I replace all my hormones to cure my CFS. Here is what I have learned along the way.

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I am new to this group. Thanks for having me.
I want to share my journey with hormone replacement because I believe it might be useful to others.

My story: I am a medical student in my last year. I replace all of my hormones. Before hormone replacement I had ZERO energy. Multiple hormone replacement brought me back to life.

In early twenties my life was starting to go down the gutter. My life started to fall apart in every domain. At one point I was at the brink of suicide. I found out multiples of my hormnones were low. I started hormone replacement. Whereas before my life was a nightmare, it has been great ever since. I have been doing this for some years now.

What I take. But what works for me might not work for others.

  • TRT: Test Cyp (50mg subQ 2x/week), HcG (250iu subQ 2x/week),
  • cortisol: cortisone acetate (20mg/d HC equivalent) (split into 4 daily doses)
  • thyroid: 1.25 grains NDT + 6.25mcg T3 (a few hours later in the day)
  • GH: 0.5iu genotropin pfizer (aiming for IGF1 of 250) prebed
  • fludrocortisone 01.mg/d morning
  • melatonin: 0.25mg sublingual prebed
Everyone is different, but the target range I aim for is in the upper tertile of the youthful reference range. Just falling somewhere within the reference range is not “optimal”. The reference range covers 95% of the population. Certainly more than 5% of the population have hormones bad enough to warrant intervention.

I am aware that this is rather uncharted territory, esp. in a DIY kind of way. As a medical student in my last year I am well aware of the risks. But to me the cost-benefit analysis is a no-brainer. If I had to, I would sign a contract to rather live 10 more years with my new vitality and then die instead of living to one hundred with the dreadful state I was in before.

I do extensive blood tests (complete hormone panel, metabolic health, general health) around every 3-4 months. I would´t dare doing anything (not even starting) without it.

Other stuff I do: keto/paleo, HIIT, weekly rapamycin, a bunch of supplements (all of them together less worth than a slight alteration in hormones), some exercise every day, sleep around 6h (wake up refreshed without alarm -before HRT I needed 8+).

After years of studying, researching, experimenting, testing I did a writeup about some stuff I have learned along the way.

My goal with all my writing is to point people into the right direction to remove biological shackles allowing them become the best version of themselves and live life fully.

Had I known what I know now, it would have saved me lots of time, money, happiness, effort, researching, experimenting. And suffering. I hope some of you find value in it . Enjoy.

How To Fix Your Hormones: The Ultimate Guide

I am open for any feedback and criticism.


I am sure some of you are quite knowledgable and experienced and might give valuable feedback/criticism and point out blind spots or other stuff I didn´t think about. What are your thoughts on all this? As I am in my mid twenties, do you think this is sustainable for decades?


For questions/feedback you don´t want to post here my email: thingsvarious (at) yahoo (dot) co (dot) uk
 
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Hip

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Hi @thingsvarious, congratulations on your recovery. May I ask some questions:

(1) Where would you say you were on the ME/CFS scale of: very severe, severe, moderate, mild, remission before you started treatment?

(2) Did you test the effects and benefits of the hormones you take individually? Or did you start taking all these replacement hormones at once? There might be one or two hormones that you replace which are really making a big difference, and perhaps the others only make a minor difference.

For example, human growth hormone (HGH) deficiency can mimic many of the symptoms of ME/CFS: see adult growth hormone deficiency symptoms. There was one member on this forum who had an ME/CFS diagnosis for 10 years, but she made a full recovery within weeks once she discovered she had HGH deficiency, rather than ME/CFS.

(3) Did you find any explanation for why multiple hormones are low?

Did at any point you get a physical blow to the head? Like a car accident causing concussion for example? Hypopituitarism occurs in up to 30% of people who have moderate or severe traumatic brain injury (TBI), and can sometimes occur even in mild TBI cases.

(4) When you tested your hormones, how low were they below the normal range? Do you have any lab test data that you can share?

(5) Have you tried any high quality Chinese brands of HGH, and compared the results to the more expensive Genotropin HGH from Pfizer that you are taking?

Some years ago I bought some Jintropin HGH from rupharma.com (which is a reliable prescription-free pharmacy), and took 1 IU daily for around a week (but did not notice much benefit). Jintropin costs €300 for 100 IU. Jintropin has an anti-counterfeiting system where you can check the authenticity of the product on the manufacturer's website GeneScience Pharmaceuticals (there is lots of fake HGH being sold).

If you look at this review of HGH brands, you can see that Jintropin is classed as high quality.
 
