High Dose Vitamin C Mystery

bad1080

Senior Member
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252
Last edited:

linusbert

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1,596
The problem of e-cars is even worse.
its not, i do not understand why people push this narrative. i originally thought this was pushed by german carmakers.

"rare earths" arent rare on earth, they are richly distributed around earth crust. they are just harder to mine because they are not in big chunks together but spread everywhere. but then they should come up with new mining methods. its like helium3 on moon, its abundant, but also only spread out as dust.
Then please provide a case study only, where it caused kidney stones.
ai provides these:
https://www.kidney-international.org/article/S0085-2538(15)48976-8/fulltext?utm_source=chatgpt.com

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/1568519?utm_source=chatgpt.com

https://ajcn.nutrition.org/article/S0002-9165(23)29553-2/fulltext?utm_source=chatgpt.com

https://www.ajkd.org/article/S0272-6386(17)30785-0/abstract?utm_source=chatgpt.com
Worthwhile complaining with them about your allergies to their products.
i did contact them, but their customer care does not care, at best i can get retour. recently i wanted to send back my acetylcarnitine because it smelled fishy. they lied to me told me its normal, which is not, probably didnt knew it better, after discussion i got the money back.
 

pamojja

Senior Member
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Location
Austria
but then they should come up with new mining methods.
Then we happily agree to disagree. New mining methods may or may not be found. Just as a uniting cause for ME/CFS. Meanwhile, the monstrous heavy metal poisonings will continue, changing into high gear.

This just repeats why this myth originated in the first place. Oxalate excretion is increased with vitamin C, which might be why it actually could be beneficial at higher doses with oxalate kidney stones. You didn't even check your cheap AI responses for validity.

Here is the problem with prospective studies, which can't really disentangle cause and effects, without even knowing the doses taken, much less anything else. Assumed to be a mere 1000 g/d. Or any randomization, where concomitant factors could be at play just as well.

On the opposite, some Orthomolecular physicians reported, that kidney stones ceased forever, as soon as their kidney stone patients used many grams instead of milligrams a day. Who is right? Only randomization would show. Meanwhile, for my own safety I prefer actual repeated clinical experiences, instead of mere fearmongering theories.

Again the increased risk of increased oxalates excretion, but where is even one resulting in kidney stone from that in my eyes beneficial increased excretion?

Finally, a sole case study behind a pay-wall:

We report a case of acute kidney injury due to oxalate nephropathy in a patient using chelating therapy with oral ethylenediamine tetra acetic acid (EDTA), intravenous supplementation with vitamin C, and chronic diarrhea and discuss the potential kidney damage these factors can cause in particular settings.
Just as predicted:
Then please provide a case study only, where it caused kidney stones. To see if there were not more serious co-morbidities at work.
In particular settings: Chronic diarrhea, IVs, EDTA. What was the chronic diarrhea from to begin with? Against what the EDTA and intravenous acerbate was applied? Indicating, the cause for 'acute kidney Injury' was most likely completely elsewhere. As outcome, presumably a usually very painfully passing kidney stone?

Compare the hypothesized risk to of a kidney stone (in approx. 99.8% not deathly), compared to the thousands already reported deaths from regulated medications, each year in the US alone.

Not one case study with otherwise healthy individual using many gram doses orally for many, many years, like me. Not one reported death from oral ascorbic acid. Or case study of any non-reversible side effects.
 
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JES

Senior Member
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1,380
Here is the problem with prospective studies, which can't really disentangle cause and effects, without even knowing the doses taken, much less anything else. Assumed to be a mere 1000 g/d. Or any randomization, where concomitant factors could be at play just as well.

On the opposite, some Orthomolecular physicians reported, that kidney stones ceased forever, as soon as their kidney stone patients used many grams instead of milligrams a day. Who is right? Only randomization would show. Meanwhile, for my own safety I prefer actual repeated clinical experiences, instead of mere fearmongering theories.
Prospective studies are superior to recognize patterns like this compared to actual clinical experiences because what counts as an actual clinical experience? Doctors do not often follow up on patients and let's say something like vitamin C caused a *minor* increase in the risk of kidney stones, how many actual clinical experiences would it require for a) it to even happen and b) it to happen *and* a random doctor actually being able to tie this problem of a random patient to vitamin C? That's why larger studies are superior.
 

