High antibodies to all vaccinations

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I have just gotten my results to check on my antibodies to vaccinations as there is currently a measles outbreak where I live. I had these vaccinations as a baby and I still have full immunity - even my hep B vaccine is at over 1000 (over 10 is considered as protective).
Is this a common thing for people with me/cfs? Is my body confusing these vaccinations as actual viruses circulating in my blood and is constantly in attack mode? Even my doctor was perplexed as to how these vaccinations I had as a baby are still at 100% immunity.
 
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@Hip

Hepatitis B immunity:
>10 mu is positive.
Result: >1000mu

Hepatitis A:
IGg: Reactive no titre

1.0 is considered sufficient immunity for the below:
Measles
> 5.00

Mumps
4.97

Rubella
> 5.00

I did these same tests 6/7 years ago before I travelled and results were the same.
 
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Gingergrrl

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I have just gotten my results to check on my antibodies to vaccinations
@Melissa89 Is this just a regular blood test that your doctor ordered to check antibody levels of prior vaccinations?

Even my doctor was perplexed as to how these vaccinations I had as a baby are still at 100% immunity.
Was the doctor an immunologist or PCP/GP? I am very interested now to ask my allergist/immunologist (who is technically my mast cell specialist) if he can run some of these tests on me before he retires. I can't get vaccines for several reasons and I am particularly interested if my last tetanus vaccine/booster (from 2006) is still considered to have full immunity. Thank you for any info.
 
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Hi @Gingergrrl

My regular gp ☺️ I’m in Australia though and they generally do this prior to pregnancy or during the first 12 weeks. I had a tetanus booster 8 years ago but I didn’t check on that one.

I’d recommend it! I’m not sure why the levels haven’t dropped even slightly
 

Gingergrrl

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Thx Melissa and I’m going to inquire about this. I wasn’t sure from your reply, is it just a regular blood test or something else?

And it is strange that your levels haven’t dropped even slightly. I wonder how an immunologist would interpret it. Can you remind me if we chatted a while ago b/c you had elevated IgG or am I totally confused?! :xeyes:
 

Hip

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@Melissa89 Thanks for posting your vaccination antibody results. Do you know if your hepatitis A antibodies were considered high as well?



As you may know, there are two types of vaccination: live attenuated vaccines (where they inject a live but weakened version of the pathogen) and inactivated vaccines (where the pathogen is killed before injection).

If all these vaccinations you had were from live attenuated viruses, those live viruses may still exist in your body, and assuming that ME/CFS involves some weakened immunity, those viruses may start proliferating, which might be the reason you get an increased antibody response, to try to keep those proliferating viruses in check.

But although the measles, mumps, rubella (MMR) vaccine is based on live attenuated viruses, the hepatitis B vaccine seems to be an inactivated vaccine, as far as I can see from a quick Google search (you might like to check which type of hepatitis B vaccine you received, and confirm whether it was indeed an inactivated vaccine).

So because it is an inactivated vaccine, you would have no live hepatitis B virus in your body from the vaccine (although I guess it's possible you might have picked up the actual real hep B virus). So this does not fit my theory of proliferating viruses.



This is all very interesting, because even when it comes to the regular viruses in ME/CFS (like herpesviruses and enteroviruses), there is some debate about whether the high antibodies levels many ME/CFS patients have to these viruses actually represents an ongoing infection somewhere in the body, or whether the high levels are just a result of some immune malfunction, where the immune system pumps out lots of antibodies, but there is no actual chronic infection.

If you have high levels of antibodies to hepatitis B, but you do not have any live hepatitis B virus in your body, that suggests that the immune malfunction theory of ME/CFS might be right, and your immune system is just producing too many hep B antibodies because of some immune malfunction in ME/CFS.
 

Cipher

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@Melissa89 In this study [1], about 8 % of hepatitis B vaccinated subjects had >1000 mIU/ml anti-HBs (Hepatitis B surface antibody) after 10+ years. So an high anti-HBs titer might not necessarily indicate anything bad. It could be because of cross reacting antibodies to Neisseria gonorrhoeae and Escherichia coli [2]. It could also exist during an active hepatitis B infection [3] [4], so checking other hepatitis B indicators such as total hepatitis B core antibody (anti-HBc) and hepatitis B surface antigen (HBsAg) may be prudent.
 
