How to lower glutamate? Pharmacologics?

[adreno]

Lotus97, post: 362039, member: 8815"]Why you prefer NAD over NADH?

Well, this is complex biochemistry, but the idea is that a high NAD/NADH ratio is what you want, not the other way around. Among other things this affects SIRT1 activation, which impacts longevity.

 

[Lotus97]

Since I'm sort of brainfogged (and might not understand it completely) and also because NAD is cheaper than NADH I'll just take your word for it then

 

[xchocoholic]

Fwiw, all chemicals depend on co-factors / catalysts to convert to other chemicals. So it's
impossible to say x converts to y without acknowledging that this only happens if all
co-factors are present. And yet I hear this all the time.

We don't all have those enzymes or aminos available for converting x to y. Those of us with
digestive problems may not have the aminos or enzymes needed. I need strong digestive
enzymes just to get my food digested. Not all celiacs heal.

Also, we need to keep in mind that the amounts of certain other chemicals in our bodies come into play here too.
We all know that there's a chemical in grapefruit juice that interfers with the absorption
of certain meds but what other chemicals do this ? Mercury ..

Ok it's early and my brain just died, Lol, but do you see what I' trying to say. This person probably can't
use supplements right now because his digestion is hosed.

Tc ... X

 

[Thinktank]

I'm a celiac so I have leaky gut too. I've been treating this since 2005 but since gluten is literally everywhere, I'm not seeing the improvements I had hoped for. It took me 6 months to be able to eat anything without feeling like I was eating glass. I can eat more foods now but then if I eat too much of one food, I become intolerant to it. But basically, I'm functional now except for orthostatic intolerance and PEM.

You may want to look at the mast cell info on this. I'm eating more foods right now and not reacting. kow .. Just to make this easy for you, those of us on the mast cell protocal take either supplements or otc allergy meds. What works for one may not work for someone else so you have to try these. From what I've read a specialist will just have you experiment with meds too. I chose allergy meds since I was having anaphylaxis. I started out with a lot of different meds, Benadryl esp and now my daily med is Walgreen's Zyrtec 5 mg several times a day. Typically 20 - 30 mg per day.

I feel better mentally if I take Himalaya Liver Care every morning. My liver seems to need this.

NAC supplements worked for awhile but don't anymore. I noticed NAC helping first when drinking a detox drink that had NAC in it. The first couple of bottles helped but then it's a waste of money.

Avoiding taking chemicals that cause brain fog help too. Even 1 tsp of children's benadryl slows me down. Taking 10 mg of Zyrtec at once as opposed to 5 mg wipes me out too.

And I've found out over the years that both having an infection and treating one turns my brain to mush. I only start feeling better once it's cleared and I have enough good bacteria back in my gut.

Not to overwhelm you but nicotine appears to help me with brainfog / multi tasking. I can watch tv and type when I'm on this. If you google nicotine benefits you'll find articles on this. They're seeing success with this on Alzheimer's patients. I was smoking one cig a day and that helped so I'm now experimenting with nicorette 2 mg lozengers. Since I'm responding to a low dose, I'm going to stick with a low dose by stopping it every few days.

hope you feel better soon ... X

I've taken zyrtec and loads of other antihistamines in the past for my pollen allergy but i can't tolerate it! Antihistamines make me very sleepy and numb but they do the trick allergy-wise. I have to say i do notice some benefits when on antihistamines like skin-improvement, a complete halt of my hair loss (alopecia androgenetica) and the irritated feeling in my eyes is less.
Spring time / early summer in the Netherlands is HELL for me. I now live in Thailand and my pollen allergy has never popped up since being here.

I took the antihistamines many years ago when i didn't have these serious gut problems yet. Maybe i should try zyrtec or any other next generation antihistamine just to see if it has any effect on my CFS symptoms. The mast-cell theory sounds interesting.