Violeta

Senior Member
Messages
3,296
Hi @linusbert -- Yes, you understood it correctly. Some of the misconceptions you've had are very similar to the ones Dr. William Jeffries--who wrote the definitive book on low-dose hydrocortisone therapy--was constantly dealing with while doing his research. To give you a brief review of Jeffries:

He spent I think about 30 years researching low-dose hydrocortisone therapy. I believe he started his research in the 1950's. It was a time shortly after cortisone was discovered, and some amazingly positive things were happening for people who took fairly large doses of it.

But it soon became apparent there were serious "side effects" or ramifications from taking it for extended periods of time, because the doses they were giving were much more than the body normally makes in a single day. This lead to the adrenal glands not producing any cortisol at all, with its dire consequences. Understandably, this therapy soon fell out of favor with mainstream medicine.

Enter William Jeffries, who devoted his entire career to researching low-dose hydrocortisone therapy, which advocates doses that are less than replacement, so the adrenal glands never shut down their own production. No matter how hard he tried, Jeffries could not break through the mindset that had become established that steriods were not good for you. And those misconceptions continue to this day, more than a half century later.

I spent many hours reading and pouring over William Jeffries' book "Safe Doses of Cortisol" before I undertook my own low-dose hydrocortisone experiment. After reading it 2-3 times, I felt comfortable enough to overcome my own misconceptions (and apprehensions) about taking it.

The effects for me were immediate and positive, and have been ever since, more than 25 years later. I haven't read the book in a while, but I just did a query on ChatGP, and came up with the following. I thought I'd remembered he had found success using his therapy for rheumatoid arthritis, and sure enough, there it is listed in the compilation below. I believe he devoted an entire chapter in his book to the various health issues he had great success treating.

Interestingly, after he retired, he started experiencing some of the health issues he'd studied all his life. He was able to readily diagnose himself with adrenal insufficiency, and upon starting to take low doses of hydrocortisone, his health issues improved.

His book and his research changed the course of my life. Below is the ChatGP exchange.

In William Jeffries' book "Safe Doses of Cortisol", what were the primary health issues that were benefitted by low-dose hydrocortisone therapy?


In William McK. Jefferies' book "Safe Uses of Cortisol", the author argues that physiologic doses of cortisol can offer significant improvements for a wide range of health conditions without the dangerous side effects associated with higher doses1. The primary health issues that were reported to benefit from low-dose hydrocortisone therapy include:
  1. Addison's disease
  2. Rheumatoid arthritis
  3. Female fertility problems
  4. Autoimmune disorders
  5. Allergies
  6. Common cold
  7. Influenza
  8. Shingles
  9. Mononucleosis
  10. Hypoglycemia
  11. Chronic fatigue syndrome
Jefferies provides numerous case studies from his own clinical practice to support these claims1. Additionally, a randomized controlled trial mentioned in the search results showed that low-dose hydrocortisone treatment resulted in modest but statistically significant improvements in fatigue and reduced disability in patients with chronic fatigue syndrome24.

It's important to note that while Jefferies had extensive clinical experience using cortisol safely, he also called for more controlled research to be conducted on its less widely accepted uses1.
Shingles! Wow!

Do you get the hydrocortisone from your doctor? Is it Cortef?

Thank you for posting all the information about this, @Wayne !
 
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Wayne

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Location
Ashland, Oregon
Do you get the hydrocortisone from your doctor? Is it Cortef?

Hi @Violeta -- Yes, I did eventually get a prescription for Cortef from a doctor. I got an initial trial prescription from a nurse practitioner. But it was only about 10 10 mg. tablets or something like that. When I told her what a huge difference it made, she was impressed. However, the clinic where she worked would not allow her to give me a prescription, as it was "unconventional". I recall crying when I heard the devastating news.

At that time, I had a friend with CFS, who said she had a friend who was an MD, and thought she might consider giving me the prescription. So I took photocopies of some of the important parts of Jeffries' book, highlighted certain sections, and added notes in others. I essentially made a "presentation" to her (while being very challenged at the time), and waited a couple days for her to get back to me.

