hypertension from CFS: solved FOR ME

[Learner1]

There seem to be some differences in study results...these studies do say IVC results in higher blood concentrations than oral.

As mentioned above, the uptake of oral ascorbate in humans is tightly controlled by the gut and kidney filtration [7]. Rats receiving ascorbate by gavage (0.5 mg g−1) increased blood and extracellular concentration to peak levels <150 μM [10]. By contrast, concentrations reached peak levels of nearly 3 mM in rats receiving intraperitoneal injections, while intravenous injection increased peak levels to >8 mM. In a similar study, mice receiving bolus intravenous injections of ascorbate (1 g kg−1), resulted in plasma concentrations of 15mM [164]. Supplementation of ascorbate in drinking water at 1 g kg−1 only increased
plasma concentrations to <50 μM. These results clearly indicate that pharmacologic
concentrations of ascorbate cannot be obtained by oral administration.

Just as important, our data show that intravenous administration of vitamin C produces substantially higher plasma concentrations than can be achieved with oral administration of vitamin C.

 

[pamojja]

..these studies do say IVC results in higher blood concentrations than oral.

The problem with these papers:

Vitamin C plasma and urine concentrations
were measured after administration of oral and intravenous doses
at a dose range of 0.015 to 1.25 g, and plasma concentrations
were calculated for a dose range of 1 to 100 g.

Others gave up to 2.5g in a single dose and also merely calculated for higher intakes. While the study posted before is the only one I'm aware of which didn't calculate, but actually measured vitamin C serum levels in real humans!

Self-reported daily intake varied from 0 to 20 g/day. The plasma AA levels ranged from 11.4 to 517 µmol/L and correlated well with the reported intake.

Heard above 400 µmol/L would already be somewhat effective with cancer cells. Such high levels have never been before measured from oral intake, simply because nobody bothered to measure afters NIHs miscalculations. An issue talked about for example in this article: https://wholefoodsmagazine.com/colu...arch-on-optimizing-blood-and-cellular-levels/, Though there they too seem not aware that already as high as 517 µmol/L has already been measured purely with plain AA. Personally doubt their speculation that additional liposomal would add up in serum.

 

[Learner1]

Interesting. Thanks for sharing. I'd think at 20g a day (in divided doses, of course), one would want to raise intake of vitamins A and E, ALA, anf glutathione.

 

[pamojja]

I'd think at 20g a day (in divided doses, of course), one would want to raise intake of vitamins A and E, ALA, anf glutathione.

I raised all supplemented nutrients gradually over the years (of your list only didn't use glutathione, but NAC instead) and didn't experience any imbalance induced from high dose vitamin C. Only a bid unpleasant side-effect when going above 30 g/d - which I always do with worse rhinitis symptoms - is flatulence in my case.

However, vitamin D did push me in a Magnesium deficiency I couldn't overcome orally for many years.

 

[Learner1]

You may not have had stage 3 cancer, the infect ions, or genetics I've had. We are all unique individuals with unique environmental factors that impact our needs for various nutrients. And, antioxidants are in flux, they recycle each other.

I have been on very high doses of Vitamin C and ALA over time, and find I need to keep A and E high, and my doctors have given me glutathione as a complement.

Lester Packer, who led the worlds foremost antioxidant lab at UC Berkeley for decades, discusses what he calls the antioxidant network in this book:

The Antioxidant Miracle
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0471353116/ref=cm_sw_r_em_apa_WcuqBb8PVPW8J

 

[alex3619]

in this book:

This is the basis for the antioxidant pentet I keep talking about. Its a connected network, if something is missing the whole network is less effective.

 

[alex3619]

Glutathione is destroyed during digestion. That is why many take NAC. Further, some cell types cannot absorb glutathione from the blood. This is why NAC is effective, it supplies the cysteine precursor so the cells can make their own. However IV glutathione and to some extent absorbed under the tongue might have some impact, esp. the IV.

Now there is a reason to take oral glutathione, as it will directly impact cells in the mouth and throat.

 

[Learner1]

Glutathione is destroyed during digestion. That is why many take NAC. Further, some cell types cannot absorb glutathione from the blood. This is why NAC is effective, it supplies the cysteine precursor so the cells can make their own. However IV glutathione and to some extent absorbed under the tongue might have some impact, esp. the IV.

As someone who has gotten glutathione in IV form for 3 years, I do find it helpful. However, it only stays so long. And, though I've taken high doses of all the precursors, inclufing plenty if NAC, my glutathione levels are still low overall, due to the huge oxidative stress my mitochondria are putting out.

Recently, I started trying preloading with Seeking Health or Designs for Health liposomal glutathione before exercise or stress, and taking Thorne R-glutathione afterwards. I've tried one, the other, anf both, and all of it seems to help head off PEM. The effect is definitely over and above whatvin getying from the B vitamins, NAC, glycine, and glutamine.

Now there is a reason to take oral glutathione, as it will directly impact cells in the mouth and throat.

Maybe the liquid liposomal glutathione will, but I doubt the capsules will do much...

 

[alex3619]

I doubt the capsules will do much...

I should have clarified. I break capsules down and take the powder with water. It tastes acidic.

 

[Sherlock]

Are you talking about sipping those things during PEM? What are some anti-acid, anti-oxidant or anti-inflammatories that you are recommending?

I do elevate my legs most of the time when sitting - I have a recliner.

What is a foam roller and what do you do with it?

I can't take a cold shower break during PEM - it's exertion. I have to do absolutely nothing while crashed.

Do what for 2.5 hours a.m. and p.m.?

It's for before the exercise, over the hours afterward, and even during.

Let's see...
Potassium citrate works well and safely as an anti-acid. Baking soda works, too, but you have to be very careful to not take too much - else there is a very powerful laxative effect.


If legs are elevated above the body, as on a bed with the foot of the bed raised, that might help eliminate exercise metabolites from the legs. Not for too long, though.

A foam roller is a tough cylinder ~ 6" diameter lined with foam to make it a little softer. You put it underneath yourself. The purpose is to use your bodyweight to do something like a self massage and help get the metabolites out of the muscle. That might be a little too rugged, though.

Let's say you get plateaued at 4 hours of activity, you might try going for 2.5 hours in the a.m., then another 2.5 hours in the p.m. If you are able to do that for several days, you might find that you have built up some additional capacity and can then do 4.5 hours straight.

[edit: also things like vitamin C, ginger, green and black tea, TMG, grape seed... ]

 

[Mary]

Let's say you get plateaued at 4 hours of activity, you might try going for 2.5 hours in the a.m., then another 2.5 hours in the p.m. If you are able to do that for several days, you might find that you have built up some additional capacity and can then do 4.5 hours straight.

I can't do 4 hours of exertion straight. Whatever I do, I have to have rest beaks in between. I have done a few hours in the a.m. and a couple in the p.m. (with rest breaks) but it's never increased my activity window.

I have used baking soda on occasion when I have PEM, and it helps with the achiness a little, but does not seem to speed up my recovery. I recently increased the benfotiamine I've been taking and found I get less achy with PEM, though the PEM lasts the same amount of time! It seems a little bizarre. I always used to know when the PEM was finally over because the last bit of aches would disappear from my legs, but now I no longer have that barometer - I almost wish I had it back! Because I still get PEM.