How can we "stimulate" mTOR?

[adreno]

Good idea to look at that! I already do this with lights when I remember but I didn't think to look from this area. It tends to help but it can be draining. That it would increase PI3K/Akt makes a lot of sense.

I have the Vielight 810:
http://vielight.com/product/vielight-810/

Although I haven't used it that much, as you say it seems quite draining. Do you suppose treating only the brain (as opposed to peripheral) would have significant effects?

My worst symptom is orthostatic intolerance. Some think it's a brain stem problem, but I tend to believe more in antibodies against peripheral receptors.

 

[Tunguska]

I have the Vielight 810:
http://vielight.com/product/vielight-810/

Although I haven't used it that much, as you say it seems quite draining. Do you suppose treating only the brain (as opposed to peripheral) would have significant effects?

My worst symptom is orthostatic intolerance. Some think it's a brain stem problem, but I tend to believe more in antibodies against peripheral receptors.

I heard you can apply it to the head and it works, but I don't have a real laser so I can't try. Time and money only thing in the way.

The draining could be due to increased glucose usage so some juice is called for (which makes even more sense now), but it's not always enough because it lingers afterward. A ROS scavenger like NAC etc. is prudent.

I don't have the orthostatic intolerance. Relatively speaking (since I also get drained by light), I'd assume you'd have more problems from nitric oxide from UV light and sunlight than from red light, but that's a poorly educated guess.

 

[Tunguska]

I want to quote this from your study:

The predominant pathway at 633nm was the TGF beta 1 pathway whereas at 830nm, it was the Akt 1 pathway

(visible red (VR, 633 nm) and infrared (IR, 830))

 

[ScottTriGuy]

Tagging @Chris as he may have insight.

 

[adreno]

The Vielight uses 810nm, very close to what's reported in the study to increase Akt.

However, seeing as the Vielight treats only the brain, will this even have a significant effect on metabolism, as ME is likely a bodywide problem?

 

[Tunguska]

The Vielight uses 810nm, very close to what's reported in the study to increase Akt.

However, seeing as the Vielight treats only the brain, will this even have a significant effect on metabolism, as ME is likely a bodywide problem?

Oh yeah. From people's accounts, you have to apply the light to the rest of the body. It's a small device so I doubt you'll get far with it.

There were some accounts on the forum of people making infrared saunas.

 

[eljefe19]

Can any of the biochem heads out there read this paper I found and interpret?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4207988/

It relates to @nandixon and the mTorC1 theory. I found some evidence that goes against an underactive mTorC1 and supports an overactive mTorC1 instead, based on the Fluge and Mella finding of upregulated PDK4.

 

[eljefe19]

"The abundance of PDK4 dictated the responsiveness of cells to the mTOR inhibitor, rapamycin,” say the authors. “Combinatory suppression of mTOR and PDK4 exerted synergistic inhibition on cancer cell proliferation.” The authors concluded that PDK4 promoted tumorigenesis by activating one of the signaling pathways of mTORC1.

Rapamycin mentioned in the above paper.

 

[Tunguska]

Can any of the biochem heads out there read this paper I found and interpret?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4207988/

It relates to @nandixon and the mTorC1 theory. I found some evidence that goes against an underactive mTorC1 and supports an overactive mTorC1 instead, based on the Fluge and Mella finding of upregulated PDK4.

Hey I'm sorry I just don't have enough time to go through it properly. But off the bat I don't think this will apply to us and also we might get really mislead by the cancer research because it is a specific condition of the cells after all.

 

[Tunguska]

For something more tangible to this thread, I did try both intranasal insulin and methylene blue for the first time this week. But I haven't given them a good run.

That said the methylene blue (topical) is effective and it should be comparable to the infrared light, including on effects on Akt/mTorC1. Intranasal insulin is comparable to high dose ALA (that's how it feels, the brain effect specifically I mean) in its immediate brain effect and should lead to increased mTorC1 in the brain. It's neat but I preferred the methylene blue.

 

[flitza]

Thanks, very interesting. Most of those are easily available. I've been taking a pretty good dose of Taurine and BCAAs but I'll try adding in a few more of these. Have you found that your endurance has increased as well as preventing PEM? So far, for me, just adding in the BCAAs for a week, I haven't had PEM when I ordinarily would have but my endurance for physical activity (I've been gardening a bit for the last two days) has not increased at all. Maybe if I add in some more of these?

