Have you had any success with these Sleep Meds?

[SaveMe]

Have you had any success with these Sleep Meds?

Sleep seems to be a crucial factor in CFS-ME. When I don't get a "good nights sleep", my symptoms are exacerbated. This is especially true of the brain fog and body aches.

Any similar experiences?

 

[taniaaust1]

I use melatonin

 

[SaveMe]

I use melatonin

oh how it do?

 

[Jenny]

There are quite a few threads on how to alleviate sleep probs, Saveme.

Do a search using the search facility on this board.

I've had a good experience with zopiclone.

Jenny

 

[SaveMe]

There are quite a few threads on how to alleviate sleep probs, Saveme.

Do a search using the search facility on this board.

I've had a good experience with zopiclone.

Jenny

ok will do. did Zopiclone give you more quality deep sleep (more restorative sleep) ?

 

[maryb]

The only problem with Zopiclone is you become addicted to it and mustn't ever run out = not a good experience when its 3 days before you get a delivery Having said that I've been on it for 3 years and it works, never feel refreshed in the morning but how many of us really sick do?

 

[heapsreal]

i second the zopiclone but i find its only any good for initiating sleep and gives me about 4 hours, plus i tend to use a combo of things like something to get me to sleep and something to help me sustain sleep. But the best thing all on its own i have used is seroquel, it gives me deep sleep and lasts about 8 hours. I also rotate between what i use to help avoid tolerence. I am totally reliant on meds for sleep as my ability to sleep is shot since ive had cfs.

cheers!!!

 

[pken]

I used Zopiclone (like Lunesta) briefly and it was OK but my coordination went to hell. I didn't realise what was going on (my typing became almost comical) until I read the side effects more carefully. I stopped taking it and my tpynig ipmovred ;-) It took a week or so though.

I have a theory that some/many of our problems are related to histamine in one way or another and so the old style antihistamine based sleeping pills might be a better bet. In the US the antihistamine "doxylamine succinate" is used as an over the counter sleep aid and works very well for me on the odd occasion I need it. I recently read something (on Pubmed I think) that mentioned sleep problems in those with advanced liver disease due to liver not being able to break down histamine effectively.

Antihistamines often have fewer side effects and are generally far safer than the "hypnotic" drugs. They are also incredibly cheap.

 

[Jenny]

ok will do. did Zopiclone give you more quality deep sleep (more restorative sleep) ?

I don't know how to tell. My sleep seems quite deep but I don't know if it's restorative. Nothing much seems to be restored so far!

When I take it I get to sleep quickly. I sometimes wake after 5 hours or so but usually get back to sleep easily. I only take it at the most twice a week, as apparently it loses its effectiveness if you take it more often (or you become addicted, as others have said).

Jenny

 

[heapsreal]

With my insomnia, its not really a case of getting restorative sleep or not, but if i get sleep at all. For me any sleep is better then none. Without meds my sleep is very restless and greatly reduced and i wake feeling crappier. If u can get 8 hours sleep without meds i would just keep going it alone without meds and use very occassionally as i dont think sleep meds would really improve sleep quality that much if your already sleeping, but if u dont sleep or wake frequently and toss and turn etc then i think sleep meds would help. Sleep is governed by the hypothalamus which is on the blink in cfs for some reason. I wonder if u could go on the donar list for a replacement hypothalamus, lol??? Lately even when on meds i have been waking up after 3 hours or so and take more and go back to sleep for another 4 hours or so, but i think this is due to going through a down turn phase at the moment. I am getting sick of going through phases, crashes etc Im so up and down the last couple of months, hmmmm.

 

[pken]

heapsreal, have you tried doxylamine?

 

[heapsreal]

yes, i have used everything, lol. when i first used it, it was great but like most meds and having cfs, we tend to get a tolerance to everything, i throw it in once in awhile but if i use it semi regularly it just doesnt work. I think sleep meds are a neccessary when u have to work, dead lines, family etc but if u dont have these things going on and your rich, might be able to function abit and sleep when the body and mind is ready.

cheers!!!

 

[pken]

What dose did you take? I found 25mg was usually enough - twice that was proper knock-out territory. At 50mg the time between the dose and losing consciousness was rapid,far faster than zopiclone - I think it's the only time I ever remember being aware of falling asleep, up to the point where you don't remember anything of course. Felt a bit groggy the next morning though. The sleep quality was actually very good.

 

[SaveMe]

What dose did you take? I found 25mg was usually enough - twice that was proper knock-out territory. At 50mg the time between the dose and losing consciousness was rapid,far faster than zopiclone - I think it's the only time I ever remember being aware of falling asleep, up to the point where you don't remember anything of course. Felt a bit groggy the next morning though. The sleep quality was actually very good.

Doxylamine? You sure you dont have this med confused with another one?
Doxylamine is a cold and allergy drug and used for nausea. Fatalities have been reported from doxylamine overdose. These have been characterized by coma, tonic-clonic seizures and cardiorespiratory arrest.
and its known to cause Ataxia ( neurological sign and symptom that consists of gross lack of coordination of muscle movements.)
Sounds scary to me.

