Impact of social support on the relationship between illness invalidation and shame among individual

[GracieJ]

I remember reading somewhere a while ago (probably a popular psychology book) that most people think they look about 5 years younger than everyone else their age, so in that respect we seem to be just the same as healthy people.

Explains my wierd behavior until the age of four.

In my case, my oldest daughter and I were mistaken for sisters for years. I don't think any of us are making it up out of vanity or anything. There seems to be something to this. It isn't five years, it's more like 10-15, according to others who mistake my age. Figure that one out. How can I be late 30s / early 40s with a 32yo daughter??

How is it that my kid sister ten years younger is now mistaken as the older sibling??

Laugh it up, fuzzball!

 

[Calathea]

Thanks! I did not remember who coined the phrase. I don't generally say it out loud so there's no danger of people mishearing.

Has that happened to you? Or is this just one of those old jokes that I've never heard?

Pretty much every time. That's what happens when you have a degree in English lit with a focus on gender, all your friends are interested in gender and LGBT issues so you all talk about them a lot, but they don't know as much of the theory as you do.

 

[TiredSam]

In my case, my oldest daughter and I were mistaken for sisters for years. I don't think any of us are making it up out of vanity or anything. There seems to be something to this. It isn't five years, it's more like 10-15, according to others who mistake my age. Figure that one out. How can I be late 30s / early 40s with a 32yo daughter??

Laugh it up, fuzzball!

I know there are plenty of people who really look a lot younger than their years, ie women in their fifties who look like they're in their thirties, and I'm very happy for them. I wasn't suggesting such people are being vain or kidding themselves.

I used to think I was young for my age in terms of health and appearance, so found it very interesting when I read that most people think exactly the same about themselves (until then I thought it was just me and I was special). Logically they can't all be right, so the chances are that many of them are under a very common illusion, and that I am to. I don't remember vanity or deliberate making up or anything else so judgemental being offered as the explanation, it was just one item in a list of popular ways we kid ourselves without realising it, things like hindsight bias, confirmation bias, the availability heuristic, the bystander effect etc. It was in one of those books like "You are not so smart" or something, can't remember which one.

I feel ancient now, but apparently look great. I think that's more typical for PWME.

 

[GracieJ]

@TiredSam

I do see where you are coming from.

It is a legitimate question for this group, though - do we tend to look younger, out of the norm, because of connective tissue disorders unique to us? I have wondered this for several years now.

I used to think maybe it was all the antioxidants many of us take, trying to fix this. But there are many on here who put down supplements as quackery.

So what is the difference, if there is one?

And yes, it is all the more ironic when you are in your 50s, look like 40s, and feel like 80s.

 

[worldbackwards]

You don't think perhaps this is one of the rare positive side effects to having ME?

Yeah, I'm the best looking housebound person I know.

Isn't stopping me going bald though. Now that'd be a good illness.

 

[MeSci]

Definitely some teachers wore clothing that was quite plain and little to no makeup. Since teachers are 'on stage', the way they physically present themselves is something the kids are quite aware of and talk about - and it is reflected in their conscious and subconscious behavior. My students usually complimented me when I took care with my appearance, and asked if I was sick and even acted up more if my appearance didn't show I cared about the way I was presenting to them. Sometimes, especially when I started to get sick, I was too tired to bother regardless.

It's definitely a chicken-or-egg thing there, though. Our math dept head was a gentleman, but he came in to work every day in a shirt-and-tie and dress slacks if not a full suit. His formality showed that he respected the position and expected the kids to, and they respected him for that. I would say the same is true for female teachers, only, as previously mentioned, looking 'put together' is more of an effort. But do people who put more effort into how they present also just put more effort into their teaching? Like, is 'put together' a personality type?

I also want to say that there is always one teacher who powers through on sheer force of personality. Our health teacher, also a coach, often came in wearing sweats and a tee shirt if she was going to be practicing or walking the track; but she also always had a touch of makeup on and her hair carefully done no matter what. And she was a veteran teacher with a way with the kids and a strong, indomitable personality, so her persona compensated for the casual attire in a non-casual work environment.

-J

I do not think that there is any connection between how one dresses or wears make-up or not, with their pride (or lack of it) in their work. Indeed, I am so keen to get on with important things I have to do, and to do them well, that I cannot be bothered with how I look at home. My priorities are what I do rather than what I look like. And taking care over one's appearance does not equate to looking super-smart or immaculately coiffed and made-up. It can simply involve looking neutral: looking clean and tidy but also natural.

I don't agree with your conclusions as to what people's appearance means, e.g. your statement "His formality showed that he respected the position and expected the kids to, and they respected him for that." I think you are assuming much too much. There could be many reasons why he dressed as he did, and the children probably had a range of reactions to it.

Perhaps your students behaved differently towards you when you looked different from how you usually looked, just as they would behave differently towards a colleague of yours when they looked more immaculate than usual. They were just observing differences in an individual person, and making assumptions from them.

