How young doctors view us?

sissypop

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Lawyers have a reputation of being scum, but I see no reason why doctors (with exceptions, obviously) should not be looked at with the same scrutiny. Until doctors are stopped being looked at as heroes and geniuses, the incentive for them to actually do their jobs will continue being low.
Yes we have put doctors on a pedestal, kissing their ass or ring or whatever Because we thought they had the power to give life or take it away. My generation and family especially believe this and doctors in my area don’t consider ME a real disease and think that it is all in your head and you are psychologically disturbed. So my friends and family think that too.
 

rel8ted

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If I could convince myself that I chose this life and had a great desire to live miserably in near poverty, I would think I were nuts, too. At least I can live with myself and lay my head down in peace each night knowing that I did not send someone seeking my help into great depression by treating them like a piece of dung.

The arrogance of some of them still amazes me.
 

AlwaysTired

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Yeah, reading those comments was a bad idea. Makes me very irritated at the ignorance of most people who would smugly consider themselves informed because they blindly believe whatever mainstream science says on the issue and bash anyone who doesn't.
We can counteract that narrative though. They are young and therefore not set in their ways yet.
 

AlwaysTired

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And I see them as brain-dead. Go to my appointments with me... you will understand that most know NOTHING about our lives of illness. N O T H I N G .
Because the schools don't teach them, and residencies are at the mercy of what the attendings that they work with believe. But they are young, and therefore not set in their ways/beliefs yet, which gives us a chance to get through to them
 

AlwaysTired

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@sb4 I just edited my post to make it a bit positive. Well ... I cannot understand that - often enough - an assessment that we could be possibly right is out of reach. I am concerned, but times might change. And it seems that we are getting slowly some wind in our sails.
Medicine is moving towards a collaborative model (of doctors and patients working together) which is why I was surprised to see these young docs talking/thinking like their predecessors
 

AlwaysTired

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Atleast the section where they discuss Jamison and ME/CFS is a bit more appreciative of ME/CFS being an organic disorder, or are those comments added by patients?

The arrogance of young doctors is really an issue, but by putting myself in their shoes, I can understand it. You go through six+ gruelling years of med school, being brainwashed with the curriculum, you cling on to everything you are taught like its the bible and aren't taught to think outside the box intuitively as you don't have any spare time or energy for that. Then receiving your medical degree is this accomplishment that noone is then permitted to contest in the doctors office of on the ward. (It's definitely not ok to ridicule patients though)

So then we find ourselves in a position of conflict between an individuals ego and a patients life... something needs to change.

I am really intrigued to know whether in regards to MCS, EHS and Mold illness, they simply think they do not exist at all and it is a mental condition that patients have chosen to focus on that particular area. You would think that there first question would be 'how did this start?' if it was an intuitive doctor, which would lead to a patient answer of something like 'One day I picked up my phone and had immense crapping and shooting pains through my arm' (which was actually want happened with me - although I don't have these sensitivities any more)
Yes you hit the nail on the head. Residencies are brutal hazing periods, which end up turning some into callous a-holes, and make many others suicidal. Many go into medicine for the money and prestige, rather than to really help people. The expense of med school and stringent competition mean most med students come from affluent or at least privileged middle class backgrounds (better schools, better grades, more encouragement and pressure to seek out high status careers), thus the out of touch-ness of some doctors

I'm grateful for the few who are informing the others about cfs/me. They do seem to be doctors, though a few patients have chimed in at this point too. But I'd still be on there commenting even if all acknowledged cfs was real, because of people with Lyme, mcs, etc being ridiculed and marginalized.
 

AlwaysTired

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Care not about the ignorant. How do you see yourself?

Doctors do an immense amount of harm in society. I do not respect medical schools whatsoever.
Well unfortunately they have a huge part in deciding our fate, as far as getting care goes, and influencing policy, which dictates funding for medical research. So even if I'd rather not care, I can't afford that luxury
 

AlwaysTired

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Lawyers have a reputation of being scum, but I see no reason why doctors (with exceptions, obviously) should not be looked at with the same scrutiny. Until doctors are stopped being looked at as heroes and geniuses, the incentive for them to actually do their jobs will continue being low.
Yes, and a big part of this is what they're told in school, which is told to them so they persevere through the brutal hazing that is residency. The medical education system needs to be overhauled, first and foremost, from the rampant abuse of residents by their superiors, to the 80 hour work weeks that young doctors face.

