How to create more stomach acid?

[ebethc]

Hi @ebethc betaine is trimethyl glycine a methyl doner, I am really not up on all the methylation stuff but that could be part of the wide awake thing.

I find that it works really well for me. I had about 12 yrs of SIBO bubbling away every night like a fermentation vessel and having lots of pain from trapped gasses.

I tried a lot of dietary modification and probiotics and so on, following advice from people such as Dr Myhill and Grace Liu's on SIBO but found that for me that betaine HCL was the last step in solving SIBO.

At the time I was eating a low available carbohydrate high fibre diet with probiotics, ox bile and digestive enzymes. When I started on the betaine HCL I needed 7 x 650mg tablets per meal I am now (two years later) down to 3 - 4 tablets per meal.

Acid does a lot, it enables you to better absorb nutrients and triggers the release of bile and digestive enzymes. For people who are treated soon it may well be enough to set them on a path to recovery. But when I got rid of the SIBO I still had issues with digestion.

I was still producing food coloured stools whenever I stopped taking the ox bile, and that only changed when I was treated for B hominis in December last year (triple therapy), and the stools were mostly bristol 7 for all of that time are getting much closer to bristol 4 now that I am taking antifungals.

I think most of my microbes must have been fungi. My slurries (thick bristol 7s) had been very well fermented and my very occasional stools had just floated as they are meant to. When I started taking nystatin I went to mostly bristol 2 - 4 and everything sank without any sign of fermentation.

... I also suspect that my sinuses were perhaps providing a resevoir for the fungi and bacteria that were a problem. I had very much improved stools when taking dental probiotics and oral nilstat last year, and am currently on a complicated regimen of nasal rinses and swabs and antifungal and probiotics to try to deal with this source of chronic infection.

One other issue re digestion that you may wish to look at is choline. To work properly the gut also has to move properly. http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...se-acetylcholine-at-low-cost-naturally.46037/.

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Great feedback, Richard! I was hoping that I am slowly but surely "reverse engineering" my problems... e.g. Killing gut bugs/SIBO until I get to root cause - digestive problems

Do u like bile better than betaine? Btw, great insight re methylation... I went down that road a couple of years ago w testing and protocols w/o a ton of success but it was still interesting to find some issues, e.g. Glycine, choline... Sam-e was helpful for awhile, prob because it degrades histamine - which is a huge issue for me

I'm not familiar Bristol testing ... what is it?

What did u use to kill SIBO? I used herbs, which has been effective... I'd like to do more...

What do u use in your sinuses? (If anything) I have a Neti pot and would like to find some anti microbial herbs for sinuses similar to what I used in my gut... currently just using cromolyn- saline wash.

What do you know about systemic enzymes? Wobenzym has been a big turning point for me... when inflammation is down, I feel like a normal person, at least for a few hours a day... the enzymes are pancreatic (in part) and they help dissolve protein particles & cytokines

Lol re the SIBO bubbling away... that's just what it feels like

 

[ebethc]

Green tea works pretty well in that area.

... creates stomach acid??

 

[slysaint]

I have lemon juice, and apple cider vinegar and a bit of bicarb (+vit C)every morning (before breakfast) in half a pint of water. But not for any of the reasons listed on this thread. No burping though.

 

[ebethc]

@slysaint
Does the acid in the juice and vinegar affect your tooth enamel?

I thought bicarbonate was baking soda... not vitamin c... is vitamin c really alkaline? Does it diminish stomach acid?

 

[arewenearlythereyet]

@slysaint
Does the acid in the juice and vinegar affect your tooth enamel?

I thought bicarbonate was baking soda... not vitamin c... is vitamin c really alkaline? Does it diminish stomach acid?

Baking soda is the same as bicarbonate of soda which is alkaline not acid? The reason why you burp with it is that the HCl in the stomach reacts with it to produce carbon dioxide

 

[Basilico]

Do u like bile better than betaine?

Not sure if you already know this, but HCl is necessary to digest protein while bile is necessary to digest fats.

 

[ebethc]

Not sure if you already know this, but HCl is necessary to digest protein while bile is necessary to digest fats.

Ahh .. no, I didn't know! So it make sense to take both

The gall bladder produces bile, and the stomach produces HCL, correct?

 

[ebethc]

Baking soda is the same as bicarbonate of soda which is alkaline not acid? The reason why you burp with it is that the HCl in the stomach reacts with it to produce carbon dioxide

But what does vitamin c have to do w bicarbonate? That's what I don't understand..

 

[Basilico]

Ahh .. no, I didn't know! So it make sense to take both

The gall bladder produces bile, and the stomach produces HCL, correct?

Yes.

It makes sense to take HCl if you are having issues with digesting protein or you feel in general that food tends to sit in your stomach for longer than it should.

It makes sense to take bile if you are having issues digesting fats.

If you are having issues with digesting both and you are eating a combo of fat and protein (like many meat/fish dishes) then taking both HCl and bile sounds like a good idea.

But what does vitamin c have to do w bicarbonate? That's what I don't understand..

Vitamin C (ascorbic acid) is acidic and doesn't have anything to do with sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) which is alkaline. What specifically is confusing?

 

[Mary]

I have lemon juice, and apple cider vinegar and a bit of bicarb (+vit C)every morning (before breakfast) in half a pint of water. But not for any of the reasons listed on this thread. No burping though.

The bicarbonate will neutralize stomach acid ..... so if you take it right before breakfast, probably not a good idea. And no burping with sodium bicarbonate is an indication of low stomach acid.