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Hi @thingsvarious, congratulations on your recovery. May I ask some questions:

(1) Where would you say you were on the ME/CFS scale of: very severe, severe, moderate, mild, remission before you started treatment?

(2) Did you test the effects and benefits of the hormones you take individually? Or did you start taking all these replacement hormones at once? There might be one or two hormones that you replace which are really making a big difference, and perhaps the others only make a minor difference.

For example, human growth hormone (HGH) deficiency can mimic many of the symptoms of ME/CFS: see adult growth hormone deficiency symptoms. There was one member on this forum who had an ME/CFS diagnosis for 10 years, but she made a full recovery within weeks once she discovered she had HGH deficiency, rather than ME/CFS.

(3) Did you find any explanation for why multiple hormones are low?

Did at any point you get a physical blow to the head? Like a car accident causing concussion for example? Hypopituitarism occurs in up to 30% of people who have moderate or severe traumatic brain injury (TBI), and can sometimes occur even in mild TBI cases.

(4) When you tested your hormones, how low were they below the normal range? Do you have any lab test data that you can share?

(5) Have you tried any high quality Chinese brands of HGH, and compared the results to the more expensive Genotropin HGH from Pfizer that you are taking?

Some years ago I bought some Jintropin HGH from rupharma.com (which is a reliable prescription-free pharmacy), and took 1 IU daily for around a week (but did not notice much benefit). Jintropin costs €300 for 100 IU. Jintropin has an anti-counterfeiting system where you can check the authenticity of the product on the manufacturer's website GeneScience Pharmaceuticals (there is lots of fake HGH being sold).

If you look at this review of HGH brands, you can see that Jintropin is classed as high quality.
1) severe
2) yes; just started with hcg -> thyroid -> nothing (1 year) -> cortisol -> GH. Biggest differenc were thyroid and cortisol
3) no..
4) below the range; all of them; I have tens of lab tests I could share but certainly not openly
5) yes. Night and day difference
 

Hip

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2) yes; just started with hcg -> thyroid -> nothing (1 year) -> cortisol -> GH. Biggest differenc were thyroid and cortisol
So thyroid hormone made a big difference. Were your thyroid hormone levels low enough to consider yourself a hypothyroidism patient? I am sure you know that hypothyroidism has very similar symptoms to ME/CFS.



below the range; all of them; I have tens of lab tests I could share but certainly not openly
You could perhaps provide the figures, rather than uploading actual lab reports with your name on it. Or blot out your name on the lab reports. I am quite interested in seeing how much below the normal range your hormones were.



yes. Night and day difference
Really, so you don't rate the Chinese brands of HGH? Which Chinese HGH did you take? Some of the Chinese brands are low quality. And also, there is a major problem with fake HGH being sold.

And can I ask, where do you obtain your Genotropin? Do you get it via a doctor's prescription, or do you buy it without prescription?
 
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Alvin2

The good news is patients don't die the bad news..
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Very interesting, though the stack sounds a lot like hypopituitarism

I was put on testosterone last year, currently at 100mg gel that i have to apply daily. If increased my lifting strength slightly but thats it. I can now lift 10 lbs for a moment without feeling like i am dying form the weight.

My cortisol is rather low, mid double digits in the evening, waiting on setting up an ACTH stimulation test.

My thyroid labs come back normal.

I take 1mg melatonin to help with the non 24 hour circadian rhythm disorder, helps a bit, though sleep quality is pathetically poor.
 
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So thyroid hormone made a big difference. Were your thyroid hormone levels low enough to consider yourself a hypothyroidism patient? I am sure you know that hypothyroidism has very similar symptoms to ME/CFS.





You could perhaps provide the figures, rather than uploading actual lab reports with your name on it. Or blot out your name on the lab reports. I am quite interested in seeing how much below the normal range your hormones were.





Really, so you don't rate the Chinese brands of HGH? Which Chinese HGH did you take? Some of the Chinese brands are low quality. And also, there is a major problem with fake HGH being sold.

And can I ask, where do you obtain your Genotropin? Do you get it via a doctor's prescription, or do you buy it without prescription?

fT3 was below reference range. The lethargy was INSANE. T3 made so much of a difference

Too much work to add all my blood tests :D

Read https://thingsvarious.medium.com/growth-hormone-38bd5e232bd7 my last point why I wouldn´t even RISK Chinese GH even if it has a (high) chance of being legit
 

Hip

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Read https://thingsvarious.medium.com/growth-hormone-38bd5e232bd7 my last point why I wouldn´t even RISK Chinese GH even if it has a (high) chance of being legit
So are you saying that actually, you have not tried high-quality Chinese HGH, and not compared it to Western HGH?