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Cipher

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is it just a regular blood test or something else?
It's a regular serology blood test called Hepatitis B surface antibody (also called anti-HBs). Anti-HBs antibody concentrations between 10 and 100 IU/L indicate a low level of immune protection against HBV, whereas concentrations > 100 IU/L, indicate a high level of protection. [1] A tetanus antibody test seems to exist also [2].
 
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@Melissa89 In this study [1], about 8 % of hepatitis B vaccinated subjects had >1000 mIU/ml anti-HBs (Hepatitis B surface antibody) after 10+ years. So an high anti-HBs titer might not necessarily indicate anything bad. It could be because of cross reacting antibodies to Neisseria gonorrhoeae and Escherichia coli [2]. It could also exist during an active hepatitis B infection [3] [4], so checking other hepatitis B indicators such as total hepatitis B core antibody (anti-HBc) and hepatitis B surface antigen (HBsAg) may be prudent.
All have been checked over a period of 6 months. HBc and HBsAg both negative always, but consistently returning with >1000 for surface antibody. My doctor puts this down to having “good immunity” & perhaps an unknown autoimmune issue. My response to small infections or illnesses (they rarely happen) is over dramatic (to say the least!)
 
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@Melissa89 Thanks for posting your vaccination antibody results. Do you know if your hepatitis A antibodies were considered high as well?



As you may know, there are two types of vaccination: live attenuated vaccines (where they inject a live but weakened version of the pathogen) and inactivated vaccines (where the pathogen is killed before injection).

If all these vaccinations you had were from live attenuated viruses, those live viruses may still exist in your body, and assuming that ME/CFS involves some weakened immunity, those viruses may start proliferating, which might be the reason you get an increased antibody response, to try to keep those proliferating viruses in check.

But although the measles, mumps, rubella (MMR) vaccine is based on live attenuated viruses, the hepatitis B vaccine seems to be an inactivated vaccine, as far as I can see from a quick Google search (you might like to check which type of hepatitis B vaccine you received, and confirm whether it was indeed an inactivated vaccine).

So because it is an inactivated vaccine, you would have no live hepatitis B virus in your body from the vaccine (although I guess it's possible you might have picked up the actual real hep B virus). So this does not fit my theory of proliferating viruses.



This is all very interesting, because even when it comes to the regular viruses in ME/CFS (like herpesviruses and enteroviruses), there is some debate about whether the high antibodies levels many ME/CFS patients have to these viruses actually represents an ongoing infection somewhere in the body, or whether the high levels are just a result of some immune malfunction, where the immune system pumps out lots of antibodies, but there is no actual chronic infection.

If you have high levels of antibodies to hepatitis B, but you do not have any live hepatitis B virus in your body, that suggests that the immune malfunction theory of ME/CFS might be right, and your immune system is just producing too many hep B antibodies because of some immune malfunction in ME/CFS.
“Immune malfunction” - I believe this is the case with me I have always had bizarre reactions to flu’s, even mono.. just severe periods of fatigue after illness and bizarre symptoms like swollen eyelids, POTS symptoms, night sweats with no discernible illness. The only thing I’ve never had over the past 10 years is skin issues.. my skin always remains clear, but my immune response to mosquito bites is instantaneous & awful. I was stung by a wasp before I got sick with mono and it sent me in to a spiral. I’m wondering if this has anything to do with triggering the virus? The next day I felt joint aches and fever.

All hep B testing was negative over 6 months.. my doctor said the vaccine in most people lasts 30 years. In some it’s life long. There is really no explanation to my autoimmunity (high T cells, high iGg1 etc). I have a negative ANA and perfect blood tests other than my low iron which slowly has gotten better by supplementing with sarsaparilla root.
 
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Thx Melissa and I’m going to inquire about this. I wasn’t sure from your reply, is it just a regular blood test or something else?

And it is strange that your levels haven’t dropped even slightly. I wonder how an immunologist would interpret it. Can you remind me if we chatted a while ago b/c you had elevated IgG or am I totally confused?! :xeyes:
Yes that was me! My immunologist describes all my results as a “non event” because everything is within range besides the iGg1 which he mentioned is a result of recent/new Epstein Barr infection. No monoclonal antibodies were present - no lymphoma, CLL, no ANA’s.. everything serious ruled out. Just a big igg database.