I too have some kind of abnormality in the liver. It's called von Meyenburg complex which is basicly a formation of innumerable small cysts in the left and right lobe. I suspect this impairs my liver function like creating certain enzymes and especially blocking bile flow (which showed low on my CDSA).This all leading to accumulation of toxins and digestive issues etc.... But try to discuss that with a conventional doctor....

NAC works well for me too but i get a bit anxious and stressed after a few days of using it.

Have you tried nicotinamide? I read somewhere it's similar to nicotine.

 

[Thinktank]

Exactly. I was this way too. I could only take a few select supplements after treating my leaky gut for about 2 years. Watching my diet helped the most.

Have you tried digestive enzymes yet ? I could only eat papaya, mango and pineapple in the beginning but now 8 years later, I take Creon, a prescription digestive enzyme, and a few Enzymedica products. I've found that Candidase and Virastop work well if food feels like it's stuck in my stomach. I use Glutenease or Country Life gluten-zyme for gluten cross contamination.

Once I could tolerated supplements I was fine with most as long as they didn't contain my food intolerances. The supplements I'm on now I found via years of trial and error.

Sorry for giving you so much info at one time and being such a pest. HTH ... X

Yes i've tried digestive enzymes. One formula that gave me a few "clear" moments was NOW's super enzymes. Unfortunately i had to discontinue using it because i'm intollerant to some of the proteolitic enzymes. For a while i thought it was because of the betaine HCL in it, i tried supplementing betaine HCL but that caused a major gastritis flare.
Creon helped me very well during my last flare but i fear it might make the inflammation worse if used longterm
so I'm going to try enzymedica's gold enzymes soon.

You've been most helpful Keep the info coming, one has to educate itself to improve.

 

[Thinktank]

There's also some information in this thread about glutamate
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/high-glutamate.17536/

Thanks, i'll check it out.

 

[xchocoholic]

I've taken zyrtec and loads of other antihistamines in the past for my pollen allergy but i can't tolerate it! Antihistamines make me very sleepy and numb but they do the trick allergy-wise. I have to say i do notice some benefits when on antihistamines like skin-improvement, a complete halt of my hair loss (alopecia androgenetica) and the irritated feeling in my eyes is less.
Spring time / early summer in the Netherlands is HELL for me. I now live in Thailand and my pollen allergy has never popped up since being here.

I took the antihistamines many years ago when i didn't have these serious gut problems yet. Maybe i should try zyrtec or any other next generation antihistamine just to see if it has any effect on my CFS symptoms. The mast-cell theory sounds interesting.

I too have some kind of abnormality in the liver. It's called von Meyenburg complex which is basicly a formation of innumerable small cysts in the left and right lobe. I suspect this impairs my liver function like creating certain enzymes and especially blocking bile flow (which showed low on my CDSA).This all leading to accumulation of toxins and digestive issues etc.... But try to discuss that with a conventional doctor....

NAC works well for me too but i get a bit anxious and stressed after a few days of using it.

Have you tried nicotinamide? I read somewhere it's similar to nicotine.

I haven't found mast cell problems to be the cause of my CFS but I certainly have a lot of allergies. I'm a celiac with leaky gut and multiple food and chemical intolerances, so the low histamine diet (which is recommended for those with mast cell problems) won't work for me. Then add kidney stones and pelvic pain and wallah, I'm on the low oxalate diet too. BTW, from what I've seen, my symptoms are common for those with leaky gut.

H1 antihistamines knock me out too if I take the recommended dose. One 25 mg Vistaril put me in a semi coma for 3 days. I'm ok with 1/2 a Chidren's chewable or 1/2 - 1 tsp of the Dye free Liquid Benadryl during the day. I don't know why the liquid makes me sleepier than the chewable. Maybe it's because I allow the chewable to slowly disolve in my mouth so I'm not getting the full dose right away.

Walgreen's brand zyrtec makes me less drowsy than the name brand. Taking 5mg at a time never makes me drowsy but 10 mg does. From what I've seen taking H2 allergy meds throughout the day is what mast cell specialists tell their patients. In fact some people are taking a lot more meds than I am. I've experimented with quite a few but settled on Wal-zyr. Allegra and Nasalcrom dry me out too much so I only take these during an allergy attack (non stop runny nose, etc).

