Heart Pounding

[Hysterical Woman]

Jerry/post?

Hey Maxine, Where is that post gone with the link you gave me can you remember I lost it lol. Thanks, Jerry

lol, I don't see it either, Jerry. Maybe it was on another thread? I'll find it for you again, but it's gonna cost you!

Maxine

 

[Hysterical Woman]

http://www.dfwcfids.org/publications.shtml

Mystery solved - it was in the CoQ thread.

 

[xlynx]

Nice one, I searched them all except that one! Thank you

 

[silicon]

I appreciate hearing about all of you guys’ experiences and perspectives. My experience may be largely different than those shared on this thread, but there is some remote commonality I think. I am occasionally prone to tachycardia episodes, or rapid heartbeat, often triggered by a moment of physical (or emotional) exertion. I have noticed lately that the rapid beat is sometimes hard to count, it seems kind of irregular, but in the past I seem to recall that it was about double my normal rate of 75-80. This has happened ever since I was a kid pumped up on anti-asthma medication/stimulants, which I took continuously for 13 years (but not since the late 80s). I notice that if I act quickly when it occurs, and lie down and relax as best I can—there’s a good chance of the heartbeat returning to normal very quickly. A couple of times I was able to do this by dropping to the floor and crouching, although lying prone is more reliable. If I don’t act so quickly, then the tachycardia seems to take longer to run its course. Sometimes I get antsy after lying prone for 45 minutes or so (when the tachycardia still has not cleared), and I may use my computer or watch TV or something, and I am surprised when I notice my heart has returned to normal.

Curiously, I notice that if I have a tachycardia episode, then other such episodes are much more likely in the following couple of days (or even the same day). But if I can remain tachy-free for a few days, that tachy-free streak is likely to continue for a long while (weeks or even months).

I notice that I am more prone to these episodes in recent years. I have also noticed that my beat isn’t as “strong” or “deep” as it was before, which also correlates with my perennially low blood pressure of about 90/60 dropping to 80/60. Increasing my salt intake (combination of sea salt and No-Salt, the potassium chloride) has not helped, although I continue to do it. I also take about a gram of Mg (mostly glycinate) as well as some hawthorne. However, nearly every remedy I’ve tried (for various symptoms) has no noticeable impact—although the impact may be subtle. I continue to take things if they make sense to me, despite the lack of overt results. I also take calcium (and strontium) for osteoporosis—and I wonder if they may interfere with magnesium absorption. Something to think about and perhaps experiment with. I will also read the Magnesium Miracle, mentioned on this thread. And maybe magnesium oil is worth a try, as mentioned on this thread. I could be better about drinking more water—although the only I ever noticed with that is having to pee more often.

 

[glenp]

I have the episodes of high heart rate that come and go periodically. A friend here who has similar was told by the cfs doctor that it is the ebv virus reactivating and gives her immunovir for it. She felt that it helped, but if I took it and didnt get it for awhile I would figure it helped too. I wonder if that is what it is? I am apprehensive about trying it.

 

[Hysterical Woman]

Big SNIP

I notice that I am more prone to these episodes in recent years. I have also noticed that my beat isnt as strong or deep as it was before, which also correlates with my perennially low blood pressure of about 90/60 dropping to 80/60. Increasing my salt intake (combination of sea salt and No-Salt, the potassium chloride) has not helped, although I continue to do it. I also take about a gram of Mg (mostly glycinate) as well as some hawthorne. However, nearly every remedy Ive tried (for various symptoms) has no noticeable impactalthough the impact may be subtle. I continue to take things if they make sense to me, despite the lack of overt results. I also take calcium (and strontium) for osteoporosisand I wonder if they may interfere with magnesium absorption. Something to think about and perhaps experiment with. I will also read the Magnesium Miracle, mentioned on this thread. And maybe magnesium oil is worth a try, as mentioned on this thread. I could be better about drinking more wateralthough the only I ever noticed with that is having to pee more often.

Hi silicon,

Good luck with whatever you try - it is so hard to sort all of this out. Calcium can definitely interfere with magnesium absorption, especially if taken together. You need magnesium to absorb calcium, but it doesn't work the other way around.