Presumably the reason you would not risk Chinese HGH is detailed in your paragraph here:
Because of its price, it is tempting to buy GH from the underground market (bodybuilders do this extensively). This is one of the worst things you could do and you are playing with fire. For one, you don´t know what you are getting.

Second, even if you are getting GH, it could either be impure or it could be bovine or porcine GH (which are quite cheap) used for promoting growth in livestock. If this is the case, there is a risk of developing antibodies that crossreact with your own endogenous GH.
But is there any evidence that bodybuilders are developing antibodies which target endogenous HGH? Presumably if you did develop such antibodies, you'd become HGH-deficient, and that would be symptomatically noticeable. I read bodybuilding forums sometimes, and have not come across any such cases.



You might like to read this webpage from an expert in HGH pharmaceutical production technology:

Is there a difference between western (big pharma) made growth hormone and growth hormone made in China?
The reason Chinese goods are often seen as inferior is the vast availability of cheap copies of everything (clothes, electronics, etc..) which visually appear the same as original but are composed of cheaper, inferior material and are thus lower quality and less durable. With production of somatropin this is not possible. The necessary equipment to even create it, comes at a multi million dollar price, so steroid "bathtub" labs are not capable of making it.

The only somatropin manufacturing method which is still used today (both in the west and asia) is the recombinant DNA technology, where E. Coli bacteria are genetically modified to secrete human growth hormone, which is then isolated and can be either lyophilized (freeze dried) or stored in the liquid form.


Some background on the expert who wrote the above:
During the past 25 years I have worked for two growth hormone manufacturers (first in USA, afterwards in China). I can pretty much assemble a somatropin production line blindfolded. I am now retired and not associated with any company. This website reflects my personal experience.

I believe in freedom of speech and I believe that every person should be free to do anything they want as long as their actions don't cause harm to others.

Personally I have been using HGH for well over a decade. Mostly I have used it recreationally, to get in shape after periods of inactivity. Occasionally I have used high doses, to recover after injuries and lately I have been using low doses for anti aging purposes.

During the years I have had the privilege of talking about and comparing the results with hundreds of frequent growth hormone users. I have heard and observed pretty much everything there is to learn about it.

This website is my contribution towards clearing all the idiotic misconceptions about growth hormone which are spread all over the internet by supplement salesmen, government "big propaganda" machinery, and dealers or companies trying to put their brand above others.
 
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Hip

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@thingsvarious, the reason I am interested in a comparison of effects of Western HGH versus high quality Chinese HGH is because I bought Chinese Jintropin HGH and injected it as a means to test whether I might be HGH deficient.

If my symptoms would have substantially improved by the HGH injections, then that would suggest HGH deficiency. But I experienced no substantial improvement from the Jintropin HGH.



I did also get a blood test done in London for HGH level, and this was the result:

Growth Hormone · · · · · 0.5 ng/ml

Apparently the normal HGH range for adult males is 0.4 to 10 ng/ml, so in that test, I am right at the lower end of the scale.

But HGH tests are not that reliable, because as it says on this webpage:
GH is released in pulses. The size and duration of the pulses varies with time of day, age, and gender. This is why random GH measurements are rarely useful. A higher level may be normal if the blood was drawn during a pulse. A lower level may be normal if the blood was drawn around the end of a pulse. GH is most useful when measured as part of a stimulation or suppression test.
This is why I think a more reliable way to test for HGH deficiency is just injecting some HGH. But obviously you want to make sure you use real HGH, not some fake stuff.
 
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@thingsvarious, the reason I am interested in a comparison of effects of Western HGH versus high quality Chinese HGH is because I bought Chinese Jintropin HGH and injected it as a means to test whether I might be HGH deficient.

If my symptoms would have substantially improved by the HGH injections, then that would suggest HGH deficiency. But I experienced no substantial improvement from the Jintropin HGH.



I did also get a blood test done in London for HGH level, and this was the result:

Growth Hormone · · · · · 0.5 ng/ml

Apparently the normal HGH range for adult males is 0.4 to 10 ng/ml, so in that test, I am right at the lower end of the scale.

But HGH tests are not that reliable, because as it says on this webpage:


This is why I think a more reliable way to test for HGH deficiency is just injecting some HGH. But obviously you want to make sure you use real HGH, not some fake stuff.
Personal anecdote. Take it with a grain of salt. On hygetropin my IGF1 was over 500ng/ml, but I felt like shit. Changing to pfizer genotropin made an incredible diffference, I had no sides anymore. You just want to hear what you want to hear, please be safe with UGL. Protein hormones are nothing to mess with.