I will be checking igg again and lymphocyte subsets when my gp returns from his holiday and I’ll be sure to keep you posted ☺️ They did mention they wanted to see consistent abnormal results and I present with low inflammatory markers (both CRP and ESR) so no one is concerned. I don’t believe I have anything contagious because I have a partner and he is healthy as a horse.. I’ve also kissed others, totally fine.. it’s all an internal nightmare for me.

I also did a heavy metals check and everything was perfect. Vitamin d3 was normal but in the lower range (Borderline low). No one is concerned but I’m afraid to come down with any bug because my body thinks a war will erupt and it goes haywire!
 
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Gingergrrl

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A tetanus antibody test seems to exist also [2].
Thank you for this info @Cipher and I bookmarked it and am going to ask my mast cell doctor (who is an allergist/ immunologist) if I can do this test. Your link was for ARUP lab but I am wondering if other labs can do it, too, or if it has to be sent to ARUP?

I will be checking igg again and lymphocyte subsets when my gp returns from his holiday and I’ll be sure to keep you posted ☺️
I'd love to hear what your GP thinks and if he thinks there might be a connection or correlation between your elevated IgG and your vaccinations still being at 100% immunity. (I have no idea if there is but am curious what he says).

My immune system is also abnormal (but in my case it was IgM that was elevated for several years vs. IgG). I have several autoimmune diagnoses (basically in remission now from treatment plus Hashimoto's) but I have no idea what my vaccination levels from childhood (or a few as an adult like Tetanus) might be now? I can't get vaccines so this would be really good info for me to have and I am so glad you brought up this topic!
 

Cipher

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Thank you for this info @Cipher and I bookmarked it and am going to ask my mast cell doctor (who is an allergist/ immunologist) if I can do this test. Your link was for ARUP lab but I am wondering if other labs can do it, too, or if it has to be sent to ARUP?
The tetanus antibody test seems a bit "rare" compared to other antibody tests such as hepatitis B, but other labs might also test it, I don't know.

Is it the rituximab that stops you from taking vaccines? I know very little about rituximab, but can you still take inactivated vaccines? Or does the rituximab make them non-effective?
 
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Gingergrrl

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The tetanus antibody test seems a bit "rare" compared to other antibody tests such as hepatitis B, but other labs might also test it, I don't know.
I'm sorry I missed your reply earlier and didn't get an alert. I am going to ask my mast cell doctor when I see him the beginning of Feb if he can run the tetanus antibody test for me. I am really curious if my last tetanus vaccine from 2006 is still considered active. There was a point that no antibody tests could be considered accurate for me b/c I had done IVIG but my last IVIG was 1.5 years ago so I think it should be accurate now.

Is it the rituximab that stops you from taking vaccines? I know very little about rituximab, but can you still take inactivated vaccines? Or does the rituximab make them non-effective?
It is due to a combination of reasons including bad reactions to prior vaccines and the potential to be allergic to the adjuvants or fillers in the vaccine.

But the biggest reason is b/c of the Rituximab like you said and you cannot get vaccines with Ritux b/c it is not safe. I am technically not even supposed to be physically near anyone who has just received a live vaccine (such as intranasal flu, chickenpox, shingles vaccine, etc) but in reality, I probably have and did not know it.
 
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Cipher

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It is due to a combination of reasons including bad reactions to prior vaccines and the potential to be allergic to the adjuvants or fillers in the vaccine.
I'm sorry to hear that. How did the bad reaction manifest and with what vaccine? It's possible to take a skin patch test to see if you're allergic to aluminum. Not all vaccines contain aluminum, for example the influenza vaccine and the new inactivated Shingrix vaccine against shingles doesn't.

But the biggest reason is b/c of the Rituximab like you said and you cannot get vaccines with Ritux b/c it is not safe.
You can still take inactivated vaccines with regards to rituximab, right? I have a relative that's on immunosuppressive drugs for an organ transplant, and as long as the vaccines are inactivated it's OK. For example hepatitis A & B, influenza, tetanus/diphtheria, meningococcus, pneumococcal, haemophilus influenzae type B.
 
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