How long does Mestinon take to show benefits?

[EddieB]

If you follow Systron you will note that “success” is usually with the “low flow” subgroup. Subgroups are important with this condition. 30 odd percent have low flow to to the heart.

I’m sorry, I have no idea what Systron is.

 

[DonPepe]

I’m sorry, I have no idea what Systron is.

 

[DonPepe]

https://www.healthrising.org/blog/2022/05/29/mestinion-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-exercise/

 

[EddieB]

https://www.healthrising.org/blog/2022/05/29/mestinion-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-exercise/

Thanks!

 

[DonPepe]

Hi @DonPepe -- My understanding is Mestinon is meant to increase acetylcholine levels, is that correct? A possible substitute might be Huperzine A, a naturally occurring substance (moss) found in nature which breaks down the enzyme that breaks down acetylcholine, thus increasing acetylcholine levels in the body.

I started taking Huperzine A about 5 years ago, and noticed a notable improvement in my attention span while on the computer within the first 1-2 hours of taking my first dose. I've taken it daily since then, and find it helpful. Since you haven't noticed any improvements with Mestinon yet, and I noticed improvements with Huperzine A within an hour or so, it might be worth considering giving Huperzine A a try and see what happens.

I asked an AI website to describe Huperzine A, and came up with the following:

Huperzine A is a naturally occurring sesquiterpene alkaloid found in the firmoss Huperzia serrata and other species of the Huperzia genus. It is known for its potential neuroprotective properties and is primarily used to enhance memory and cognitive function, particularly in conditions like Alzheimer's disease and age-related memory impairment.​

Pharmacology and Mechanism of Action​

Huperzine A functions as a reversible inhibitor of the enzyme acetylcholinesterase, which breaks down the neurotransmitter acetylcholine. By inhibiting this enzyme, huperzine A increases the levels of acetylcholine, which is crucial for memory and learning processes. Additionally, it acts as an NMDA receptor antagonist, which may contribute to its neuroprotective effects.​

Therapeutic Uses​

Huperzine A is used for treating Alzheimer's disease, enhancing memory and learning, and managing age-related memory decline. It has also been explored for treating myasthenia gravis, a muscle disease, and for protecting against nerve-damaging agents like nerve gases. Despite its potential benefits, the quality of clinical evidence supporting its use is variable, and findings from studies should be interpreted with caution.​

Synthesis and Availability​

Due to the limited natural supply and challenges in cultivating the plant sources, huperzine A is often synthesized in laboratories. It is available over the counter as a dietary supplement in many countries, although it is regulated as a drug for Alzheimer's treatment in China.​

Side Effects and Interactions​

Huperzine A can cause mild cholinergic side effects such as nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, muscle twitching, and increased saliva production. It may interact with medications for Alzheimer's disease, potentially increasing their effects and side effects. Caution is advised when combining it with other cholinergic or anticholinergic drugs.​

Conclusion​

Huperzine A is a compound with potential therapeutic benefits for cognitive enhancement and neuroprotection. However, its use should be approached carefully, considering possible side effects and interactions with other medications. Further high-quality studies are needed to fully establish its efficacy and safety profile.​

I took your advice Wayne and sourced Huperzine A. You were right it works. Ito only been a couple of days but I actually think it’s working better than Mestinon.

 

[EddieB]

I took your advice Wayne and sourced Huperzine A. You were right it works. Ito only been a couple of days but I actually think it’s working better than Mestinon.

That’s encouraging to hear. I’m in a big crash right now, but plan to try hup A very soon.
I ended up getting the brand Wayne is using, I’ll open/ divide capsules and reduce the starting dose.
What dose did you start with?

 

[ChrisD]

Anyhow for the genetic stuff. I found that I have a defect with CHAT/ choline aceryltransferase
gene (++) This is way above my understanding, but it would seem there may be a problem with me regarding acetylcholine.
Another gene, MAO-A (rs6323) seems to be involved with an inability to break down acetylcholine.
Which would probably result in the bad side effects with someone who tried to increase acetylcholine with this defect. Mine is showing normal.