If you want to search for specific issues like "magnesium absorption", you can do that by going to amazon and pulling up the book and searching within it. It won't allow you to see everything, but will give you a flavor. Magnesium is a huge issue in osteoporosis. You also need adequate stomach acid to absorb any magnesium that you take. There is also a section in the book discussing when to take magnesium, but I always take mine at bedtime since it makes me sleepy. My heart palpitations have completely disappeared.

The magnesium oil is somewhat of a new concept. I have found that I like the oil made by Essence of Life better than the one made by Ancient Minerals. The Essence of Life brand is made from evaporated sea water (altho I don't know where the water comes from), and the Ancient Minerals comes from salt beds in north western Europe. I think the source can make a difference in any possible toxicity and it might have an impact on efficacy.

As far as peeing frequently, there can probably be a gazillion reasons for that. However, the magnesium seems to help me not get up as much during the night to pee. I have read that it can relax the muscles around the bladder.

Let us know how you make out.

Take care,

Maxine

 

[silicon]

Thanks very much for your feedback Maxine. I had not known that calcium interferes with magnesium absorption until you mentioned it on this thread. I wonder if magnesium absorption is also impaired by strontium. I will experiment with taking some magnesium away from meals (and calcium) and see if I can notice any difference. I usually find it difficult to discern the impact of the supplements I take—there may be an impact, but it is usually too subtle or gradual for me to be sure of what’s going on. I will definitely take a look at that book you mentioned, the Magnesium Miracle, and I plan to check out the magnesium oil.

 

[Hysterical Woman]

Thanks very much for your feedback Maxine. I had not known that calcium interferes with magnesium absorption until you mentioned it on this thread. I wonder if magnesium absorption is also impaired by strontium. I will experiment with taking some magnesium away from meals (and calcium) and see if I can notice any difference. I usually find it difficult to discern the impact of the supplements I take—there may be an impact, but it is usually too subtle or gradual for me to be sure of what’s going on. I will definitely take a look at that book you mentioned, the Magnesium Miracle, and I plan to check out the magnesium oil.

Hi silicon,

You are welcome for the feedback. Many people don't know that calcium can block magnesium absorption. Once I started reading books about magnesium I was floored at the amount of misinformation there is out there about minerals.

I don't remember any of the three books I read on magnesium mentioning strontium as a possible blocker of magnesium, but I did come across this article that suggests that it might be true:

http://www.clinchem.org/cgi/content/abstract/9/6/734

Information concerning when to take magnesium from "The Magnesium Miracle":

"Take your first dose of magnesium when you wake up in the morning and the last dose at bedtime. If you take a third dose, make it late in the afternoon. Magnesium is most deficient in the early morning and late afternoon. "

Of course, the information about when to take it is for the general public, not necessarily for those with CFS. As I have mentioned before, I take all of my dose at bedtime since I am after the incredible sleep and leg pain relief it has given to me.

As far as any results being too subtle to detect, I am very familiar with that problem. I read about magnesium when I first became ill 18 years ago and started taking magnesium malate at that time. I never noticed any help from it and eventually stopped it. So when a friend kept encouraging me to take magnesium I dismissed it for quite a long time. She kept showing up at my door with free bottles of quality magnesium glycinate and I still resisted. I could whack myself in the head everytime I think about that!! I am not sure why the magnesium malate didn't help me. Maybe it was because I had not been ill very long and was in a different phase, maybe I didn't take enough. It could be that the glycinate is a superior form for me since glycine is the smallest amino acid that is compounded with magnesium and possibly the only one to cross the blood brain barrier as a result.

When I started the magnesium glycinate about 11 months ago, I only too 100mg at bedtime, but already noticed more drowsiness than usual. It made my muscles relax and gave me a peaceful feeling. As I began to increase it I noticed I was sleeping longer and longer periods of time before waking. I had been on elavil for sleep/pain for years, but it didn't give me the same relaxed feeling. It wasn't until about 3 months into taking it that I began to notice a real decrease is leg pain. That decrease has continued until it is now 95% gone. The only time I have leg pain now is when there is major storm coming thru or when one of my 15 pound cats decides that my leg would make a nice pillow. I have finally been able to completely ditch the elavil (about 2 1/2 weeks ago) and it is wonderful not to feel hungry 24hrs. a day, day in and day out.