After reading the material, she said it made sense to her. And since I'd already gotten positive results from a trial run, she gave me a prescription. That was about 25 years ago. Since then, I've had to do this "education" thing 3-4 more times with other practitioners. The last time was a couple years ago, and I was surprised to see less resistance than what I encountered all those years ago.

I sometimes shudder to think of what the last 25 years would have been like for me without the Cortef. Before getting it, I could barely make it out of the house, and felt like my functionality had dropped to about 4%, which was barely keeping me alive. The Cortef almost immediately took me to about 20-25% functionality, which is where I stayed for about 20 years.

It was about five years ago that I incorporated some other things that has now brought my functionality up to around 70%. But I would never have been able to accomplish that had I not first discovered low-dose hydrocortisone therapy. It literally changed the course of my life, and perhaps saved my life.

Shingles! Wow!

I sort of didn't notice the part about shingles when I posted it. I think @lenora would find that interesting!
 
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lenora

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Messages
5,048
Thanks, Wayne. Indeed I do find it interesting and I can't think of anyone in this world I would wish shingles upon. Having them four times (the first, not as bad, when I was approx. 30+ years old), then three episodes that followed each other....horrible. I thought I would never recover, but I did.

The first vaccine was only about 45% effective. The newer and definitely the better is something like 90% effective, and is given over at least a month apart, two injections. I feel this has given me more security; my husband also obtained it.

This is a stress-induced illness and is always found in the spinal cord. It can appear many times in a lifetime and old age makes us primary targets. It is caused by the chicken pox virus and at my age (78) most of us suffered from the disease itself. It can and does come back to haunt us late in life at a time when our bodies are weak.

It can't be transmitted except to newborns who haven't developed antibodies, thus we can infect these helpless individuals. There is also a certain stage where we can transmit it to those who never had chicken pox nor the vaccine. There is a cream now that will help with the symptoms.

Personally, I never want to deal with shingles again in my life. All we can do is protect ourselves as much as possible. Wayne, I'm glad that you were helped by low dose cortisone and hope your health will stay as intact as possible.

Violeta - thank you for posting the information. It's all helpful. Stay healthy! Yours, Lenora
 

linusbert

Senior Member
Messages
1,596
This just repeats why this myth originated in the first place. Oxalate excretion is increased with vitamin C, which might be why it actually could be beneficial at higher doses with oxalate kidney stones. You didn't even check your cheap AI responses for validity.
ai just gives answers of current mainstream opinions, can be right or wrong. but if you opinions divert on mainstream knowledge and you say you have evidence that is contrary to mainstream believes, which in medical practice, might be indeed correct (as we did see with many topics like vitamin D, saturated fats, eggs etc.), you are to provide some evidence to back it up, not me.
i personally like to believe anecdotal evidence more than big studies , because big studies seam to have a tendency to support the sponsors opinion, and if my brother in disease says this is not the case for him, i trust him more.
i have no beef in this vitamin C oxalate debate, i dont care about it. i do not even take synthetic vitamin C at the moment, and when i took it in like 500mg-2g as sodiumascorbate i had no increase in kidney issue.

what gives me kidney issues in form of worse functioning is vitamin D supplementation though. everytime i take it my eGFR drops significantly and improves if i stop it. i dont know why that is, but there is even a small study about it on pubmed describing that phenomena.
 

pamojja

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Location
Austria
Meanwhile, for my own safety I prefer actual repeated clinical experiences, instead of mere fearmongering theories.
Prospective studies are superior to recognize patterns like this compared to actual clinical experiences because what counts as an actual clinical experience? Doctors do not often follow up..
With studies, even placebo controlled trials, one always has to read the numbers. Since trials have become too expensive, most often there are conflict of interests, at least on the investor side. Practically, this is often seen in tendentious conclusions, which the actual numbers in the study don't support.

