How can we "stimulate" mTOR?

[Diwi9]

One caveat about L-arginine, it does cause some sort of vasodilation, which works for me since I experience vasoconstriction in my extremities (cold hands and feet), but may not be appropriate for others.

 

[helen1]

@Sushi mTOR is part of a pathway called PI3K/Akt/mTOR.

Things that activate mTOR; BCAAs (upregulate), glutamine, citrulline, AKG, Glycine, Opiods (upregulate)

Things that activate Akt and therefore mTOR; Florinef, Cimetidine, Taurine, TUDCA, Uridine, Rhodiola, Cordyceps

Off the top of my head that's what I've found so far.

Really, opioids? That would finally explain why I can do so much with no payback on them. And I've seen rhodiola listed as an mTOR inhibitor not an activator so not sure which is accurate.

 

[Alvin2]

I may be in the minority here but lets wait till OMF gives us a complete pathway of whats happening, then attack it. I know we want it all now but a precision attack when we have complete information is more likely to yield solid results.

 

[Marky90]

I appreciate the enthusiasm here, but honestly.. The premise is findings in two patients (?), and historically close to zero percent of multi-system diseases are effectively treated with supplements. Most likely you are trying to treat a symptom, not a cause(s). But each to their own, of course!

Good luck anyway

 

[Diwi9]

@Alvin2 & @Marky90 - I don't think the discussion here has implied a cure (hope not!), only ways of finding some level of relief. Just to be clear and for the record for other thread followers, BCAA's and cimetidine (Tagamet) are OTC...and they have reduced the intensity of "my" PEM

 

[Sushi]

I don't think the discussion here has implied a cure (hope not!), only ways of finding some level of relief.

Exactly, if we can improve one symptom with supplements that are not likely to give problems, that makes life just a little bit easier.

 

[Alvin2]

Exactly, if we can improve one symptom with supplements that are not likely to give problems, that makes life just a little bit easier.

fair enough, i've laid off putting my brain power on solving this till we get the avalanche of knowledge thats coming, but your right, each of us should do what we have to

 

[Marky90]

@Alvin2 & @Marky90 - I don't think the discussion here has implied a cure (hope not!), only ways of finding some level of relief. Just to be clear and for the record for other thread followers, BCAA's and cimetidine (Tagamet) are OTC...and they have reduced the intensity of "my" PEM

Yeah sorry my post might read a little blunt, it wasnt meant to! I`m all for that obv

 

[eljefe19]

I appreciate the enthusiasm here, but honestly.. The premise is findings in two patients (?), and historically close to zero percent of multi-system diseases are effectively treated with supplements. Most likely you are trying to treat a symptom, not a cause(s). But each to their own, of course!

Good luck anyway

I just want to clear up one thing because I've heard it twice now.
The mTOR theory has developed from Fluge and Mella's last paper, and that's why Prof Davis was asked about it.

In the video, he expresses his belief that mTOR is involved, and not to inhibit it, but then he kinda segways into the two patients with mutations. However, mTOR mutations are not what activating the mTOR pathway is about!! It's totally separate from ME. Prof Davis even says so.

If you have ME, you probably don't have a mutation at mTOR but very likely, and confirmed by Dr Davis, your mTOR pathway is under active!!

Already people are reporting the same thing from mTOR activation, PEM relief. This really is the best target for treatment that ME has ever known, until the conclusion of the RTX trials, IMO.

 

[Marky90]

I just want to clear up one thing because I've heard it twice now.
The mTOR theory has developed from Fluge and Mella's last paper, and that's why Prof Davis was asked about it.

In the video, he expresses his belief that mTOR is involved, and not to inhibit it, but then he kinda segways into the two patients with mutations. However, mTOR mutations are not what activating the mTOR pathway is about!! It's totally separate from ME. Prof Davis even says so.

If you have ME, you probably don't have a mutation at mTOR but very likely, and confirmed by Dr Davis, your mTOR pathway is under active!!

Already people are reporting the same thing from mTOR activation, PEM relief. This really is the best target for treatment that ME has ever known, until the conclusion of the RTX trials, IMO.

Gotccha Let`s see, I``ll follow u guys with interest!

 

[eljefe19]

@Alvin2 & @Marky90 - I don't think the discussion here has implied a cure (hope not!), only ways of finding some level of relief. Just to be clear and for the record for other thread followers, BCAA's and cimetidine (Tagamet) are OTC...and they have reduced the intensity of "my" PEM

That's great to hear!
Cimetidine is a super interesting drug.

By blocking H2 receptors, it increases IL-12 (useful immune stimulating cytokine) and decreases IL-10 (immune suppressing cytokine).

