How much Vitamin C do you take?
- Thread starter Athene
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I take 5 gms at the moment Athene. Over the last few weeks I've tried making my own liposomal Vit C by mixing it with lecithin but it was a bit of a faff so I'm back on standard tablets.
I haven't had any noticeable improvement increasing to 5 gms or taking it mixed with lecithin.
Jenny
I haven't had any noticeable improvement increasing to 5 gms or taking it mixed with lecithin.
Jenny
globalpilot
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I have kidney stones composed of calcium and we think oxalate since I showed high oxalate in a urine test. So I only take enough to get me up to the RDA
*GG*
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4 to 5 grams/day.
GG
GG
Marg
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I was told this..take 1000mg evey couple hours to bowel tolerance, then back up a little to find your dose. When the stool becomes watery that is too much. I have read that very thing now quite a few tines.
We need a lot our vitamin C is chewed up quickly but this a is good way to learn your exact dose and it may change over time.
We need a lot our vitamin C is chewed up quickly but this a is good way to learn your exact dose and it may change over time.
Hi Marg,
That is the test I did to find my level. I still didn't get tummy upset at 9 grammes but I stopped there as it seemed so much!!! ...though I must say I sometimes wonder if I should try going even higher. The magical tipping point for me seems to be going over 7 grammes, below that I am just on maintenance to avoid scurvy and to keep my immmune system from retiring completely. Over this dose I actually feel the stuff giving me an energy boost, which I think must be via the adrenal production of cortisol. The more I take the more energy I have.
Baccarat,
When it stopped working for you, did you experiment with higher doses to see if you could get the same effect? What were the main ways it helped you, that you lost after taking it for 2 years?
That is the test I did to find my level. I still didn't get tummy upset at 9 grammes but I stopped there as it seemed so much!!! ...though I must say I sometimes wonder if I should try going even higher. The magical tipping point for me seems to be going over 7 grammes, below that I am just on maintenance to avoid scurvy and to keep my immmune system from retiring completely. Over this dose I actually feel the stuff giving me an energy boost, which I think must be via the adrenal production of cortisol. The more I take the more energy I have.
Baccarat,
When it stopped working for you, did you experiment with higher doses to see if you could get the same effect? What were the main ways it helped you, that you lost after taking it for 2 years?
taniaaust1
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Athene.. Im wondering if you got the scurvy symptoms after stopping taking vitamin C. (that's called Rebound scurvy and caused by ones body adjusting to a high dose of vitamin C.. one should very gradually wean off of high doses of Vitamin C, never stop it cold turkey or risk scurvy).
...
Im concerned to see many at this site taking large doses of C but unaware of the various risks of doing so. (It can can give kidney stones and also apparently cause an abortion if someone was pregnant..its actually being used by some people to terminate their pregnancies)
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When Im taking Vitamin C .. I take 6g per day split up in 2-3 doses (I avoid taking it long term).
Quite possibly due to most of us in ME having bowel issues (some with very slow digestive systems or constipation predominant IBS).. for some of us the bowel tollerance dose may be so high before our bowel issues are overcome and we show signs of diarhear (or whatever) that it isnt a safe amount.
When in general people (not refering to ME sites) say vitamin C can be taken till one gets to bowel tollerance level, I assume that recommendation was originally put out there for healthy groups of people coming down with a cold or whatever.
(I think I remember being told I could recommend amount based on that when studying Naturopathy in collage.. but the recommendation was for healthy people coming down sick).
Keep in mind your body adapts to the amount of vitamin C you are taking.. the more you take.. the less of a percent of vitamin C your body absorbs as it adapts to it.. Less efficient your body is being with it (hence why then scurvy can happen if you suddenly stop it).
...
Im concerned to see many at this site taking large doses of C but unaware of the various risks of doing so. (It can can give kidney stones and also apparently cause an abortion if someone was pregnant..its actually being used by some people to terminate their pregnancies)
............................................
When Im taking Vitamin C .. I take 6g per day split up in 2-3 doses (I avoid taking it long term).
Quite possibly due to most of us in ME having bowel issues (some with very slow digestive systems or constipation predominant IBS).. for some of us the bowel tollerance dose may be so high before our bowel issues are overcome and we show signs of diarhear (or whatever) that it isnt a safe amount.