So yes, high-powered prospective studies are much superior to case studies. However, they still can't disentangle causes and effects. But in this case:

ild120089t1.png

The no ascorbic acid arm was well powered with n=22448, but only after excluding - not only patients with former kidney stones - but cancer (might have changed lifestyle due to former medical advice; n=7510), on top of all those using additional supplements (n=12 873). Which left just 907 in the trial arm of ascorbic acid users. This crucial arm clearly underpowered, to compare to about 25 times more non-users.

To me this design clearly shows the tendency, in what it wanted to show: wasn't interested how former kidney stone sufferers would fare with vitamin C, wasn't interested in effects of lifestyle changes. Or how vitamin C is usually correctly applied - especially by Orthomolecular practitioners - in tandem with lifestyle changes and comprehensive individualized supplementation with all needed essential nutrients. It was also not interested in effects of real high dose vitamin C.

So simply not applicable to a well versed supplement user like me, where my personal case study with follow up for 16 years with truly high doses really does apply. Without data-massaging

After excluding so many really counting individuals, as those who rightly also changed lifestyles, and not making the mistake to supplement one nutrient in isolation only, but moreover the group who really could benefit: past kidney stone sufferers, all what can be said with some certainty:

1.8% experienced a first kidney stone without ascorbic acid after 11 years, 3.4% who used ascorbic acid explicitly wrongly. But since the second group was artificially grossly underpowered, if corrected it could be any other number less or more. Meaningless for any patient with past kidney stones, as well as others, using vitamin C correctly.
 

pamojja

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2,550
Location
Austria
ai just gives answers of current mainstream opinions, can be right or wrong. but if you opinions divert on mainstream knowledge and you say you have evidence that is contrary to mainstream believes, which in medical practice, might be indeed correct (as we did see with many topics like vitamin D, saturated fats, eggs etc.), you are to provide some evidence to back it up, not me.

You claim vitamin C kills people, you claim that it is mainstream knowledge. I say there is no evidence for your allegedly mainstream believe.
How do I back it up that your claim isn't true? - By you not providing the case study of 1 death, not even 1 for passing kidney stone without clear comorbidities, for your hypothesized mainstream risk claim.

there is a clear crusade going on against vitamins and natural means to treat conditions. i wouldnt have vouched for 0 deaths, but its definitely less than all this pharmacrap they are shoving onto people.
Now having changed opinion again?
what do you mean, from where to what did i change?

Or did you?

For me, this discussion is about taking over the responsibility for one's health, by evaluating possible benefits or risks of interventions oneself, and decide accordingly (which will be an individual decision, as its consequences have to be endured by oneself only). I know no other approach to steer one's health around.

Therefore, I do avoid full dose permanent prescriptions, but take harmless life-style changes and supplements with all precautions possible, instead.
You may do as you like, and will be the bearer of responsibility for your decisions, too.

i have no beef in this vitamin C oxalate debate, i dont care about it.
You actively contributed to this, in your words:
crusade going on against vitamins and natural means to treat conditions

Last year, and again here this year. Spreading a hypothesized myth about kidney stones without real evidence. Just now calling it 'mainstream knowledge' again, and asking me for evidence? - No beef in it would only be true, by you not prolonging such unsubstantiated fruitless discussions. About something which hasn't been observed in real.
 
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pamojja

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2,550
Location
Austria
me kidney issues in form of worse functioning is vitamin D supplementation though. everytime i take it my eGFR drops significantly and improves if i stop it
Here what labtestanalyzer had to add to low eGFR:
Also known as: Estimated glomerular filtration rate

Estimated glomerular filtration rate (eGFR) is a measure of how well your kidneys function.
GFR is the amount of blood that is filtered every minute by tiny filters in the kidneys called glomeruli [R].
When kidney function declines due to damage or disease, GFR decreases and waste products that are normally released in the urine start to appear in the blood.
Your eGFR is calculated based on your blood creatinine levels, sex, age, and race. Creatinine is a waste product that is normally filtered by the kidneys and released into the urine at a relatively steady rate. When kidney function decreases, less creatinine is removed and levels in the blood increase.
Early detection of kidney dysfunction is important to prevent further kidney damage. Conditions such as wasting disease and obesity require alternative ways to obtain eGFR. For body builders, high muscle mass may lead to underestimation of eGFR when using creatinine [R].