Here's the kicker. It has the immunomodulatory effect of reducing Tregs cells. Tregs are high in PWME, I'll provide source tomorrow, and when Tregs are high they are immunosuppressive and inhibit Akt/mTOR. Reduce Tregs, both your immune system strengthens AND Akt/mTOR becomes relatively more activated or able to be activated. Win win. Great drug.

I sincerely recommend everyone check with their doctor before starting this OTC (U.S.) medication but after getting the clear I personally recommend everyone on PR take this drug. 50mg twice a day, 12 hours apart is what works for me.

Credit to @nandixon for clueing me into this shit in the first place and making my PEM basically vanish!! Knock on wood

 

[adreno]

My list of mTOR activators

AKG
Carnitine
DHEA
Nicotinamide
Leucine
MCT
Taurine
Retinol
TMG
Zinc
Folate
Pregnenolone
Lysine
Glycine
Glutamine
Arginine

 

[eljefe19]

My list of mTOR activators

AKG
Carnitine
DHEA
Nicotinamide
Leucine
MCTs
Taurine
Retinol
TMG
SFCAs
Zinc
DHA
Folate
Pregnenolone

Thanks! Learned a few ones. Would you mind providing sources for Retinol and MCTs? I couldn't find those the last time you posted the first half of this list.

Also don't forget to also look for agents that activate Akt because Akt is just upstream of mTOR.

 

[Skippa]

@Sushi mTOR is part of a pathway called PI3K/Akt/mTOR.

Things that activate mTOR; BCAAs (upregulate), glutamine, citrulline, AKG, Glycine, Opiods (upregulate)

Things that activate Akt and therefore mTOR; Florinef, Cimetidine, Taurine, TUDCA, Uridine, Rhodiola, Cordyceps

Off the top of my head that's what I've found so far.

Omg, is this FINALLY the answer as to why I get such relief from opiates?

Like @helen1 says too.

Wow, and the thing is, with opiates, reduced PEM is exactly the benefit I get. (Also reduced POTS/OI go figure... any link between mTOR and POTS etc?)

 

[Skippa]

Furthermore, even if this mTOR theory only treats one symptom/aspect of ME, doesn't reduced PEM actually open up the doorway to exercising a little and regaining some lost health? Benefits to be had here via activity...

 

[eljefe19]

@Skippa Yes I believe it is at the very least a part of the reason opiates are so beneficial. Personally, opiates, in particular Tramadol or the active metabolite O-desmethytramadol (the agent responsible for Tramadol's opiod agonism and a much more potent agonist), which can be acquired online, both give me an entire set of benefits outside of the euphoric or pain killing effects. In fact, Tramadol isn't very euphoric at all. Great ME/CFS med IMO.

In regards to exercise, avoid aerobic as endurance exercise inhibits mTOR specifically mTORC1. Anaerobic exercise is the opposite. I have lifted some light weights three times in the past couple weeks with no noticeable PEM.

 

[Skippa]

@Skippa Yes I believe it is at the very least a part of the reason opiates are so beneficial. Personally, opiates, in particular Tramadol or the active metabolite O-desmethytramadol (the agent responsible for Tramadol's opiod agonism and a much more potent agonist), which can be acquired online, both give me an entire set of benefits outside of the euphoric or pain killing effects. In fact, Tramadol isn't very euphoric at all. Great ME/CFS med IMO.

In regards to exercise, avoid aerobic as endurance exercise inhibits mTOR specifically mTORC1. Anaerobic exercise is the opposite. I have lifted some light weights three times in the past couple weeks with no noticeable PEM.

Do you think high intensity HIT for a couple of mins would work?

 

[notmyself]

This seems interresting..I know BCAA ,is one of the most popular supplements used by bodybuilders,can someone tell me what mTOR is?

 

[notmyself]

Do you think high intensity HIT for a couple of mins would work?

HIT is good for increasing Vo2 max and anaerobic threshold..but for overall health aerobic exercising is much better..I'm not sure what is better for this disease,but i think light aerobic like walking will be more beneficial...

 

[arewenearlythereyet]

HIT is good for increasing Vo2 max and anaerobic threshold..but for overall health aerobic exercising is much better..I'm not sure what is better for this disease,but i think light aerobic like walking will be more beneficial...

I can walk for about 20 min before hitting the aerobic heart rate zone. 2 minutes of aerobic HR though can be all it takes to push me into PEM. I would say keep it non aerobic. Maybe using HR to do a kind of activity\rest regime so that you have elevated heart rate for fat burning then stop\rest then when the HR is lowered start again until you reach the threshold (like a non aerobic interval training?). I have noticed that I have been able to increase my total non aerobic fat burning heart rate throughout the day this way.