I had taken betaine HCL with pepsin for years and the last year or 2 cut way back, thinking I didn't need it any more. My digestion seemed okay but my fingernails (never that strong to begin with) got very weak, breaking all the time. I was taking every bone supplement I could think (I had also cracked a rib when it really should not have happened ) so was getting concerned and all my bone supps didn't seem to make a difference.

And then I had a lightbulb moment - it came to me that perhaps I was not absorbing all the stuff I was taking because of low stomach acid, so I started back on the HCl with pepsin maybe 4 weeks ago, can't remember exactly, and bingo! my nails are finally getting stronger - whew! which makes me feel a little better about my bones too!

 

[ebethc]

@Mary

What does pepsin do? Interesting... I've always had weak nails!

Hope you're well!

 

[arewenearlythereyet]

But what does vitamin c have to do w bicarbonate? That's what I don't understand..

Vitamin c is probably taken to aid absorption of iron and nothing specifically to do with increasing stomach acidity

Pepsin is a digestive enzyme concerned with digesting proteins it needs hcl to work effectively

 

[Mary]

@Mary

What does pepsin do? Interesting... I've always had weak nails!

Hope you're well!

I didn't know exactly why pepsin was important, I had just read somewhere that it was important to take HCL with pepsin. And @arewenearlythereyet explains above why - I read a little about it just now, and the pepsin is needed to digest proteins, as well as HCL. A lot of products contain both. This is what I take: https://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-premium-hydrochloric-acid-pepsin-250-caps

I think I would be doing better than usual (am not sure why!) which would be very nice, but I've been dealing with some severe insomnia which I'm trying to get under control (hopefully soon!) So then I'll know better how I am, right now it's just a little hard to tell

My nails are quite a bit better, which is nice. I've been taking Rainbow Light food-based calcium, magnesium glycinate, strontium, vitamin K2 (I forget whether it's Mk7 or 4), lots D3, I think that's it, for bones, but it finally seems to be making difference since starting the HCL, after months of no results.

Hope you're doing okay

 

[Gondwanaland]

The other day I seasoned my dinner with a smidgen of raw fenugreek powder, and the acidity in my stomach raised so quickly that I had to take sodium bicarb right after dinner because I was having GERD. It supposedly raises histamine in the digestive track so raising stomach acid

 

[mhrps]

... creates stomach acid??

It stimulates stomach to create acid

 

[Richard7]

1st) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_stool_scale it is just a way of describing stools.

2)The acid is necessary to digest protein and to absorb a lot of nutrients, but it also triggers the release of whatever bile and digestive enzymes you are producing.

The bile and the enzymes work together on the fats, the bile breaks the fats down into managable pieces that the enzymes then work on. Bile kills a lot of bacteria which is one of the ways it helps with SIBO. Most of it is readsorbed by the end of the small intestine. Only a small amount makes it to the large intestine but it is this bile that makes your stools brown and allows you to dump fat soluable waste products and pharmaceuticals.

If you are taking acid (and thus releasing whatever bile you are producing) and you eat a tub of yoghurt (for example) and then pass a white stool you clearly do not have anywhere near enough bile. If you are not producing enough bile you will also have stools that are fatty and leave residue stuck to the toilet bowl.

If you take too much bile you will end up with loose stools (bristol 5-7) I expect that this is because the bile is killing of the large intestine bacteria (like when you take too much vitamin C) but I am not sure, I just know it as a sign to watch out for.

 

[ebethc]

The other day I seasoned my dinner with a smidgen of raw fenugreek powder, and the acidity in my stomach raised so quickly that I had to take sodium bicarb right after dinner because I was having GERD. It supposedly raises histamine in the digestive track so raising stomach acid

Can u raise acid without raising histamine?

 

[Richard7]

Can u raise acid without raising histamine?

yes, the acid release is triggered by h2 histamine receptors. So an antihistamine that works on h2 receptors will recduce stomach acidity. And an increase in histamine could I guess increase it, it makes sense, but only if you had the energy to produce the acid.

 

[ebethc]

1st) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_stool_scale it is just a way of describing stools.

2)The acid is necessary to digest protein and to absorb a lot of nutrients, but it also triggers the release of whatever bile and digestive enzymes you are producing.

The bile and the enzymes work together on the fats, the bile breaks the fats down into managable pieces that the enzymes then work on. Bile kills a lot of bacteria which is one of the ways it helps with SIBO. Most of it is readsorbed by the end of the small intestine. Only a small amount makes it to the large intestine but it is this bile that makes your stools brown and allows you to dump fat soluable waste products and pharmaceuticals.

If you are taking acid (and thus releasing whatever bile you are producing) and you eat a tub of yoghurt (for example) and then pass a white stool you clearly do not have anywhere near enough bile. If you are not producing enough bile you will also have stools that are fatty and leave residue stuck to the toilet bowl.

If you take too much bile you will end up with loose stools (bristol 5-7) I expect that this is because the bile is killing of the large intestine bacteria (like when you take too much vitamin C) but I am not sure, I just know it as a sign to watch out for.

Interesting... I'm constipated or regular, and consistency is like a #6

Wobenzym (proteolytic enzymes, "systemic enzymes") have been a godsend... I don't know if this means I don't produce enough pancreatic enzymes or if I just need a lot extra..

Thx

 

[ebethc]

yes, the acid release is triggered by h2 histamine receptors. So an antihistamine that works on h2 receptors will recduce stomach acidity. And an increase in histamine could I guess increase it, it makes sense, but only if you had the energy to produce the acid.

I've have high tryptase but I guess you can have mast cell problems without H2 problems... pollen season in California is killing me... I think it's going to be getting better soon-ish, plus I am expecting a check so hopefully I can get some wobenzym soon!