When in general people (not refering to ME sites) say vitamin C can be taken till one gets to bowel tollerance level, I assume that recommendation was originally put out there for healthy groups of people coming down with a cold or whatever.
(I think I remember being told I could recommend amount based on that when studying Naturopathy in collage.. but the recommendation was for healthy people coming down sick).
Keep in mind your body adapts to the amount of vitamin C you are taking.. the more you take.. the less of a percent of vitamin C your body absorbs as it adapts to it.. Less efficient your body is being with it (hence why then scurvy can happen if you suddenly stop it).
Hi Tania,
Thanks for the warnings, it is useful to remind people. I have urine tests regularly and I did know the risks of developing resistance and needing to lower the dose gradually.
I did actually have the scurvy symptoms before I started taking such a high dose of C. Was was on 2000mg a day and my cesarian scar started opening up. It was very red and itchy then sore then oozed, my teeth were all wobbly as well and my gums bleeding. It was so frightening.
Thanks for the warnings, it is useful to remind people. I have urine tests regularly and I did know the risks of developing resistance and needing to lower the dose gradually.
I did actually have the scurvy symptoms before I started taking such a high dose of C. Was was on 2000mg a day and my cesarian scar started opening up. It was very red and itchy then sore then oozed, my teeth were all wobbly as well and my gums bleeding. It was so frightening.
Hi, Athene.
I just want to mention that vitamin C is part of the antioxidant network, as defined by Prof. Lester Packer in his book "The Antioxidant Miracle" (a hokey title, but a good book). The network consists of glutathione, vitamins C and E, alpha lipoic acid, and coenzyme Q10. The defining feature of this network is that these antioxidants regenerate each other via certain relationships when they become oxidized. In particular, vitamin C is normally recycled by glutathione. Glutathione is usually found to be depleted in ME/CFS. If vitamin C is supplemented under this condition, the ratio of reduced to oxidized glutathione will be lowered even further. Vitamin C can pick up some of the load of oxidative stress from glutathione, and thus give some benefit, but it can't do all the many jobs that glutathione normally does. So I think it is better to raise glutathione by lifting the partial methylation cycle block than to try to substitute it with vitamin C.
The late Dr. Robert Cathcart found that if vitamin C is taken at dosages up to bowel tolerance every day (which he did himself for many years, because it was the only thing that he found would work for him) the relationship between glutathione and vitamin C in the antioxidant network can be reversed. That is, vitamin C will regenerate glutathione.
But at dosages short of those near bowel tolerance, taking vitamin C in the presence of glutathione depletion probably worsens this situation. Oxidative stress may be lowered this way, but the buildup of toxins, the immune dysfunction, the methylation deficit, the lack of folates to make new DNA and RNA, etc., will likely not be corrected.
Best regards,
Rich
I just want to mention that vitamin C is part of the antioxidant network, as defined by Prof. Lester Packer in his book "The Antioxidant Miracle" (a hokey title, but a good book). The network consists of glutathione, vitamins C and E, alpha lipoic acid, and coenzyme Q10. The defining feature of this network is that these antioxidants regenerate each other via certain relationships when they become oxidized. In particular, vitamin C is normally recycled by glutathione. Glutathione is usually found to be depleted in ME/CFS. If vitamin C is supplemented under this condition, the ratio of reduced to oxidized glutathione will be lowered even further. Vitamin C can pick up some of the load of oxidative stress from glutathione, and thus give some benefit, but it can't do all the many jobs that glutathione normally does. So I think it is better to raise glutathione by lifting the partial methylation cycle block than to try to substitute it with vitamin C.
The late Dr. Robert Cathcart found that if vitamin C is taken at dosages up to bowel tolerance every day (which he did himself for many years, because it was the only thing that he found would work for him) the relationship between glutathione and vitamin C in the antioxidant network can be reversed. That is, vitamin C will regenerate glutathione.
But at dosages short of those near bowel tolerance, taking vitamin C in the presence of glutathione depletion probably worsens this situation. Oxidative stress may be lowered this way, but the buildup of toxins, the immune dysfunction, the methylation deficit, the lack of folates to make new DNA and RNA, etc., will likely not be corrected.
Best regards,
Rich
Sallysblooms
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Thank you Rich. Wonderful advice as usual!