Range
mL/min/1.73 m2

Critical < 29.99
Low 30 - 59.99
Sub-Optimal 60 -
89.99 Optimal 90 - 120
Supra-optimal > 120.01

Optimal
Your eGFR is within the normal range! Your kidneys are likely functioning optimally, and are able to efficiently filter toxins out of your body.

Low
Your eGFR is below the normal range! Levels in this range mean you have moderately decreased kidney function. The lower your value, the less efficiently your kidneys are working. It is important to monitor your values. Levels that stay below 60 mL/min/1.73 m2 for 3 or more months are a sign of chronic kidney disease. Alternatively, low GFR may be caused by: Eating cooked meat before the test [R]. This increases creatinine levels in the blood. Starvation and long fasting periods [R] Bodybuilding and creatine supplementation [R] Other factors that can increase creatinine in the blood, such as dehydration [R] Drugs such as NSAIDs and ACE inhibitors (or angiotensin receptor blockers) [R] These increase your risk of chronic kidney disease: High blood pressure [R, R] Diabetes [R, R] Heart disease [R] Obesity [R] Smoking [R, R] A family history of kidney disease [R] Age (being 60 years old and above) [R] Previous kidney injury [R] Low birth weight [R, R]

Aim for a healthy weight [R, R]. Lose weight if overweight. Consume a diet rich in fruits and vegetables [R]. Quit or reduce smoking [R, R, R]. Exercise for at least 30 minutes several times per week [R, R, R, R]. Make sure your blood pressure is in the healthy range (around 120/80) [R, R]. Control your blood sugar levels if you have diabetes [R, R]. Avoid lemongrass tea as it can decrease eGFR [R]. Check your creatinine marker for more lifestyle and supplement suggestions.

High
A high eGFR is usually not of concern, at least when it comes to your kidney function. High eGFR is normal in pregnancy. Check your creatinine marker for more information. Check your creatinine marker for more lifestyle and supplement suggestions."


Creatinine​


Also known as:
Creatinine, Serum

This test measures the levels of creatinine in the blood.

Creatinine is a waste product created from the normal wear and tear of muscles [R]. It is produced from creatine, a protein needed to generate the energy for muscle contractions [R]. Its production essentially reflects lean body mass, and because this mass changes little from day to day,the production rate is also fairly constant. Women, children, and older people tend to have lower levels of creatinine compared to adult men because they have less muscle mass [R].

Creatinine is removed from the body by the kidneys, which filter almost all of it from the blood into the urine. That is why blood levels are usually a good indicator of how well your kidneysare working [R,R]. The creatinine level can be tested as a part of your basic metabolic panel (BMP) or your comprehensive metabolicpanel (CMP).

Range​

mg/dL

Low < 0.59
Sub-Optimal 0.6 - 0.69
Optimal 0.7 - 0.9
Supra-optimal 0.91 - 1.2
High > 1.21

Optimal​


Your creatinine is within the optimal range! Your kidneys function well, and are able to remove toxins efficiently!

Low​

Your creatinine is low.
Low creatinine levels are not always a concern. They often just indicate a diet low in protein [R].
However, low creatinine can also be caused by:

 Malnutrition [R]

 Muscle wasting (in illness or aging) [R, R, R]

 Extreme weight loss [R, R]

 Liver disorders [R]

 Limb amputation (lower is normal) [R]

 Pregnancy (lower is normal) [R]

Low creatinine increase your all-cause mortality risk and the risk of diabetes [R, R].
If low creatinine is caused by an underlying disease, seek medical treatment.
Adjust your diet! Make sure you are well nourished and your diet contains enough protein.
Increase physical activity - exercise increases creatinine levels + it helps build muscle [R, R].
Avoid alcohol. It may decrease blood creatinine [R, R]


Supplements that can help:

 Protein supplements

 Creatine

High​

Your creatinine levels are high!
As the kidneys become impaired for any reason, they can’t efficiently filter out waste products and toxins anymore. As a result, creatinine levels in the blood will rise.

A high creatinine increases your all-cause mortality risk [R].