As to antibodies, many diabetics have antibodies against insulin after changing products. There clinical significance is unknown. Perhaps partially reduced activity of endogenous protein, perhaps not. If I were you, I wouldn´t risk it for just a couple hundred dollar. 1.5iu pharma grade is all you need. Runs you about 200 Euro per month.
 

Hip

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Personal anecdote. Take it with a grain of salt. On hygetropin my IGF1 was over 500ng/ml, but I felt like shit. Changing to pfizer genotropin made an incredible diffference, I had no sides anymore. You just want to hear what you want to hear, please be safe with UGL. Protein hormones are nothing to mess with.
That's a very interesting story, thanks.

I may try to get hold of some European or US brand HGH to try.


Hygetropin, if you look on the review of HGH brands I mentioned earlier, is classed as a medium quality Chinese HGH (not to be confused with Hypertropin, which on that list is a high-quality Chinese brand).

Also, when I was looking online, I found a lot of stories of fake Hygetropin, so I decided I would not try that brand. You would read things like this about Hygetropin:
"The green tops I have bought are legit and so are black tops. You get labels separately to stick on. It's a way around certain importing issues. The yellows are replicas and not genuine dr lins as explained." From Eroids.
 
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That's a very interesting story, thanks.

I may try to get hold of some European or US brand HGH to try.


Hygetropin, if you look on the review of HGH brands I mentioned earlier, is classed as a medium quality Chinese HGH (not to be confused with Hypertropin, which on that list is a high-quality Chinese brand).

Also, when I was looking online, I found a lot of stories of fake Hygetropin, so I decided I would not try that brand. You would read things like this about Hygetropin:
Due to differences in glycosylation the risk of developing antibodies increases drastically the more often you switch.

Source: my endocrinologist has seen it countless times.
 
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Hip

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Due to differences in glycosylation the risk of developing antibodies increases drastically the more often you switch.
Point taken.

Though I am not actually taking HGH, and the last time I tried HGH was 3 years ago, and only for a few weeks. As I mentioned, I took HGH just as a test, to see if I might be HGH deficient.

My only concern is that the Chinese HGH I took might not be that effective, in which case, my test of HGH would not be valid.
 
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sometexan84

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@thingsvarious

Congrats on the recovery!

Your post made me go back to re-check my lab results from before, especially Hormones. I noticed my Cortisol levels have been going down over time.

These are my latest Cortisol levels. Any thoughts on these for a 35 yr old male in above-average health/shape?

1605663416833.png


Also, what were your thyroid levels pre-treatment? Surely you can share that.
 
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gbells

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I am new to this group. Thanks for having me.
I want to share my journey with hormone replacement because I believe it might be useful to others.

My story: I am a medical student in my last year. I replace all of my hormones. Before hormone replacement I had ZERO energy. Multiple hormone replacement brought me back to life.

In early twenties my life was starting to go down the gutter. My life started to fall apart in every domain. At one point I was at the brink of suicide. I found out multiples of my hormnones were low. I started hormone replacement. Whereas before my life was a nightmare, it has been great ever since. I have been doing this for some years now.

What I take. But what works for me might not work for others.

  • TRT: Test Cyp (50mg subQ 2x/week), HcG (250iu subQ 2x/week),
  • cortisol: cortisone acetate (20mg/d HC equivalent) (split into 4 daily doses)
  • thyroid: 1.25 grains NDT + 6.25mcg T3 (a few hours later in the day)
  • GH: 0.5iu genotropin pfizer (aiming for IGF1 of 250) prebed
  • fludrocortisone 01.mg/d morning
  • melatonin: 0.25mg sublingual prebed
Everyone is different, but the target range I aim for is in the upper tertile of the youthful reference range. Just falling somewhere within the reference range is not “optimal”. The reference range covers 95% of the population. Certainly more than 5% of the population have hormones bad enough to warrant intervention.

I am aware that this is rather uncharted territory, esp. in a DIY kind of way. As a medical student in my last year I am well aware of the risks. But to me the cost-benefit analysis is a no-brainer. If I had to, I would sign a contract to rather live 10 more years with my new vitality and then die instead of living to one hundred with the dreadful state I was in before.

I do extensive blood tests (complete hormone panel, metabolic health, general health) around every 3-4 months. I would´t dare doing anything (not even starting) without it.