If one is not dressed as one wants to be dressed, it will probably also affect the way one feels and behaves.

 

[MeSci]

I remember reading somewhere a while ago (probably a popular psychology book) that most people think they look about 5 years younger than everyone else their age, so in that respect we seem to be just the same as healthy people.

Explains my wierd behavior until the age of four.

With me I often get told I look much younger than I am, and people have sometimes expressed disbelief when I've told them my age. It used to be a disadvantage - especially the time I was refused a drink in a pub - which was very embarrassing! I didn't have proof of age on me, having been of drinking age for many years and making good use of that fact...

I do at least look old enough now to be taken seriously by at least some doctors.

 

[MeSci]

Yeah, I'm the best looking housebound person I know.

Isn't stopping me going bald though. Now that'd be a good illness.

Such a waste - all that gorgeousness going to waste at home - we should all be out parading our beauty for the delectation of the public!

Sorry to hear about the hair - or lack of it. If it's any consolation - and it probably isn't - my scalp is in a bad state, spoiling the crowning glory that was my hair for decades. I could see a dermatologist for it, but I want to avoid doctors as much as possible. Trying to fix it myself.

 

[worldbackwards]

Sorry to hear about the hair - or lack of it.

It's not gone yet, just in an increasing state of scarcity. I can look to my entirely bald dad to see where this is heading though.

On the other hand, in much the same way that maybe a tree doesn't fall down in the forest if no-one sees it, it could be claimed that by going largely unseen, my hair lives on in the minds of people who I no longer see. And given the very real power of people's beliefs over reality (as we all surely know), this is perhaps the greater victory.

Surely there's a CBT programme for this, where alopecia victims 'believe' in the existence of their hair and by pledging to grow it gradually, maybe at a cm a week, possibly increasing by up to 20% as the weeks pass by, a full head of hair is attained once more.

I think we have to face the possibility that my hair follicles have unhelpful and damaging sickness beliefs which are restricting their recovery. God knows what happened in their childhood to lead to such a situation...

 

[MeSci]

It's not gone yet, just in an increasing state of scarcity. I can look to my entirely bald dad to see where this is heading though.

On the other hand, in much the same way that maybe a tree doesn't fall down in the forest if no-one sees it, it could be claimed that by going largely unseen, my hair lives on in the minds of people who I no longer see. And given the very real power of people's beliefs over reality (as we all surely know), this is perhaps the greater victory.

Surely there's a CBT programme for this, where alopecia victims 'believe' in the existence of their hair and by pledging to grow it gradually, maybe at a cm a week, possibly increasing by up to 20% as the weeks pass by, a full head of hair is attained once more.

I think we have to face the possibility that my hair follicles have unhelpful and damaging sickness beliefs which are restricting their recovery. God knows what happened in their childhood to lead to such a situation...

Genius!

Shall we suggest this to Professor Sir Lord Emperor Pharaoh God Simon Wessely?

 

[worldbackwards]

Genius!

Shall we suggest this to Professor Sir Lord Emperor Pharaoh God Simon Wessely?

View attachment 12627

I must state that, in that kind of baldness, psychological factors are important and I don’t care how unpopular that statement makes me. We also have to consider what those years of inactivity have done to his follicles.

http://simonwessely.com/Downloads/Publications/CFS/mindoverbody.pdf

 

[GracieJ]

LOL Love it!

Hey, I also wonder how much the stress of this disease coupled with thyroid issues coupled with menopause leaves the ladies with thinning hair... DHT issues... ???

I have been battling thinning hair and hair loss for a while now. You know me - Miss Alternative Remedies. Much of it grew back, but it looks like it is time for another round of help. My bangs seem to be permanently gone. It makes it more difficult to find a hairdresser who will cut it well enough to hide the new flaws to be presentable at work.

This is not exclusively an ME effect for women, obviously, but given the lack of social support, practical support, etc. we do know PTSD is a possible development. Does some form of hair loss/alopecia occur at higher rates as well?

Good thing I do not lose sleep over this. Wait, I am losing sleep all the time anyway.

Amazing we are not all white-haired from shock.

 

[daisybell]

Thinning hair is something I have noticed in the past year.... It's not menopausal, but perhaps it is a symptom of autoimmune issues?

 

[Tammy]

Commenting on the make up issue...............I don't wear make-up anymore except for lipstick just because my lips are very pale. At one time I was using my lipstick for lips, cheeks and eyes! Make-up was done in less than 30 seconds! I used a very natural looking color of course...........didn't want to end up looking like a clown!

 

[Sean]

I must state that, in that kind of baldness, psychological factors are important and I don’t care how unpopular that statement makes me. We also have to consider what those years of inactivity have done to his follicles.

http://simonwessely.com/Downloads/Publications/CFS/mindoverbody.pdf

I laughed, and I don't feel the slightest bit guilty about it.

 

[Sean]

I laughed, and I don't feel the slightest bit guilty about it.

Spoken as a balding middle aged male.