How to taper (or discontinue) a paradoxical benzodiazepine ? (clonazepam)

[pspa123]

From the Benzo FAQ put together by the moderators of the Yahoo group I mentioned.

25. WHAT ABOUT HERBS AND OTHER HOMEOPATHIC REMEDIES - DO ANY OF THOSE HELP THE WITHDRAWAL SYMPTOMS?
This is one of the most asked questions. "Should I take amino acids? Will magnesium help me? What about the 'detoxing' juices or products that contain groups of supplements? Can I use some Vitamin B to help? What about Omega 3 Oils?"
We would love to be able to name the product or plan that will help everyone, but we can't. What we have seen on the benzo support groups in the past several years is a mixed bag of responses after people have tried virtually everything that can be marketed and sold.
Some people have taken magnesium and it seems to help their muscle pain. Some people swear by the B vitamins. Some people believe that certain products have gotten them well in a month.
However, there has been and continues to be overwhelming empirical evidence on the groups that people on benzodiazepines can react quite badly to almost anything they try to add in to help themselves. This doesn't mean that everyone who adds in something will have a bad result. But we have seen enough of these bad results to have a real desire to advise extreme caution when trying any of these products.
Someone asked what bad results we were talking about. We are talking about having an increase in benzodiazepine withdrawal symptoms that can last days, weeks, or even months. This is really not surprising since we are talking about a very delicate nervous system, in a heightened state of overdrive from withdrawal, being hit by any number of things that interact with the brain across the blood/brain barrier.

 

[Oci]

Have a look at benzobuddies.org. Lots of info there.

 

[Braz]

@pspa123

Thanks. I don't live in the USA, so I can't use that list. Actually, for me clonazepam is the longest acting benzo. Which would complicate switching to diazepam ... Too bad that yahoo group doesn't exist anymore.
Usually, in the case of paradoxical reactions a benzo is to be discontinued immediately, but after long term use ...

@Oci,

I have. It's a bit limited in many ways. 'go slow' 'Ashton this, Ashton that'. Paradoxical reactions after long term use and diazepam is hard at best ?
People usually don't want to be confronted with other people challenging what they believe in (e.g. Ashton calling diazepam 'long acting' because of its half life, ignoring the concept of 'duration of action' or 'biological activity', blood levels isn't everything)

I have been asking the question about 'paradoxical reactions' but couldn't get a response anywhere ... Actually, part of the way this drug is to hard to endure and to taper is because of my health ... tapering clonazepam is an Olympic sport for me.

 

[pspa123]

Dr. David Healy is in the U.K. he has a website, perhaps he has a clinician he could recommend, or would have general advice. He is certainly an expert on drugs and withdrawal, his focus is on SSRIs but he also knows benzos.

There is also Joanna Moncrief who has written a number of books, I don't know if she is an academic or also a clinician, but worth a try if you are in a bad way.

it looks like Healy, or doctors working with him, does offer consults.
https://econsult.rxisk.org/

 

[Braz]

@pspa123,

Thank you for that. His website says he has a busy schedule. I hope he doesn't refer me to 'RxISK eCONSULT' because I also know that the drug is the problem, and the fee would be rather high for something that is no solution.

 

[pspa123]

Respectfully, you are in a fairly unique situation and not one anyone on a message board is going to be able to competently advise you on, so an expert on drug withdrawal like Healy may be your best hope. Best of luck to you, and I do hope you won't start randomly self-medicating with supplements, the brain is incredibly complex (even one not on benzos) and with all respect to the people here I don't think most of them really are qualified to talk about how supplement X affects neurotransmitter Y etc.

 

[edawg81]

I'll make this quick. I did a water titration and got off Klonopin and learned a lot in process. I was originally on 1 mg a day and was able to taper off in 18 months. It was rough doing a dry taper but doable until i hit .125mg after that I had to use water and went down .0025 mg per day. It actually went very smoothly once I was accurate and gradual about my water taper. I also felt great after getting off. This was before I got a really a really bad cfs/me flare, since that flare/episode I'm back on Klonopin and hate it but its treating a lot of my severe symptoms currently.

 

[pspa123]

Here is a resource about using flumazenil for rapid benzo withdrawal. I make no claims for this, but you did mention you think you need to come off quickly so maybe even though this is a US organization they could give you some general advice or point you to a UK resource.
http://thecolemaninstitute.com/treatment-options/benzo-detox/faqs

My final suggestion is to contact the person identified in this link, she used to be the moderator of the aforementioned Yahoo group and she is extremely knowledgeable.

http://www.benzosupport.org/about_this_site.htm

I would like to help as best I can as I am very sympathetic to people trying to come off benzos, and mindful of the bad advice people can get on forums even if well-intentioned, but I get the sense from your response about Dr. Healy who I still think may be your best bet that you are going to reject whatever I can offer. So I will sign off and say best wishes.

 

[Braz]

@pspa123,

Thank you for the suggestion. I did contact Healey, but as I stated I got the message that he was very busy or something like that. RiskE (spelling?) is very expensive and it sort of helps you discover if your problems are related to the drug, which I already know.

I did study flumazenil as an option, various studies and experiences of people. It doesn't seem like a viable option for my situation.

I'm not sure if that moderator will respond, but I did try to contact her.

Also, I agree that self medicating with supplements is not without risks. On the other hand, I haven't been able to find a single expert who was actually available. Even Malcom Lader 'retired, cannot give clinical advice, have you read benzo.org.uk'.

 

[pspa123]

Risk says it also helps with how to withdraw.
"How can I reduce or eliminate one or more of my medications?"

and this
"We evaluate each case on an individual basis to determine if we feel our services can be of benefit to you before requesting more information or payment."

 

[Braz]

Giving this thread a bump.

I know it is hard ... I've reached out, and it is a difficult subject.