High creatinine can be caused by:

 Dehydration [R]

 A diet high in protein [R, R]

 Cooked meat. This happens because cooking converts the creatine present in meat (which is muscle) into creatinine [R, R]

 Vigorous exercise [R, R]

 Creatine supplements [R]

 Kidney disorders/diseases [R, R]

 Hypothyroidism [R]

Some drugs also cause high creatinine levels:

 Antibiotics such as trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole (Bactrim, Cotrim, Septra) and cefoxitin (Mefoxin) [R]

 Histamine H2 receptor blockers that inhibit stomach acid production: cimetidine (Tagamet), famotidine (Pepcid), and ranitidine(Zantac) [R]

 NSAIDs such as indomethacin (Indocid, Indocin) and ibuprofen [R, R, R]

 Anticonvulsants such as phenacemide (Phenurone) [R]

 Acetaminophen (Tylenol, Panadol, paracetamol) [R]

A high level of creatinine will not cause symptoms on its own. Even if you have above-normal levels you may notice no change. However, high creatinine is often caused by an underlyingdisease that affects kidney function, such as kidney disease, diabetes, high blood pressure, or hypothyroidism. In these cases, you will experience the symptoms of the underlying disease/disorder.

Seek treatment for any underlying disease!

Avoid creatine and creatine-based supplements.

Increase fluid intake, try to drink at least two liters of water a day! High blood creatinine may be a result of dehydration [R].

Increase dietary fiber! It improves kidney health and can lower blood creatinine levels [R]. Fruits, veggies, whole grains and legumes are good sources of fiber.

Lower your protein intake - kidneys must work harder when there’s more protein in the diet. A high-protein diet can further aggravate kidney function [R].

Limit potassium - if creatinine is high, that means that potassium is not filtered well either, and you may be at risk of having elevated potassium levels [R]. Decrease potassium-rich foods such as avocados, bananas, prunes, potatoes, spinach, tomatoes, beans, and brown rice.

Decrease phosphorus containing foods such as soft drinks, artificial sweeteners, snack foods, and processed foods. If creatinine is not filtered efficiently, neither is phosphorus,and the levels may increase above optimum [R].

Avoid strenuous exercise [R, R].

Lose some weight if overweight. Weight loss can increase your kidney health and decrease creatinine levels [R].


Supplements that can help and are beneficial for kidney function:

 Alpha lipoic acid [R, R]

Salvia miltiorrhiza (red sage) [R]

 Nettle (Urtica dioica) [R]

 Astragalus [R, R]

 Ginseng [R, R, R, R, R]

 Chamomile [R]

 Spirulina - protects the kidneys [R, R, R]

 Chitosan [R]

i dont know why that is, but there is even a small study about it on pubmed describing that phenomena.
Remember a link? Are you able to tolerate Co-factor nutrients of vitamin D: Magnesium, Vitamin Ks, and Vitamin A?
 
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Wayne

Senior Member
Messages
4,566
Location
Ashland, Oregon
Enemas are the one thing I've been shying away from even though I do want to try it and add sodium ascorbate to the infusion. I just fear of something going horribly wrong and stirring up something bad in there without actually killing it and getting a huge regression.
Hi @Dysfunkion -- I would highly recommend watching THIS VIDEO on coffee enemas which is the best I've ever run across. It's very informative, educational, and entertaining all at the same time. In fact, before embarking on a coffee enema regimen, I would actually recommend watching this video 2-3 times.

Also, I would start out slowly so you can manage any "stirring up" issues that could arise. The author of the video explains at length about the stirring up issue and how to resolve it if it occurs.
 
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linusbert

Senior Member
Messages
1,596
Here what labtestanalyzer had to add to low eGFR:
Also known as: Estimated glomerular filtration rate

Estimated glomerular filtration rate (eGFR) is a measure of how well your kidneys function.
GFR is the amount of blood that is filtered every minute by tiny filters in the kidneys called glomeruli [R].
When kidney function declines due to damage or disease, GFR decreases and waste products that are normally released in the urine start to appear in the blood.
Your eGFR is calculated based on your blood creatinine levels, sex, age, and race. Creatinine is a waste product that is normally filtered by the kidneys and released into the urine at a relatively steady rate. When kidney function decreases, less creatinine is removed and levels in the blood increase.
Early detection of kidney dysfunction is important to prevent further kidney damage. Conditions such as wasting disease and obesity require alternative ways to obtain eGFR. For body builders, high muscle mass may lead to underestimation of eGFR when using creatinine [R].