Good Luck with your protocol, and please keep us updated.

And, OK, I have to ask - silicon and Mt. View CA - do you/did you work in the computer industry?

Take care,

Maxine

 

[silicon]

Hi Maxine,

Thanks for the additional info.

Your experience regarding magnesium malate and glycinate is interesting. Chemistry matters! It’s too bad it took you so long to find the best magnesium for you—but it’s great that it’s relieving some of your symptoms now. I use glycinate because apparently Cheney said it’s easier on the bowels, and that seems true in my own experience. I take relatively high levels of magnesium in part because I take calcium for osteoporosis, and supposedly they say to take the 2 in a certain ratio (apparently this is mostly for the benefit of the calcium, as you have pointed out). I can’t really tell which of my supplements are doing anything (some effects may be too subtle or gradual to be clear to me) other than digestive enzymes (a lifeline for me) and probiotics. Everything else is guesswork and analysis (or rationalization).

I still work in the software industry, although at a lesser “pace” as in the past, in a very supportive context. I also chose the name silicon because a tiny silicon chip inside my head controls the majority of my mental functioning! (Just kidding about that)

Dave

 

[Hysterical Woman]

Hi Maxine,

Thanks for the additional info.

Your experience regarding magnesium malate and glycinate is interesting. Chemistry matters! It’s too bad it took you so long to find the best magnesium for you—but it’s great that it’s relieving some of your symptoms now. I use glycinate because apparently Cheney said it’s easier on the bowels, and that seems true in my own experience. I take relatively high levels of magnesium in part because I take calcium for osteoporosis, and supposedly they say to take the 2 in a certain ratio (apparently this is mostly for the benefit of the calcium, as you have pointed out). I can’t really tell which of my supplements are doing anything (some effects may be too subtle or gradual to be clear to me) other than digestive enzymes (a lifeline for me) and probiotics. Everything else is guesswork and analysis (or rationalization).

I still work in the software industry, although at a lesser “pace” as in the past, in a very supportive context. I also chose the name silicon because a tiny silicon chip inside my head controls the majority of my mental functioning! (Just kidding about that)

Dave

Hi Dave,

Chemistry does matter. Cheney does say that magnesium gycinate is easier on the bowels, and I believe he is the one who also said that the glycine molecule is smaller and is therefore more likely to penetrate the blood brain barrier. I am also curious about how the glycine part might contribute to detoxfication since it has it's own Phase II Pathway out of the body as part of a "Peptide conjugation". Not sure what all that means - trying to learn more. Trying to tease out the effects of different supplements can certainly be difficult, especially if you are taking a lot of them. I try to start new stuff by itself when I can in order to detect any changes.

I am interested in your experience with digestive enzymes and probiotics but that info should probably go into another thread. Have you posted anything about that on the forum elsewhere? Just yesterday I got the results from my EXAtest for minerals and I am low in every single one that was tested (even the magnesium). However, the company called and said that they want me to retake the test because they weren't sure they had enough cells to get accurate results. My doctor asked me if I was planning on supplementing for all of them and I said I wanted to think about it. Perhaps that isn't the best way to go. The only thing I can come up with as to why every one of them might be low would be due to malabsorption. It doesn't make sense to just try to supplement all of them without addressing that as an underlying problem. I hope to do the retest later this week.

Congrats on still being able to work while having this difficult illness, even tho it is in a lesser pace. I miss working so much! And, hmmmm, about that chip that is inside your head...have you had that from birth, or was it put in at a later time??:Retro smile:

Take care,

Maxine

ETA: Found your post in what supplements do you take thread, Dave, thanks.

 

[silicon]

Hi Maxine,

Digestive enzymes have been a lifeline for me since the late 80s, when for some reason my body stopped producing enough enzymes, and I began experiencing bloating and an inability to digest certain foods (especially animal proteins). It never seemed to matter which brand or even type of enzymes, as long as I was taking something. I have used Jarro-Zymes Plus (pancreatin) for the last few years.