I take 10mg Wal-zyr at bedtime. If you're interested Walgreens has this med on their website but I'm not sure how the mail works where you are. I'd try taking a lesser dose more often of whatever you have first tho.

Sorry to hear you have cysts in your liver. Do you have a doctor to discuss your CDSA with ? They'd probably know about liver enzymes. My freind with liver damage told me about the Himalaya liver care. I've been on it for several years now. I tried drinking warm lemon water in the morning but that only led to my teeth becoming sensitive.

Nicotinamide is B3, right ? I didn't notice the same affects from nicotinamide as I do from nicotine. Sadly, the cig is working better than the lozenger too.

 

[xchocoholic]

Yes i've tried digestive enzymes. One formula that gave me a few "clear" moments was NOW's super enzymes. Unfortunately i had to discontinue using it because i'm intollerant to some of the proteolitic enzymes. For a while i thought it was because of the betaine HCL in it, i tried supplementing betaine HCL but that caused a major gastritis flare.
Creon helped me very well during my last flare but i fear it might make the inflammation worse if used longterm
so I'm going to try enzymedica's gold enzymes soon.

You've been most helpful Keep the info coming, one has to educate itself to improve.

I'm stuck with taking Creon for now and maybe forever. I'm 57 tho and my CDSAs are showing that I'm low on digestive enzymes. Creon is very expensive over here and luckily my insurance covers it but they wouldn't pay
until I'd already tried the OTC enzymes. My dr just increased mine from 1 at meals to 2 and that's helped a great deal too.

Why do you think these would make your inflamation worse ? They're just working on the food in your digestive tract. I understand why people who have these enzymes shouldn't use these but those who don't have these need to supplement. Or don't eat ... lol ...

The Enzymedica Gold wasn't enough for me. If you look at Candidase and Virastop you'll see how high their protease count is. These didn't work as well as Creon is for me either tho. I only take these in addition to my creon if it feels like food is stuck in my digestive tract. These and Natural Calm keep food moving through me.

Hope I didn't bore you with my digestive problems. I just thought if you've been on Creon you may be having similiar problems. tc ... x

 

[Living Dead]

xchocoholic, already doing that I'm on the GAPS diet so no MSG additives in my food.

Wikipedia says the GAPS diet contains bone broth. Broth is very high in glutamate. Also, meat and fish actually contains glutamate.

My gut is very leaky and i have developed high sensitivities to more than 50 common foods.

This is kind of a not-confirmed thing, but if you don't have any other options you might have luck with a short corticosteroid course together with glutamine (without glutamine steroids just make you more leaky). Such as 40 mg methylprednisolone a day, halved every 20 days.

 

[Thinktank]

Wikipedia says the GAPS diet contains bone broth. Broth is very high in glutamate. Also, meat and fish actually contains glutamate.

I googled it but can't find any proof that bone broth is high in glutamate, just a few people mentioning it on forums.
It guess the glutamate content of the broth will also depend on which type of meat / bone it's made from, chicken, beef, lamb etc.

This is kind of a not-confirmed thing, but if you don't have any other options you might have luck with a short corticosteroid course together with glutamine (without glutamine steroids just make you more leaky). Such as 40 mg methylprednisolone a day, halved every 20 days.

For me it is, i've experimented with an elimination diet and the IgG testing results were kinda spot on.
Funny i tried 10mg prednisone yesterday just a few hours before your posting. I've low cortisol and high DHEA values. So i gave it a shot after reading it lowers DHEA and elevates cortisol. First 2 hours it gave me brain fog but after that i had high energy for the rest of the day.

 

[Thinktank]

I haven't found mast cell problems to be the cause of my CFS but I certainly have a lot of allergies. I'm a celiac with leaky gut and multiple food and chemical intolerances, so the low histamine diet (which is recommended for those with mast cell problems) won't work for me. Then add kidney stones and pelvic pain and wallah, I'm on the low oxalate diet too. BTW, from what I've seen, my symptoms are common for those with leaky gut.