What BCAA's are you using, and from what source? Side effects?

 

[flitza]

That's great to hear!
Cimetidine is a super interesting drug.

By blocking H2 receptors, it increases IL-12 (useful immune stimulating cytokine) and decreases IL-10 (immune suppressing cytokine).

Here's the kicker. It has the immunomodulatory effect of reducing Tregs cells. Tregs are high in PWME, I'll provide source tomorrow, and when Tregs are high they are immunosuppressive and inhibit Akt/mTOR. Reduce Tregs, both your immune system strengthens AND Akt/mTOR becomes relatively more activated or able to be activated. Win win. Great drug.

I sincerely recommend everyone check with their doctor before starting this OTC (U.S.) medication but after getting the clear I personally recommend everyone on PR take this drug. 50mg twice a day, 12 hours apart is what works for me.

Credit to @nandixon for clueing me into this shit in the first place and making my PEM basically vanish!! Knock on wood

Having difficulty finding Cimetidine in 50mg size. Where do you get it?

 

[Sushi]

What BCAA's are you using, and from what source? Side effects?

I'm taking the NOW brand powdered BCAAs. No side effects, but I am taking a low dose.

 

[flitza]

I'm taking the NOW brand powdered BCAAs. No side effects, but I am taking a low dose.

Thanks. Just ordered it.

 

[flitza]

I'm taking the NOW brand powdered BCAAs. No side effects, but I am taking a low dose.

I thought you said 1200mg. Is that low?

 

[Sushi]

I thought you said 1200mg. Is that low?

I don't remember saying that, but who knows! I am taking about 600 mg of Leucine, 300 mg of Isoleucine, and about 300 mg of Valine. But I'm also taking several thousand mg of Taurine.

 

[flitza]

I don't remember saying that, but who knows! I am taking about 600 mg of Leucine, 300 mg of Isoleucine, and about 300 mg of Valine. But I'm also taking several thousand mg of Taurine.

It was in this thread on March 12, but no matter. I the above are from a measured amount of the NOW BCAA preparation. I was just trying to figure out what dose to start with. I'm really sensitive to stuff.

 

[Learner1]

A standard dose for healthy people is 1200mg leucine, 600mg isoleucine, and 600mg valine, in a 2:1:1 ratio. That's in a 3 capsule serving, which is typical.

I take it with no problems. I break up the capsules and put them with a scoop of Seeking Health Optimal Creatine and a half scoop of KetoCaNa in my water bottle and drink it while exercising. It helps me have more stamina to exercise and helps me to recover.

If you're sensitive, try 1/2 a capsule, and work your way up to the full dose. I also check with a Genova Diagnostics NutrEval test periodically... I used to be deficient in all of them, but am low normal now.

 

[Sushi]

I've just been using powdered BCAAs made by NOW, but I'd think any reputable brand would be fine. I had to go up to 2,500 mg to get this effect.

It was in this thread on March 12, but no matter. I the above are from a measured amount of the NOW BCAA preparation. I was just trying to figure out what dose to start with. I'm really sensitive to stuff.

Thanks, since the NOW brand doesn't give doses for the total BCAAs, but gives them each separately, I must have been adding up all three to get that number. I haven't been consistent with dosing but that dose didn't bother me. I usually start with about 1/4 of the recommended dose of anything to "test the waters" and then go up if I don't have problems.

 

[flitza]

I don't remember saying that, but who knows! I am taking about 600 mg of Leucine, 300 mg of Isoleucine, and about 300 mg of Valine. But I'm also taking several thousand mg of Taurine.

Hey, I don't want to be a pain in the a-- or anywhere else, especially since you're trying to stave off PEM right now, but my NOW BCAA powder came today and the usual dosage (on the label for 2 tsp) provides2,00mg leucine,1,100mg Isoleucine and 1,100 mg Valine which doesn't jive with your dosage of 600mg Leucine etc., etc. as in your post.

Using your tip about starting at 1/4 of the recommended, I took 1/2 tsp of the stuff today.
You seem to strive for accuracy in your posts (which I find very helpful, btw) so I thought I'd let you know.