Other stuff I do: keto/paleo, HIIT, weekly rapamycin, a bunch of supplements (all of them together less worth than a slight alteration in hormones), some exercise every day, sleep around 6h (wake up refreshed without alarm -before HRT I needed 8+).

After years of studying, researching, experimenting, testing I did a writeup about some stuff I have learned along the way.

My goal with all my writing is to point people into the right direction to remove biological shackles allowing them become the best version of themselves and live life fully.

Had I known what I know now, it would have saved me lots of time, money, happiness, effort, researching, experimenting. And suffering. I hope some of you find value in it . Enjoy.

How To Fix Your Hormones: The Ultimate Guide

I am open for any feedback and criticism.


I am sure some of you are quite knowledgable and experienced and might give valuable feedback/criticism and point out blind spots or other stuff I didn´t think about. What are your thoughts on all this? As I am in my mid twenties, do you think this is sustainable for decades?


For questions/feedback you don´t want to post here my email: thingsvarious (at) yahoo (dot) co (dot) uk
I asked Yoda what he thought.

"Strong in this one, the placebo effect is."

1605669500692.png
 
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@gbells I didn’t get it. Is his approach a legitimate means to try and unravel a systemic problem? Because I saw myself in his medium articles a whole lot. All of it.
 

gbells

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@gbells I didn’t get it. Is his approach a legitimate means to try and unravel a systemic problem? Because I saw myself in his medium articles a whole lot. All of it.
There is no evidence that ME is due to systemic hormone deficiencies so no, while there is evidence of chronic viral infections in ME patients. He claims to monitor his hormones but shows no pre-treatment data and there isn't one study showing that this is a primary cause of ME. If he has underlying viral infections then they will progressively increase the number of infected cells and his condition will worsen. I'm not against hormone replacement and take a lot of longevity replacement supplements myself. Yes I can boost energy 50% with d-ribose and nicotinamide riboside work arounds however they don't change the underlying viral infections that are causing the ME effects.

This is why I have been very reluctant to set up a website and talk about treatments until I feel confident that will work. People are depending on me to get this right. My current system is based on 11 years of experimentation and critical assessment. Hundreds of hours of researching the medical literature regarding apotosis effects of different chemicals. Testing scores of supplements. The last thing I want to do is to ruin my reputation by putting crap out there for patients to waste time and money on.
 
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There is no evidence that ME is due to systemic hormone deficiencies so no, while there is evidence of chronic viral infections in ME patients. He claims to monitor his hormones but shows no pre-treatment data and there isn't one study showing that this is a primary cause of ME. If he has underlying viral infections then they will progressively increase the number of infected cells and his condition will worsen. I'm not against hormone replacement and take a lot of longevity replacement supplements myself. Yes I can boost energy 50% with d-ribose and nicotinamide riboside work arounds however they don't change the underlying viral infections that are causing the ME effects.

This is why I have been very reluctant to set up a website and talk about treatments until I feel confident that will work. People are depending on me to get this right. My current system is based on 11 years of experimentation and critical assessment. Hundreds of hours of researching the medical literature regarding apotosis effects of different chemicals. Testing scores of supplements. The last thing I want to do is to ruin my reputation by putting crap out there for patients to waste time and money on.
I guess ME is a very multifactorial thing. It can have many causes the same way that multiple ways lead to Rome. It is a phenotype. I am NOT saying that all forms of CFS are due to hormone deficiencies, but many certainly are. And in many cases hormones are at least contributing to the fatigue (or could be used as a therapy).
 

Alvin2

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I guess ME is a very multifactorial thing. It can have many causes the same way that multiple ways lead to Rome. It is a phenotype.
This is preposterous. Diseases do not work like this, each disease has a specific etiology. Either CFS is one disease or many people are being lumped into it because of insufficient investigations for their actual disease. Or possibly there are more than one unnamed conditions, which is possible, symptom overlap and diagnostic criteria that are not specific enough can inadvertently say people with more than one condition have the same thing. For example the Fukuda criteria would lump people with CFS and depression because it was not good enough. The CCC or ICC are better but not yet as good as the tests used to diagnose Parkinsons for example (which has no diagnostic test at present yet has a reasonably well understood etiology and a well defined and tested diagnostic criteria).

I am NOT saying that all forms of CFS are due to hormone deficiencies, but many certainly are. And in many cases hormones are at least contributing to the fatigue (or could be used as a therapy).
This is a categorical statement backed up by no research. As a medical student are you not trained to look for the actual condition in question backed by medical science?