Ha, we have quite a bit in common. I also had kidney stones in the past. Being a male it was freaking painful to pass the stones!

Sorry to hear you have cysts in your liver. Do you have a doctor to discuss your CDSA with ? They'd probably know about liver enzymes. My freind with liver damage told me about the Himalaya liver care. I've been on it for several years now. I tried drinking warm lemon water in the morning but that only led to my teeth becoming sensitive.

Nicotinamide is B3, right ? I didn't notice the same affects from nicotinamide as I do from nicotine. Sadly, the cig is working better than the lozenger too.

The cysts are "benign" as they say but i'm sure they cause complications for example blocking the bile flow.
I have an appointment with a GI doc next week who seems to know a thing or two about the CDSA test.

Yes nicotinamide is B3 and chemically close to nicotine, at least that's what i found out.

 

[Thinktank]

Why do you think these would make your inflamation worse ? They're just working on the food in your digestive tract. I understand why people who have these enzymes shouldn't use these but those who don't have these need to supplement. Or don't eat ... lol ...

There's a chance of fibrosing colonopathy. I experienced pain in the small bowel after a few weeks, the pain subsided a few days after i discontinued the use of creon. I believe high dose proteases can cause bowel irritation in some people.
But when i was using the creon my stool looked much more digested and formed, i also gained a few kilo's which is very unusual for me. My latest CDSA shows i don't need to supplement digestive enzymes but i don't agree with that because the only thing i do seem to digest well is protein and certain carbohydrates. Fibrous stuff like most vegetables come out as whole lol.

The Enzymedica Gold wasn't enough for me. If you look at Candidase and Virastop you'll see how high their protease count is. These didn't work as well as Creon is for me either tho. I only take these in addition to my creon if it feels like food is stuck in my digestive tract. These and Natural Calm keep food moving through me.

Hope I didn't bore you with my digestive problems. I just thought if you've been on Creon you may be having similiar problems. tc ... x

Good to hear the creon is working well for you. I rather go for a more functional approach and see supplementing with digestive enzymes as a temporary solution.

Have you ever had an MRI of the upper abdomen? If you are low on digestive enzymes in the CDSA maybe you should have an MRI of your pancreas? Maybe test for lipase, amylase and protease in blood?

 

[xchocoholic]

Kidney stones too. Yikes. My condolensces. I get them everytime I try eating too many nuts. Been there
Done that. Won't try it ever again. Lol. My last experience landed me in the er with pyleonephritis. Then
I took a flouroquinolone that made my shoulders and knees go out. I'm still recovering.

Candidase will break up the veggies for you. I'm not sure we want that tho. Our bodies
don't naturally have cellulase. I see this in my stools too tho.

I haven't had my pancreas looked at but I'm taking a break from finding new problems right
now. If I went to a place like the Mayo Clinic right now, they'd have me seeing every specialist
and I'd never get out. Lol.

Have you looked at parasites, etc yet ?

I started a parasite cleanse and metronidazole last week to see if it helps my digestion. I'm actually
re-treating two serious infections I had last year dx via metametrix.

Active b3 doesn't effect me at all from what I could tell. The effects from Nicotine are immediate.

 

[physicsstudent13]

so taking B3/B complex or methylfolate can help brain fog? my fog is returning it's terrible after I demasked on the ventilator and took a GABA/tryptophan supplement. maybe Alteril or glutamine isn't good and causes fog. IBS can cause fog also-I take bentyl for IBS once in a while

 

[pomegranate]

I googled it but can't find any proof that bone broth is high in glutamate, just a few people mentioning it on forums.
It guess the glutamate content of the broth will also depend on which type of meat / bone it's made from, chicken, beef, lamb etc.