I have this book. I also have an excellent one just about Lipoic Acid! I now take ALA MAX by Xymogen as my doctor wants me to. I was just taking the Lipoic Acid Supreme. I still take that also.Anyway, I take Liposomal C by Livonlabs just like the Glutathione I take. I sometimes add one more pill of Vit C, but usually just the liposomal. Everything does need to be taken to work together. I agree.
Sallysblooms
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I drink it too!
Thanks for this Rich. Sounds worrying though. All the doctors I've ever seen have told me to take a few grams of vit c each day. I've never heard that this could be damaging. We get so much conflicting information about supplements generally but up till now I had thought that vit c was the one uncontentious supplement - can't do any harm and likely to do some good whatever the dose! It is really so difficult to know what to do.
Jenny
Hi, Jenny.
I'm sorry to post something that's worrying. Taking vitamin C is a good thing to do if a person's glutathione is not so depleted that it can't recycle the vitamin C, and that's true for most people. But if it is depleted, as in ME/CFS, I think it's best to get the glutathione up by lifting the partial methylation cycle block before taking very much vitamin C, unless a person goes up to bowel tolerance. I don't know where the exact break point is where vitamin C will begin to recycle glutathione, but Dr. Cathcart recommended going to bowel tolerance.
Best regards,
Rich
Hi Rich,
Thank you for the info, as always a gold mine of wisdom!
So just to be certain I understand perfectly, are you saying that, if we take Vitamin C up to bowel tolerance, that is OK, even if we don't have enough glutathione? And if we DO have our methylation cycle working properly with all the methylation supplements, then it is also OK to take high-ish doses of vitamin C?
Thank you for the info, as always a gold mine of wisdom!
So just to be certain I understand perfectly, are you saying that, if we take Vitamin C up to bowel tolerance, that is OK, even if we don't have enough glutathione? And if we DO have our methylation cycle working properly with all the methylation supplements, then it is also OK to take high-ish doses of vitamin C?
Or are you saying that if we have a methylation cycle block, as many of us may have, we may be making ourselves worse by taking small amounts of vit c?
Hi, Athene and Jenny.
Yes, to all three of those questions. Jenny--The problem is that I can't tell you how small is O.K. My guess is that taking vitamin C at near the RDA probably won't load down glutathione very much, but a couple of grams may well do so. Unfortunately, this has not been researched clinically, so I have to operate on theory and the experience of the late Dr. Cathcart.
When a bowel tolerance dose of vitamin C is taken, the vitamin C is being used as a once-through antioxidant, not recycled as a network antioxidant as is usually the situation, when glutathione is up to normal and is being recycled itself by the glutathione reductase reaction. This reaction gets its reducing equivalents from NADPH, which is regenerated directly from glucose metabolism, in the pentose phosphate shunt on the gycolysis pathway. But when glutathione is depleted, or NADPH is inadequate, glutathione is not recycled properly, and it is therefore not able to recycle vitamin C. Note that vitamin E is normally recycled by vitamin C, so a problem with glutathione upsets the antioxidant network in a major way.
Best regards,
Rich
Yes, to all three of those questions. Jenny--The problem is that I can't tell you how small is O.K. My guess is that taking vitamin C at near the RDA probably won't load down glutathione very much, but a couple of grams may well do so. Unfortunately, this has not been researched clinically, so I have to operate on theory and the experience of the late Dr. Cathcart.
When a bowel tolerance dose of vitamin C is taken, the vitamin C is being used as a once-through antioxidant, not recycled as a network antioxidant as is usually the situation, when glutathione is up to normal and is being recycled itself by the glutathione reductase reaction. This reaction gets its reducing equivalents from NADPH, which is regenerated directly from glucose metabolism, in the pentose phosphate shunt on the gycolysis pathway. But when glutathione is depleted, or NADPH is inadequate, glutathione is not recycled properly, and it is therefore not able to recycle vitamin C. Note that vitamin E is normally recycled by vitamin C, so a problem with glutathione upsets the antioxidant network in a major way.
Best regards,
Rich
Lou
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Hmm, I took high doses(six grams or more daily) of vit c for years thinking it was a good thing. My only 'known' side effect was copper depletion which was easily corrected. Now, I wonder, too, if this seemingly benign treatment wasn't all along causing harm as well. Anybody else sometimes just feel like 'throwing up your hands', yelling, what the(self-edited) else?