I asked DecodyGPT on Selfdecode which of my Genetic SNPs related to increased Choline need:

Genes Related to Increased Need for Choline​

CHDH (Choline)​

The CHDH gene is involved in choline metabolism. Variants in this gene may be linked to increased choline needs.

• Key SNPs:
  • rs12676: Genotype AC (Effect Allele: A)
  • rs9001: Genotype TT (Effect Allele: T)

PEMT (Choline)​

The PEMT gene is associated with choline deficiency, which can cause liver and muscle damage. Certain variants in this gene can lead to lower PEMT activity, increasing the need for choline.

• Key SNPs:
  • rs12325817: Genotype GG (Effect Allele: G)
  • rs4646343: Genotype TT (Effect Allele: T)
  • rs1531100: Genotype AA (Effect Allele: A)
  • rs4646365: Genotype TT (Effect Allele: T)
  • rs3760188: Genotype TT (Effect Allele: T)
  • rs7946: Genotype CT (Effect Allele: T)

Summary​

Your genetic profile indicates a potential increased need for choline due to variations in the CHDH and PEMT genes. These variations can affect choline metabolism and PEMT activity, respectively.

 

[EddieB]

I asked DecodyGPT on Selfdecode which of my Genetic SNPs related to increased Choline need:

Genes Related to Increased Need for Choline​

CHDH (Choline)​

The CHDH gene is involved in choline metabolism. Variants in this gene may be linked to increased choline needs.

• Key SNPs:
  • rs12676: Genotype AC (Effect Allele: A)
  • rs9001: Genotype TT (Effect Allele: T)

PEMT (Choline)​

The PEMT gene is associated with choline deficiency, which can cause liver and muscle damage. Certain variants in this gene can lead to lower PEMT activity, increasing the need for choline.

• Key SNPs:
  • rs12325817: Genotype GG (Effect Allele: G)
  • rs4646343: Genotype TT (Effect Allele: T)
  • rs1531100: Genotype AA (Effect Allele: A)
  • rs4646365: Genotype TT (Effect Allele: T)
  • rs3760188: Genotype TT (Effect Allele: T)
  • rs7946: Genotype CT (Effect Allele: T)

Summary​

Your genetic profile indicates a potential increased need for choline due to variations in the CHDH and PEMT genes. These variations can affect choline metabolism and PEMT activity, respectively.

The decoder I’m using (MTHFR.org) isn’t showing all of those.
Only one, PEMT G634A rs7946 (Effect Allele T) +/-

Did you happen to check your chAT gene? Shown as rs1880676

 

[DonPepe]

That’s encouraging to hear. I’m in a big crash right now, but plan to try hup A very soon.
I ended up getting the brand Wayne is using, I’ll open/ divide capsules and reduce the starting dose.
What dose did you start with?

I’d been taking mestinon 30 mg three times daily before the switch. I started Huperzine A at the dose of 200mg a day.

 

[Wayne]

I started Huperzine A at the dose of 200mg a day.

Congratulations @DonPepe that Huperzine A is working for you. Could well be a significant factor as you go forward on your health journey. Just to mention, the dosages are generally measured in micrograms (a little goes a long way). So the dose you're taking is actually 200 mcg. -- Best...

 

[Wayne]

Just ran across an interesting article:

FDA approves 1st new drug for schizophrenia in more than 30 years​

The name of the drug is Cobenfy, and addresses acetylcholine as to older established schizophrenia drugs that target dopamine levels. Made me wonder how expensive it is, and whether its mechanism of action is similar to Mestinon. (Probably a LOT more expensive than Huperzine A).

EDIT: Yep -- Just did a quick search:

Cobenfy will cost $1,850 for a month's supply, or $22,500 annually before insurance and other rebates. This pricing aligns with other branded oral antipsychotic medications for schizophrenia.

 

[DonPepe]

Just ran across an interesting article:

FDA approves 1st new drug for schizophrenia in more than 30 years​

The name of the drug is Cobenfy, and addresses acetylcholine as to older established schizophrenia drugs that target dopamine levels. Made me wonder how expensive it is, and whether its mechanism of action is similar to Mestinon. (Probably a LOT more expensive than Huperzine A).

Very interesting