Range
mL/min/1.73 m2

Critical < 29.99
Low 30 - 59.99
Sub-Optimal 60 -
89.99 Optimal 90 - 120
Supra-optimal > 120.01

Optimal
Your eGFR is within the normal range! Your kidneys are likely functioning optimally, and are able to efficiently filter toxins out of your body.

Low
Your eGFR is below the normal range! Levels in this range mean you have moderately decreased kidney function. The lower your value, the less efficiently your kidneys are working. It is important to monitor your values. Levels that stay below 60 mL/min/1.73 m2 for 3 or more months are a sign of chronic kidney disease. Alternatively, low GFR may be caused by: Eating cooked meat before the test [R]. This increases creatinine levels in the blood. Starvation and long fasting periods [R] Bodybuilding and creatine supplementation [R] Other factors that can increase creatinine in the blood, such as dehydration [R] Drugs such as NSAIDs and ACE inhibitors (or angiotensin receptor blockers) [R] These increase your risk of chronic kidney disease: High blood pressure [R, R] Diabetes [R, R] Heart disease [R] Obesity [R] Smoking [R, R] A family history of kidney disease [R] Age (being 60 years old and above) [R] Previous kidney injury [R] Low birth weight [R, R]

Aim for a healthy weight [R, R]. Lose weight if overweight. Consume a diet rich in fruits and vegetables [R]. Quit or reduce smoking [R, R, R]. Exercise for at least 30 minutes several times per week [R, R, R, R]. Make sure your blood pressure is in the healthy range (around 120/80) [R, R]. Control your blood sugar levels if you have diabetes [R, R]. Avoid lemongrass tea as it can decrease eGFR [R]. Check your creatinine marker for more lifestyle and supplement suggestions.

High
A high eGFR is usually not of concern, at least when it comes to your kidney function. High eGFR is normal in pregnancy. Check your creatinine marker for more information. Check your creatinine marker for more lifestyle and supplement suggestions."


Creatinine​


Also known as:
Creatinine, Serum

This test measures the levels of creatinine in the blood.

Creatinine is a waste product created from the normal wear and tear of muscles [R]. It is produced from creatine, a protein needed to generate the energy for muscle contractions [R]. Its production essentially reflects lean body mass, and because this mass changes little from day to day,the production rate is also fairly constant. Women, children, and older people tend to have lower levels of creatinine compared to adult men because they have less muscle mass [R].

Creatinine is removed from the body by the kidneys, which filter almost all of it from the blood into the urine. That is why blood levels are usually a good indicator of how well your kidneysare working [R,R]. The creatinine level can be tested as a part of your basic metabolic panel (BMP) or your comprehensive metabolicpanel (CMP).

Range​

mg/dL

Low < 0.59
Sub-Optimal 0.6 - 0.69
Optimal 0.7 - 0.9
Supra-optimal 0.91 - 1.2
High > 1.21

Optimal​


Your creatinine is within the optimal range! Your kidneys function well, and are able to remove toxins efficiently!

Low​

Your creatinine is low.
Low creatinine levels are not always a concern. They often just indicate a diet low in protein [R].
However, low creatinine can also be caused by:

 Malnutrition [R]

 Muscle wasting (in illness or aging) [R, R, R]

 Extreme weight loss [R, R]

 Liver disorders [R]

 Limb amputation (lower is normal) [R]

 Pregnancy (lower is normal) [R]

Low creatinine increase your all-cause mortality risk and the risk of diabetes [R, R].
If low creatinine is caused by an underlying disease, seek medical treatment.
Adjust your diet! Make sure you are well nourished and your diet contains enough protein.
Increase physical activity - exercise increases creatinine levels + it helps build muscle [R, R].
Avoid alcohol. It may decrease blood creatinine [R, R]


Supplements that can help:

 Protein supplements

 Creatine

High​

Your creatinine levels are high!
As the kidneys become impaired for any reason, they can’t efficiently filter out waste products and toxins anymore. As a result, creatinine levels in the blood will rise.