 

[heapsreal]

i used doxylamine before i had cfs, im a shift worker so the need for sleep meds was for during the day between night shifts. The first time i took it, it knocked my socks off and felt groggy afterwards, that was 25mg and the pharmacist said to try just a 1/4 of a tab but on the box it said 1-2 tabs(25mg each) so i thought the advice was crap, but i should have listened, lol. Now if i use it i take 50mg and sometimes it doesnt work, but the initial response i got from it was alot stronger then any benzo i have used, even pre cfs i took tamazepam and it didnt do much, especially compared to doxylamine. Pre cfs melatonin use to work well. i dont think these things are med tolerances but i do think that the viral infections i got from cfs have damaged my ability to sleep. I have found zopiclone to have worked the longest without getting too bad a tolerence to it, but every so often i take an extended break from it and then it starts to work again. I try not to take the same sleep med more then 2 nights in a row and have a few benzo free nights a week as well. I dont think im addicted to sleep meds, more like dependent, but i can stop benzo's without too many problems which i think is because i alternate what i use alot which i think reduces the chances of addiction and also helps to keep the meds working. Its a juggling act but still go through periods where nothing works so i just stop taking sleep meds for a couple of days, usually when i dont have to work, and then they usually start working again. I am looking into elevated night time cortisol levels and other hormonal stuff which might be disturbing my sleep. I have had a sleep study but apparently u need to sleep when u have one, lol. they had no treatment ideas for sleep as they only seem interested in sleep apnea etc and u have to sleep for them to test for it.I dont think apnea is my problem because if i can get a good nights sleep i feel alot better, which is normally not the case in sleep apnea.

cheers!!!

 

[heapsreal]

Doxylamine? You sure you dont have this med confused with another one?
Doxylamine is a cold and allergy drug and used for nausea. Fatalities have been reported from doxylamine overdose. These have been characterized by coma, tonic-clonic seizures and cardiorespiratory arrest.
and its known to cause Ataxia ( neurological sign and symptom that consists of gross lack of coordination of muscle movements.)
Sounds scary to me.

doxylamine is an antihistamine and one of its side effects is sedation which it is also prescribed for. antihistamines have a wide range of use from allergies to dry secretions like runny nose, diarrhoea etc as well as nausea and migraines. Im not doubting the side effects from overdose as most meds are toxic in overdose, one of the worst being tylenol/paracetamol which u can buy anywhere.

cheers!!!

 

[TheMoonIsBlue]

Wow Heaps, 50mg of Doxylamine! You must have the constitution of an Ox.......LoL.......I know, it's actually NOT funny at all this insomnia/sleep business......

Doxylamine Succinate is sold OTC as Unisom Sleep Tabs (not Unisom Sleep Gels....that contains the ingredient in Benadryl)

I tried once 25mg (1 pill) of Doxylamine and felt nothing, but when I finally fell asleep, I could NOT wake up or get up for about 18 hours! It was awful, I kept waking up, and falling asleep, and falling into a dream state, and starting having those lucid dreams where you think you are awake but then realize you're still dreaming! It took 24 hours for me to shake the feeling off. NOT FUN.

Most people online say they only take 1/2 or even 1/3 or 1/4 a pill.

If you don't have insomnia, and are only looking to improve your sleep quality- stay clear of most sleep meds, and definitely doxylamine!

 

[pken]

Doxylamine? You sure you dont have this med confused with another one?
Doxylamine is a cold and allergy drug and used for nausea. Fatalities have been reported from doxylamine overdose. These have been characterized by coma, tonic-clonic seizures and cardiorespiratory arrest.
and its known to cause Ataxia ( neurological sign and symptom that consists of gross lack of coordination of muscle movements.)
Sounds scary to me.

It's a sedating antihistamine - an over the counter sleep aid in the US. Similar in a way to diphenhydramine (Nytol) but more potent. It's not used as much for it's anti-allergy properties because newer drugs became available that didn't make people sleepy (which was a good thing). As for the toxicity, 50mg isn't an uncommon dose, though 25mg is more normal. And as with most medications there can be problems, and fatalities. Then again water can kill you if you drink enough.

I'm not actually a big fan of meds but sometimes they have their place - and as far as side effects go just take a look at the list for Zopiclone and the like. I think you're right to be cautious though.

Edit - heaps beat me to it!

 

[pken]

I tried once 25mg (1 pill) of Doxylamine and felt nothing, but when I finally fell asleep, I could NOT wake up or get up for about 18 hours! It was awful, I kept waking up, and falling asleep, and falling into a dream state, and starting having those lucid dreams where you think you are awake but then realize you're still dreaming! It took 24 hours for me to shake the feeling off. NOT FUN.

I think one of the things that's so interesting about these forums is how differently we all react. Doxylamine would be my first choice if I couldn't get to sleep (which is rare thankfully). I tend to have an empty stomach by the time I go to bed, having stopped eating maybe 6 hours before, so that might account for a different reaction time. Maybe you absorbed it more slowly for some reason and that's why you reacted that way. Who knows - but it's fascinating.

 

[penny]

I had to stop taking baclofen (since its problematic in pregnancy) and as a result my sleep is taking a nose dive. Ambien will still, usually, help me get to sleep but the return of muscle pain and resulting frequent sleep interruptions is messing up my deep sleep again.

I tried doxylamine last night since its supposed to be safe. And while it wasn't as good as baclofen/ambien, it was much better than ambien by itself. I didn't wake up nearly as often and my muscle pain didn't bother me as much. But I had a similar experience to theMoonIsBlue, and felt really groggy for about 19 hours after a 25mg dose.

I'm wondering if the long groggy hangover shortens when your body gets used to it? I'm thinking it might from your description Heapsreal, since you can now take a larger dose...

I'm going to try a half tablet this evening, maybe with a 2.5mg ambien, see how that works, but curious what others experiences are...