I believe that my diet tends to be weight-losing due to what I eat (bland and no high-calorie foods, since I can’t tolerate them), not the volume.
For what it’s worth, I took the EXA by Intracellular Diagnostics back in 1999 (when I had generous health insurance), and I was deficient in magnesium, high in calcium, sodium, chloride and phosphorous, normal in potassium. I don’t recall if my naturopath gave much guidance in interpreting and acting on those results. That’s the test where they scrape from the mouth, if I recall. I thought that calcium might have been leaching from my bones (osteoporosis) but couldn’t explain the other high intracellular mineral levels.

I think most PWCs have problematic mineral absorption—or at least PWCs with a distressed gut.
I’ve often viewed my condition as relatively stable since the late 80s (which is what permits me to continue working, although in a supportive environment), although I can see deterioration in some areas, sometimes gradual (like the cardiac symptoms and fatigue), sometimes sudden (like an exacerbation of my chemical sensitivity to smoke, as well as digestive problems/bloating).

The chip, I believe, was implanted during my alien abduction

Peace,
Dave

 

[Hysterical Woman]

Hi Maxine,

Digestive enzymes have been a lifeline for me since the late 80s, when for some reason my body stopped producing enough enzymes, and I began experiencing bloating and an inability to digest certain foods (especially animal proteins). It never seemed to matter which brand or even type of enzymes, as long as I was taking something. I have used Jarro-Zymes Plus (pancreatin) for the last few years.

Hi Dave,

Thanks for the info on the enzymes.

I believe that my diet tends to be weight-losing due to what I eat (bland and no high-calorie foods, since I can’t tolerate them), not the volume.
For what it’s worth, I took the EXA by Intracellular Diagnostics back in 1999 (when I had generous health insurance), and I was deficient in magnesium, high in calcium, sodium, chloride and phosphorous, normal in potassium. I don’t recall if my naturopath gave much guidance in interpreting and acting on those results. That’s the test where they scrape from the mouth, if I recall. I thought that calcium might have been leaching from my bones (osteoporosis) but couldn’t explain the other high intracellular mineral levels.

The low calorie food diet doesn't sound like much fun, but many of us have to do whatever we can to work within our limits :-(

Thanks for sharing your EXAtest results. I am really surprised that the naturopath didn't give you more feedback about what your results meant. It is not a cheap test and can really give you some insight into what is going on with your system. For example, looking at your results (even tho they weren't recent), here is what the EXAtest pamphlet says about

High Calcium:

"Elevated tissue calcium may be a sign of mobilization of bone calcium into soft tissues signaling early signs of developing osteoporosis. High intravellular calcium interferes with ATP formation, muscle contraction, relaxation, enzyme activity, and neuromuscular transmission.

Increased cellular calcium predisposes to spasm of peripheral arterioles leading to increased blood pressure. Calcium may also be a factor in plaque formation, angina, hypertension and athero-arteriosclerosis. calcium channel blockers as well as magnesium affects movement of calcium into the soft tissues and heart muscle.

Parathyroid hormone, which regulates calcium, is increased when magnesium is low. PTH is lowered when magnesium stores are high. Hypomagnesia occurs commonly in hyperthyroidism.

Hypercalcemia is seen in malignant neoplasms (with or without bone involvement), primary and tertiary hyperparathyroidism, sarcoidosis, vitamin D introxication, Paget's disease of bone, thyrotoxicosis, acromegaly, and the diuretic phase of renal acute tubular necrosis."

and for low magnesium:

"Determination of low tissue magnesium using the EXAtest is vital to the objective treatment of depleted patients. Magnesium loss affects normal tissue and organ function while modulating transport of potassium, calcium, and phosphorus within tissues.

Causative factors of Mg deficiency include diabetes, use of diuretics and digitalis, excessive stress, exercise, malabsorption, poor diet, alcoholism, and heavy metal poisoning.

