotin, and I can't imagine how biotin would deplete calcium.

Honestly, can't think of any way calcium could be absorbed without sufficient vitamin D3 alone.

https://lpi.oregonstate.edu/mic/minerals/calcium
 
Messages
88
Yes, I majored in nutritional science with a biochemical focus for 2 years until I switched majors, so I know that calcium requires vitamin D for absorption. It is summer here, and I'm definitely absorbing calcium because I can feel a huge difference after taking it, so I don't feel my vitamin D is low enough to affect calcium absorption.
 
Messages
88
I don't document how much daily or plan for a specific amount. I take it when I get low calcium symptoms.
 

bjl218

Senior Member
Messages
145
Location
Chelmsford, Massachusetts
Never thought about calcium to address this. I guess I always figured that calcium opposes magnesium which is the "calming" mineral and calming must be what I need to deal with the vibrations. And so I typically supplement with lots of magnesium.

It also occurs to me that my vibrations may have started (and/or gotten worse) after I completely gave up dairy and didn't necessarily substitute other food sources of calcium. So I'll give calcium supplementation a try and see what happens.

Of course, if I'm experiencing some sort of malabsorption due to GI issues, this would also be a contributor.

@SherDa , your experience with ACh supplements is also interesting because one would think that increasing Ach would have the opposite effect. In fact, anticholinergics (like some antihistamines and, in my case amitriptylene), help to reduce my vibrations. Either that or they just help me sleep through them
 
Last edited:
Messages
88
Never thought about calcium to address this. I guess I always figured that calcium opposes magnesium which is the "calming" mineral and calming must be what I need to deal with the vibrations. And so I typically supplement with lots of magnesium.

It also occurs to me that my vibrations may have started (and/or gotten worse) after I completely gave up dairy and didn't necessarily substitute other food sources of calcium. So I'll give calcium supplementation a try and see what happens.

Of course, if I'm experiencing some sort of malabsorption due to GI issues, this would also be a contributor.

@SherDa , your experience with ACh supplements is also interesting because one would think that increasing Ach would have the opposite effect. In fact, anticholinergics (like some antihistamines and, in my case amitriptylene), help to reduce my vibrations. Either that or they just help me sleep through them

As @pamojja kindly pointed out, vitamin D is necessary for calcium absorption, so low calcium probably should be a consideration for anyone who has had vitamin D deficiency and/or anyone with poor calcium intake.

Antihistamines make me a complete zombie. I suspect the difficulties I have with transition to sleep are due to low ACh. I need to take ACh supplements 3-4 times a day to stay productive and happy. I'm a dumb, worthless mess without them.

But, as always, if you suspect you are low in a specific nutrient, it's probably best to read up about the deficiency symptoms and safety considerations for supplementation. The link @pamojja shared is a good resource, and I actually contribute money to the LPI occasionally. They sometimes seem a bit conservative with their deficiency symptoms though.
 

bjl218

Senior Member
Messages
145
Location
Chelmsford, Massachusetts
Just a quick status update. I just got the results of my latest NutrEval and GI Effects tests. Once again, the NutrEval shows that I'm very low in all the B vitamins even though I've been supplementing with Life Extension Mix Powder for a few months now. There are other markers in the NutrEval that suggest malabsorption issues. The GI Effects test also shows a few indicators suggesting malabsorption. So given malabsorption of key nutrients, all kinds of "weird stuff" can happen including neuropathies. And it's my theory that this internal tremor/visceral hypersensitivity is a type of neuropathy.

So I guess it's on to figuring out what's causing the malabsorption and how to treat it. I see my functional medicine doc again in a couple of weeks. In the meantime, I'm going to try adding HCL, digestive enzymes, and maybe ox bile a mealtimes to see if this helps.