A high creatinine increases your all-cause mortality risk [R].

High creatinine can be caused by:

 Dehydration [R]

 A diet high in protein [R, R]

 Cooked meat. This happens because cooking converts the creatine present in meat (which is muscle) into creatinine [R, R]

 Vigorous exercise [R, R]

 Creatine supplements [R]

 Kidney disorders/diseases [R, R]

 Hypothyroidism [R]

Some drugs also cause high creatinine levels:

 Antibiotics such as trimethoprim/sulfamethoxazole (Bactrim, Cotrim, Septra) and cefoxitin (Mefoxin) [R]

 Histamine H2 receptor blockers that inhibit stomach acid production: cimetidine (Tagamet), famotidine (Pepcid), and ranitidine(Zantac) [R]

 NSAIDs such as indomethacin (Indocid, Indocin) and ibuprofen [R, R, R]

 Anticonvulsants such as phenacemide (Phenurone) [R]

 Acetaminophen (Tylenol, Panadol, paracetamol) [R]

A high level of creatinine will not cause symptoms on its own. Even if you have above-normal levels you may notice no change. However, high creatinine is often caused by an underlyingdisease that affects kidney function, such as kidney disease, diabetes, high blood pressure, or hypothyroidism. In these cases, you will experience the symptoms of the underlying disease/disorder.

Seek treatment for any underlying disease!

Avoid creatine and creatine-based supplements.

Increase fluid intake, try to drink at least two liters of water a day! High blood creatinine may be a result of dehydration [R].

Increase dietary fiber! It improves kidney health and can lower blood creatinine levels [R]. Fruits, veggies, whole grains and legumes are good sources of fiber.

Lower your protein intake - kidneys must work harder when there’s more protein in the diet. A high-protein diet can further aggravate kidney function [R].

Limit potassium - if creatinine is high, that means that potassium is not filtered well either, and you may be at risk of having elevated potassium levels [R]. Decrease potassium-rich foods such as avocados, bananas, prunes, potatoes, spinach, tomatoes, beans, and brown rice.

Decrease phosphorus containing foods such as soft drinks, artificial sweeteners, snack foods, and processed foods. If creatinine is not filtered efficiently, neither is phosphorus,and the levels may increase above optimum [R].

Avoid strenuous exercise [R, R].

Lose some weight if overweight. Weight loss can increase your kidney health and decrease creatinine levels [R].


Supplements that can help and are beneficial for kidney function:

 Alpha lipoic acid [R, R]

Salvia miltiorrhiza (red sage) [R]

 Nettle (Urtica dioica) [R]

 Astragalus [R, R]

 Ginseng [R, R, R, R, R]

 Chamomile [R]

 Spirulina - protects the kidneys [R, R, R]

 Chitosan [R]


Remember a link? Are you able to tolerate Co-factor nutrients of vitamin D: Magnesium, Vitamin Ks, and Vitamin A?
there are multiple (vitamin D + egfr) , https://www.ajkd.org/article/S0272-6386(14)00823-3/fulltext
You claim vitamin C kills people, you claim that it is mainstream knowledge. I say there is no evidence for your allegedly mainstream believe.
How do I back it up that your claim isn't true? - By you not providing the case study of 1 death, not even 1 for passing kidney stone without clear comorbidities, for your hypothesized mainstream risk claim.
i did not claim it did kill people! i said it would not appear as reason for death if a person died due to it and made the oxalate and kidney as one potential example for how it could show. the argument wasnt even about kidneys and oxalate, it was that if someone died due to it, how would you know?

everything AI says is mainstream believe. its the training data, pretty much everything it can find easily on the internet and what people talk about. that mustnt be the correct information though. but its usually mainstream believe.

Or did you?
i dont know, but i know what you rephrase of my posts, like with the "you claim vitamin C kills people" is not what i said.
anyways, lets give it a break.

funny, i just got this video suggested for a case which ate too much zink-vitamin C gummis.
 
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