LOW magnesium has been associated with EKG and cardiac abnormalities, fibrillation, vascular and muscles spasms. Correlations with migraine headaches, asthma, eclampsia, PMS, and chronic fatigue syndrome are abundant in the medical literature. Low magnesium is seen in cardiac failure and prolonged QT syndrome. Neurological disorders, panic attacks and nerve irritability have been associated with low tissue magnesium levels."

I think most PWCs have problematic mineral absorption—or at least PWCs with a distressed gut.
I’ve often viewed my condition as relatively stable since the late 80s (which is what permits me to continue working, although in a supportive environment), although I can see deterioration in some areas, sometimes gradual (like the cardiac symptoms and fatigue), sometimes sudden (like an exacerbation of my chemical sensitivity to smoke, as well as digestive problems/bloating).

I think you are right about PWCs and mineral absorption. I have always wondered about the distressed gut thing since I don't really have any gut symptoms - no bloating, no pain, etc. And, yes, the chemical sensitivity thing is a pain in the rear, at least my cardiac pain/flutters have disappeared 100%.

The chip, I believe, was implanted during my alien abduction

Peace,
Dave

Ah, Dave, you must be one of those people that Elaine Showalter was talking about in her book "Hystories"!!! Oh, no wait, those were all women......... HYSTERICAL WOMEN!!!

 

[silicon]

Hi Maxine,

Thanks very much for the info on EXA test interpretation. The list of symptoms is a little overwhelming! Some of the symptoms I have (osteoporosis, low enzymes, malabsorption, asthma, some occasional minor muscle spasms, cardiac abnormalities), others I don't. I'm suspect of my digestive system''s ability to absorb minerals (and most everything else, as I am perennially quite underweight). That's one reason I gravitate toward taking supplements, especially given my limited freedom in my diet. I am intrigued with magnesium oil--in part because it bypasses the digestive system--I will try it at some point, relatively soon. I have upped my does of oral magnesium in the last few months, but I wonder if a different pathway of absorption may make an observed difference.

By the way, hysteria is not for women only

Dave

 

[Hysterical Woman]

Hi Maxine,

Thanks very much for the info on EXA test interpretation. The list of symptoms is a little overwhelming! Some of the symptoms I have (osteoporosis, low enzymes, malabsorption, asthma, some occasional minor muscle spasms, cardiac abnormalities), others I don't. I'm suspect of my digestive system''s ability to absorb minerals (and most everything else, as I am perennially quite underweight). That's one reason I gravitate toward taking supplements, especially given my limited freedom in my diet. I am intrigued with magnesium oil--in part because it bypasses the digestive system--I will try it at some point, relatively soon. I have upped my does of oral magnesium in the last few months, but I wonder if a different pathway of absorption may make an observed difference.

By the way, hysteria is not for women only

Dave

Hi Dave,

You are welcome for the EXAtest information. The list of symptoms are a little overwhelming and when I look at them it is somewhat like looking at a list of all the problems that a B12 deficiency can cause. It's hard to believe that just being low in a vitamin and/or a mineral could have such an amazing impact on so many different parts/symptoms of the body. However, since magnesium is involved in over 300 difference enzyme functions it is not hard to see what a impact a deficiency can make. And no one will have every symptom.:Retro smile:

As far as a different pathway of absorption - some people get magnesium injections. I have shied away from that since I am so sensitive to so many things that I was concerned about a negative reaction. Dr. Cheney recommends a magnesium sulfate cream made by Kirkman's. I tried a couple of jars or that and didn't think it helped me. The magnesium oil was much more of a help, but as I have posted elsewhere, you have to be careful where you get the oil from as some of it can be high in metals/contaminants that you don't want in your body. I have used both Ancient Minerals and Essence of Life and they both have laboratory chemical composition postings for their products.

Good luck with trying the magnesium oil and please let us know how you are doing with it and other treatments.

Hysteria is not for women only??? You're kidding??? Right????

Take care,

Maxine

 

[susan]

I was introduced to a new type of enzymes DPP1V... a new kind that actually boost the immune system. It digests casein and gluten. Autistic children take them and since I am doing the Methylation program my doc recommended I take these and not my usual digestive enzymes. This site tells you what enzyme you need. http://www.enzymestuff.com/