I'm not just not showering, I'm repopulating my microbiome

[JAH]

The microbiome is hot! NYT article about repopulating the microbiome of your skin - was fascinated to learn the possibilities of changing bathing habits and taking a product containing "good bacteria".

[URL='http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/25/magazine/my-no-soap-no-shampoo-bacteria-rich-hygiene-experiment.html?nav']http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/25/magazine/my-no-soap-no-shampoo-bacteria-rich-hygiene-
experiment.html?nav[/URL]

I'm going to try it when the "mist" becomes available, but until then still have my excuse when
fatigue prevents me from regular showering. Hey- just repopulating my microbiome!

JAH

 

[JAH]

Update from AOBiome:

The interest generated from the New York Times Article, “My No-Soap, No-Shampoo, Bacteria-Rich Hygiene Experiment” written by Julia Scott (and segment on Good Morning America) has been beyond overwhelming, which supports our belief that people are becoming more aware of the importance of nurturing a healthy skin biome.
We are currently sold out of our entire supply of AO+ Mist™. We are working with our lab to drastically increase capacity and expect to have more AO+™ Mist in stock within 2 weeks.

 

[Sasha]

I hadn't realised it was actually on the market - I'd misunderstood the article (skim-read it when it first came out) and thought it was still in testing.

 

[xchocoholic]

I was wondering how everyone's skin is doing. Is bad skin a part of me/cfs ?

Mine was extremely dry and thin until I stopped taking daily showers and started using Earth Freindly almond dish soap for bathing when I bath. This soap leaves just the right amount of oil on my skin. I wouldn't recommend the almond version for dishes.

If our bodies are constantly spending energy and resources trying to heal our skin, will taking better care of it give us more energy ?

Tc .. x

 

[IreneF]

My experience has been the opposite. Not showering made my skin flaky. Not itchy, though--just a buildup of dead skin. Probably not unhealthy, but it has a big yuck factor.

 

[golden]

My experience has been the opposite. Not showering made my skin flaky. Not itchy, though--just a buildup of dead skin. Probably not unhealthy, but it has a big yuck factor.

Dry skin brushing may help? Very lightly and only in one direction towards the heart...being very gentle and small amounts at first as this helps the lymphatic system get rid of toxins from the body....

 

[golden]

I dont wash in Summer very much. Only the important bits like under armpits etc. This is to get as much Vit D as possible. The chemical reactions are taking place still up to 48 hours of receiving sunlight on the skin and I dont want to disrupt that.

I find my skin much better for this.

I also set up my little Tent in Summer, a Garden Bedroom :< And this gives me many rewards of being able to be fully naked in the sun but still privacy, shelter from any wind, and access to earthing by sticking my bare feet out onto the earth whilst lying in relative comfort on a pile of couch cushions.

 

[IreneF]

Dry skin brushing may help? Very lightly and only in one direction towards the heart...being very gentle and small amounts at first as this helps the lymphatic system get rid of toxins from the body....

Not really. Plus it takes energy.

 

[IreneF]

I dont wash in Summer very much. Only the important bits like under armpits etc. This is to get as much Vit D as possible. The chemical reactions are taking place still up to 48 hours of receiving sunlight on the skin and I dont want to disrupt that.

I find my skin much better for this.

I also set up my little Tent in Summer, a Garden Bedroom :< And this gives me many rewards of being able to be fully naked in the sun but still privacy, shelter from any wind, and access to earthing by sticking my bare feet out onto the earth whilst lying in relative comfort on a pile of couch cushions.

Some of us are too sun sensitive to lie around outside. No one in my family has ever gotten a tan.

 

[JAH]

Dry skin brushing may help? Very lightly and only in one direction towards the heart...being very gentle and small amounts at first as this helps the lymphatic system get rid of toxins from the body....

I kind of forgot about skin brushing, but it love it. I don't know if it "does" anything, but feels good, doesn't use much energy if you go slowly...JAH

 

[lauluce]

my skin is very sensitive too to soap and detergents, it gets dry easily, that's why I try to wash my hands only if really necessary and clean dishes, the floor, etc. using gloves. I also must note that sometimes the sking of my fingers peels of for no apparent reason and stays that way even for months. anybody experiences this?

 

[IreneF]

my skin is very sensitive too to soap and detergents, it gets dry easily, that's why I try to wash my hands only if really necessary and clean dishes, the floor, etc. using gloves. I also must note that sometimes the sking of my fingers peels of for no apparent reason and stays that way even for months. anybody experiences this?