Please let me assure you that bone broth is VERY HIGH in glutamate. I love it, but it gives me my glutamate migraine, so I have yo avoid it. Broth from chicken bones is the worst (and the best, yum). Why do you think it's so yummy? It's all that free glutamate, umami, as the Japanese call it.

 

[Valentijn]

I googled it but can't find any proof that bone broth is high in glutamate, just a few people mentioning it on forums.
It guess the glutamate content of the broth will also depend on which type of meat / bone it's made from, chicken, beef, lamb etc.

Commercial broths usually have free glutamic acid (MSG/E621) as the primary ingredient. Bound glutamate in meats, and in broths made from meats, shouldn't be problematic.[/QUOTE]

 

[Natassha]

If you have high glutamate, according to Amy Yasko, from Autism: Pathways to Recovery, pp 99-102: "Foods to Avoid Sources of MSG Hydrolyzed protein or hydrolyzed oat flour Sodium caseinate or calcium caseinate Autolyzed yeast or yeast extract Gelatin Glutamic acid Monosodium glutamate Ajinomoto Autolyzed anything Autolyzed yeast Autolyzed yeast extract Bouillon Broth Calcium caseinate Carrageenan (or vegetable gum) Caseinate Chicken/pork/beef “base” Chicken/pork/beef “flavoring” Disodium caseinate Disodium guanylate Disodium inosinate Dough conditioner(s) Gelatin Glutamate Guar gum Hydrolyzed anything Hydrolyzed oat flour Hydrolyzed plant protein Hydrolyzed protein Hydrolyzed vegetable protein Kombu extract Malt extract Malt flavoring(s) Malted anything Malted barely flour. Malted barley/barley malt Maltodextrin Meat flavorings (chicken, beef etc.) Monosodium glutamate Natural flavor(s) Natural flavoring(s) Nutrasweet/aspartame Plant protein extract 1-cysteine Seasoned salt Seasoning(s) or spices Smoke flavoring(s) Sodium caseinate Soup base Soy extract Soy protein Soy protein concentrate Soy protein isolate Soy sauce Spice mixes that contain glutamate or MSG as an ingredient Stock Textured protein Vegetable gum Whey protein Whey protein concentrate Whey protein isolate Yeast extract.

Foods That Damage the Nerves Anything enzyme modified Anything fermented Anything protein fortified Anything ultra-pasteurized Anything vitamin enriched Anything with corn syrup added Anything with milk solids Baked goods from bakeries Barbeque sauce Certain brands of cold cuts/hot dogs Body builder protein mixes Bottled spaghetti sauce Boullion (any kind) Canned and smoked tuna, oysters, clams Canned soups (certain brands) Canned refried beans Canned, frozen, or dry entrees and potpies Caramel flavoring/coloring Catsup Cereals Chili sauce Chocolates/Candy bars Citric acid (when processed from corn) Cornstarch Corn chips (certain brands) Dough conditioners Dry milk or whey powder Egg substitutes Flavored chips (certain brands) Flavored teas, sodas Flour Flowing agents Fresh and frozen pizza Fresh produce sprayed with Auxigro—instead choose organically grown produce Fried chicken from fast food sources Frostings and fillings Gelatin Gravy Master Instant soup mixes/Stocks Kombu extract L-cysteine Low-fat/Diet foods Many salad dressings/Croutons Mayonnaise Molasses Most salty, powdered dry food mixes 102 Autism: Pathways to Recovery Mustards Non-dairy creamers Parmesan cheese Pectin Pickles Salted peanuts (certain brands) Powdered soup and sauce mixes (certain brands) Processed cheese spread Ramen noodles Restaurant gravy from food service cans Restaurant soups made from food service Soup base Sausages/Processed meats/Cold cuts Seasoned anything Skim, 1%, 2%, non-fat, or dry milk Some bagged salads and vegetables Some peanut butters Some spices Soy sauce Supermarket turkey & chicken (injected) Table salts Tofu and other fermented soy products Tomato sauce/Stewed tomatoes Whipped cream topping substitutes Worcestershire sauce Xanthan gum/other “gums”