I don't know necessarily think seeing them as heroes is an issue- I mean, we see firemen as heroes and that hasn't made them careless or callous people. And some docs (the good ones) are. It's the God complex that some have which makes them arrogant and feeling they're beyond criticism of anyone that isn't their superiors.
 

AlwaysTired

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Yes we have put doctors on a pedestal, kissing their ass or ring or whatever Because we thought they had the power to give life or take it away. My generation and family especially believe this and doctors in my area don’t consider ME a real disease and think that it is all in your head and you are psychologically disturbed. So my friends and family think that too.
I'm sorry you're facing that. That's awful. That narrative is perpetuated in medical education and residency, namely for those going into specialities higher up in the hierarchy (it's the most prevalent in surgeons who are at the top). The narrative, and the educational approach needs to be overhauled
 

Mary

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Hey Mary,

The comment I see under yours is a few days old. Did someone reply to you? BTW, I love what you said.
The other day this was posted almost directly under my comment:
You mean the documentary that chronicles those with untreated Mental Health problems?
and I assumed it was referring to Unrest or Forgotten Plague, which I had plugged in my comment. However, the above comment is now placed well away from my comment, so I don't know, maybe it wasn't in response to me; either way I just didn't want to try to reply, no point with a mind that closed!
 

Mel9

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Medicine is moving towards a collaborative model (of doctors and patients working together) which is why I was surprised to see these young docs talking/thinking like their predecessors
I wonder what sort of doctors they are? Are they, perhaps, the cohort that just scraped in (50 perc) to pass most of their undergraduate subjects?
 

AlwaysTired

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I wonder what sort of doctors they are? Are they, perhaps, the cohort that just scraped in (50 perc) to pass most of their undergraduate subjects?
Whether that's the case or not, they're doctors all the same, unleashed on the public and having the power to help or harm us
 

sb4

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We can counteract that narrative though. They are young and therefore not set in their ways yet.
I absolutely agree with this, although I was talking about the people in the comment section, I did not watch the documentary. You can occasionally change the minds of people on Reddit or at least plant the seed. With doctors I think our power to change their minds is limited. The governing bodies like NICE have for much more power to do that.

This is a petition to have Afflicted removed from Netflix. I posted it to the petitions section as well:
https://www.change.org/p/netflix-remove-afflicted-from-netflix/w?source_location=psf_petitions
I'm not sure banning it is the right way. I really don't like how there is a tendency these days to ban things we disagree with.
 

lafarfelue

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I'm not sure banning it is the right way. I really don't like how there is a tendency these days to ban things we disagree with.
Having it removed is absolutely the morally right thing to do. A centrist, 'moderate' approach emboldens fascists, encourages corporatisation($$$) of public services and keeps harmful practices in place that harm millions of people.
 

sb4

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Having it removed is absolutely the morally right thing to do. A centrist, 'moderate' approach emboldens fascists, encourages corporatisation($$$) of public services and keeps harmful practices in place that harm millions of people.
I have to disagree with you here. I don't know why fascism is brought into this but wouldn't it be more fascist to ban things you don't agree with?

I think the best way is to comment on it's flaws and leave it a bad rating. Besides if you petition to get it band then that could make it look worse to the layman. "Oh they where just butthurt that a documentary was telling a truth so they banned it instead of arguing against it".
 

lafarfelue

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I have to disagree with you here. I don't know why fascism is brought into this but wouldn't it be more fascist to ban things you don't agree with?

I think the best way is to comment on it's flaws and leave it a bad rating. Besides if you petition to get it band then that could make it look worse to the layman. "Oh they where just butthurt that a documentary was telling a truth so they banned it instead of arguing against it".
We as ME/CFS patients do not have the power here. (Also, see the paradox of tolerance.)

If it were as easy as leaving a review and putting forward a rational argument, we as a medical minority group wouldn't be scrabbling and desperately searching (for DECADES) for any kind of treatment that would bring us relief, let alone be worried about the genral public and medical community disrespecting and disenfranchising us further.

Let's not allow the people who call patients like us 'muppets' etc in medical settings be enabled and empowered to behave this way or worse.. because this is already doing that and it's only been out for a couple of weeks at the most.