I'm a big fan of gloves and lactic acid cream. I started washing my hands frequently when I was immunosuppresed. I keep lotion at every sink in the house.

I used to get tiny blisters on my hands for no reason. Then a few weeks ago my daughter complained about the tiny blisters on her hands that she got for no reason....

 

[JAH]

The store is open and the mist is now for sale.

https://www.aobiome.com/faq

I've been so ill, taking a shower feels like climbing mt Everest. This may help me two ways, feeling hygenic with out showering, and finding out if a well populated skin biome will improve my skin, or more generally, health. What do you think???

 

[TigerLilea]

I dont wash in Summer very much.

I have to make sure to shower often in the summer when I'm all hot and sweaty otherwise my skin and scalp get very itchy.

 

[Hip]

The microbiome is hot! NYT article about repopulating the microbiome of your skin - was fascinated to learn the possibilities of changing bathing habits and taking a product containing "good bacteria".

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/25/magazine/my-no-soap-no-shampoo-bacteria-rich-hygiene-experiment.html

The founder of AOBiome, Dave Whitlock, thinks that the ammonia oxidizing bacteria (AOB) contained in this AO+ spray can treat autism and chronic fatigue syndrome (ref: here).

Whitlock says he significantly improved his own autism by re-populating his skin with these ammonia oxidizing bacteria.

Ammonia oxidizing bacteria would normally live on our skin in high numbers, as they are a part of normal skin flora; however, many ingredients in soap products kill of these beneficial ammonia oxidizing bacteria. In particular, the introduction of synthetic sulfonated detergents into our soaps in the early 1960s rapidly killed off all the ammonia oxidizing bacteria (AOB) that were naturally found on human skin up until that time, according to Whitlock.

One idea is that the introduction of these AOB-killing chemicals found in modern soap products may have caused a downturn in human heath, by killing of these natural skin bacteria. Whitlock thinks that the loss of these commensal AOB skin flora is a major factor in the increase in autism since the 1960s.



I posted details explaining how these ammonia oxidizing bacteria can, according to Whitlock, help treat chronic fatigue syndrome and autism in this thread here:

Nitric Oxide, Peroxynitrite, and the Impairment of Mitochondrial Replication in CFS

See in particular, this post, this post, this post, and this post in that thread (the rest of the thread is a bit off topic).

In short: Whitlock believes autism and chronic fatigue syndrome arise from low nitric oxide (NO) levels, which results in low numbers of mitochondria in our cells. NO is one of the main inducers of mitochondrial biogenesis (creation of new mitochondria),† so when NO is low, we do not create new mitochondria so readily.

When you have lots of ammonia oxidizing bacteria on you skin, they act to raise nitric oxide levels in your blood, and this then causes more mitochondria to be created in your cells, according to Whitlock.

The AO+ spray is designed to re-populate you skin with ammonia oxidizing bacteria.

 

[JAH]

The founder of AOBiome, Dave Whitlock, thinks that the ammonia oxidizing bacteria (AOB) contained in this AO+ spray can treat autism and chronic fatigue syndrome (ref: here).

Whitlock says he significantly improved his own autism by re-populating his skin with these ammonia oxidizing bacteria.

Ammonia oxidizing bacteria would normally live on our skin in high numbers, as they are a part of normal skin flora; however, many ingredients in soap products kill of these beneficial ammonia oxidizing bacteria. In particular, the introduction of synthetic sulfonated detergents into our soaps in the early 1960s rapidly killed off all the ammonia oxidizing bacteria (AOB) that were naturally found on human skin up until that time, according to Whitlock.

One idea is that the introduction of these AOB-killing chemicals found in modern soap products may have caused a downturn in human heath, by killing of these natural skin bacteria. Whitlock thinks that the loss of these commensal AOB skin flora is a major factor in the increase in autism since the 1960s.



I posted details explaining how these ammonia oxidizing bacteria can, according to Whitlock, help treat chronic fatigue syndrome and autism in this thread here:

Nitric Oxide, Peroxynitrite, and the Impairment of Mitochondrial Replication in CFS

See in particular, this post, this post, this post, and this post in that thread (the rest of the thread is a bit off topic).

In short: Whitlock believes autism and chronic fatigue syndrome arise from low nitric oxide (NO) levels, which results in low numbers of mitochondria in our cells. NO is one of the main inducers of mitochondrial biogenesis (creation of new mitochondria),† so when NO is low, we do not create new mitochondria so readily.

When you have lots of ammonia oxidizing bacteria on you skin, they act to raise nitric oxide levels in your blood, and this then causes more mitochondria to be created in your cells, according to Whitlock.

The AO+ spray is designed to re-populate you skin with ammonia oxidizing bacteria.

Wow, I didn't even know this, thanks HIp. My post was half tongue in cheek, half me griping about being too tired to bathe, but now I might really try it. 99$ for a months supply, currently a "10 week" back order, according to the website. JAH

 

[Hip]

$99 seems pretty expensive. Though I wonder if once you have re-established your skin microbiome of ammonia-oxidizing bacteria, you may then no longer need to use the AO+ spray that often, provided you don't use regular soaps for skin cleaning, as soaps will kill off the ammonia oxidizing bacteria again.

I read that the AOBiome company is going to develop a range of soaps that do not kill the ammonia-oxidizing bacteria, but these are still in the research pipeline.


I did find Dave Whitlock's ideas on the loss of ammonia-oxidizing bacteria leading to disease very interesting, especially in the context of the apparently rising levels of autism and autoimmune conditions over recent decades. Synthetic sulfonated detergents, which kill of these natural ammonia-oxidizing bacteria on our skin, were added into our soaps in the early 1960s, so it is certainly interesting to consider whether the lost of these natural ammonia-oxidizing bacteria could be a factor in the apparent rise of autism and autoimmunity in recent decades. These ammonia-oxidizing bacteria were a part of normal human biochemistry for hundreds of thousands of years.

It may be just a coincidence, but the 1960s also saw the hippy movement arrive, a subculture characterized by unwashed hair, and general avoidance of soap. Does make me wonder whether some intuitive people in that hippy movement somehow sensed that washing with sulfonated detergent soaps was altering their balanced biochemistry for the worse?


While exploring this ammonia-oxidizing bacteria subject, I came access this paper: The Number of Regulatory T Cells: Pursuit of the Golden Mean

On page 257 of that paper there is a reference to the loss of skin ammonia-oxidizing bacteria, and the resulting dysregulation of induced regulatory T cells (iTregs). These iTreg cells are responsible for damping inflammatory reactions, and their dysregulation may lead to excess inflammation, in turn leading to conditions like CFS. To quote from the paper:

"Recent changes in microbial flora of skin also contribute to delay of the immune system maturation. Before the invention of modern soaps and detergents, skin was colonized by ammonia-oxidizing bacteria. The latter are ubiquitous in soil, but they are exquisitely sensitive to alkyl-benzene sulphonate detergents. These organisms convert the high concentrations of urea and ammonia found in human sweat into nitrite and NO. The latter is essential for iTreg development and thereby plays an important role in peripheral tolerance establishment in the skin."

By having these ammonia-oxidizing bacteria as part of your skin's microbiome, you are constantly creating nitrite and nitric oxide (NO) on your skin, which are absorbed into the bloodstream, and these help develop the iTreg cells that quell autoimmune reactions.

So the beneficial NO generated by these ammonia-oxidizing bacteria on your skin may not only boost mitochondrial numbers, but also increase iTreg cells which fight autoimmunity.


Whitlock says you can also raise your basal NO levels by including more nitrates into your diet (nitrates are found in green leafy vegetables, and in high amounts in beetroot juice).

 

[Sasha]

Whitlock says you can also raise your basal NO levels by including more nitrates into your diet (nitrates are found in green leafy vegetables, and in high amounts in beetroot juice).

According to this, beetroot juice lowers BP:

http://www.webmd.boots.com/healthy-eating/guide/beetroot-benefits

I'm wondering whether, for those of us with OI and low BP, whether the effect of beetroot juice on generally "fixing stuff" would counteract that problem.

I wonder how much nitrate you'd have to eat to get an effect?

I think there have been more recent studies, but beetroot juice improves endurance in healthies:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19661447

 

[Hip]

I wonder how much nitrate you'd have to eat to get an effect?

In the study mentioned in this article, they used 1488 mg of nitrate (in the form of potassium nitrate).

I think though with the ammonia-oxidizing bacteria, this forms a dynamic biochemical system, and the amount of NO and nitrite produced by these bacteria on your skin depends on how much you are sweating, which in turn depends on your sympathetic nervous system activation.

 

[IreneF]

Castile and other old-fashioned soaps are still on the market. They don't have any sulfonated detergents in them, but I find them irritating.

I knew a lot of hippies, but all of them bathed and washed their hair.