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Havana Syndrome: victims suffer symptoms much like ME

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lenora

Senior Member
Messages
4,926
Hello @Pyrrhus....Good news. I wasn't aware of that study and it's obviously an important one. Finally, we're being taken by an organization that matters.

It's a great puzzle and I hope I'll be able to see the results before my time is up....that and the subject of time, two of my big interests. You're a great addition to the earth community. Yours, Lenora.
 
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lenora

Senior Member
Messages
4,926
Hi @Rufous McKinney. Were most of these locations clustered in the same place or area? I wonder if anyone has recovered from Havana Syndrome.

Surely the govt. must be researching the causes of this.....most seem to be govt. employees. Yours, Lenora.
 
Rufous McKinney

Rufous McKinney

Senior Member
Messages
13,354
lenora said:
Were most of these locations clustered in the same place or area? I wonder if anyone has recovered from Havana Syndrome.
Click to expand...

here is an MSNBC ANDREA MITCHEL report...on Havana Syndrome.


a recent up tick in cases, including near Bogota Columbia.

They describe baseline data they will be collecting from diplomats PRIOR TO Their being sent out in case they become victims.
 
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lenora

Senior Member
Messages
4,926
Sad to hear. Just because something hasn't been proven doesn't mean that it hasn't happened. I feel very sorry for those employees and would not have expected the treatment they've received. Just another sad story, isn't it? Yours, Lenora.
 
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lenora

Senior Member
Messages
4,926
Well @ Rufous, I haven't heard any information on this illness in a no. of mos. Something is obviously wrong and too many people are being affected.

One thing I haven't heard is whether or not other employees in the same building are affected. It's possible that the entire building is a government one, though, so that wouldn't be of much help. Very mysterious that's for certain. Yours, Lenora
 
Jyoti

Jyoti

Senior Member
Messages
3,379
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lenora

Senior Member
Messages
4,926
Right....they did an "investigation." As per usual the patients were not exposed to anything, apart from some environmental situations. Of course they didn't say what they were.

So now we have how many patients, spread over how many embassies that are victims of mass hysteria? The same old story. I once saw those patients interviewed. One Ph.D could hardly even talk, but we all know it wasn't real. Perhaps the whole of life is just imagination....it's frustrating to say the very least.

I don't know what happened to the microwave theory, but don't you know it's just all in the heads of those afflicted?

Yes, I could see a blight of crickets causing tinnitus....but quite honestly, they're easily killed off or die of their own accord. They do also smell when dead (as all dead things do).

I should say that I'm going with both the news article and an interview I saw of the victims themselves. Did they ever recover...and how? (The newspaper article leads one to believe they did). The TV interview made things look less hopeful. Thanks, Jyoti. Yours, Lenora
 
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leokitten

Senior Member
Messages
1,578
Location
U.S.
Even though they found no “smoking gun” they still know from the evidence that something is wrong

Politico: Pentagon still probing what caused ‘Havana Syndrome,’ even after spy agencies found no smoking gun

Of course we can be almost certain the cause is different from ME/CFS, though it’s very useful for studying ME pathology and etiology to see that the symptoms are eerily similar?

People with Havana syndrome describe their “brain is broken” and they struggle doing exertion without severe pain afterwards. All of us have been saying this about our illnesses for many years. Crashes for many of us feel like an insane severe concussion or other major head trauma.

I’m wondering what can we learn from this, did the chronic immune activation after the triggering illness simply cause us permanent brain damage? After my triggering infection I felt like I had encephalitis and that my brain was going to explode for most of the following year. Super swollen lymph nodes in my neck and groin, etc.

Maybe the MRIs done in ME studies were not advanced enough or had too small cohort to reveal similar brain damage findings.
 
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leokitten

Senior Member
Messages
1,578
Location
U.S.
Maybe the single connecting pathology between Havana and ME/CFS is balance and vestibular damage to the inner ear and/or cerebellum white matter.

I’ve not talked about it here, but one very prominent ME symptom I have is that when I’m upright my brain and body seem to be constantly doing noticeable micro-adjustments to keep myself upright and to keep my balance. Never existed before ME. My torso and head constantly micro-wobble and adjust back to front (not side to side) in a battle to keep my torso balanced and my body upright.

It’s like some signaling mechanism doesn’t work or is giving the wrong info (vestibular inner ear possibly) and my body has to use other sources of info to maintain my balance and these other sources are nowhere near as accurate (like my eyes).

I feel this could be a big contributor to ME symptoms because your brain has to expend so much energy on your balance which it didn’t have to do before. This alone could cause many of the symptoms we experience.
 
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cheeseater

Senior Member
Messages
184
Sounds a lot like psychotropic drug withdrawl. Stopped the gaba, elavil or prozac etc etc etc without tapering.

Maybe the FBI came to the conclusions they did after reviewing medical records (without talking to) because the records explained it all? But I would never trust the Gov't.
 
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hapl808

Senior Member
Messages
2,099
leokitten said:
Of course we can be almost certain the cause is different from ME/CFS, though it’s very useful for studying ME pathology and etiology to see that the symptoms are eerily similar?
Click to expand...

Why would the cause be different from ME/CFS? These tend to be people stationed in countries where they might be exposed to pathogens their immune systems were unfamiliar with, and many here (myself included) have onsets that coincided with some sort of illness acquired overseas. Before COVID, no one would make the connection with a food poisoning incident or viral infection months before a new illness onset. Even now, doctors will dismiss that.

My own guess is that Havana Syndrome is just a subset (or superset?) of ME/CFS type stuff, as is Long Covid. Unfortunately, hard to define when none of these causes are understood.
 
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leokitten

Senior Member
Messages
1,578
Location
U.S.
hapl808 said:
Why would the cause be different from ME/CFS? These tend to be people stationed in countries where they might be exposed to pathogens their immune systems were unfamiliar with, and many here (myself included) have onsets that coincided with some sort of illness acquired overseas. Before COVID, no one would make the connection with a food poisoning incident or viral infection months before a new illness onset. Even now, doctors will dismiss that.

My own guess is that Havana Syndrome is just a subset (or superset?) of ME/CFS type stuff, as is Long Covid. Unfortunately, hard to define when none of these causes are understood.
Click to expand...

Mainly because none of the Havana syndrome cohort ever reported pathogen illness-like symptoms before onset, they all reported a highly specific and distinct set of acute symptoms at onset and it happened very abruptly (within minutes to hours of exposure) as if something was basically cooking their brain.

I’ve never heard anyone with ME/CFS reporting their onset in this manner.
 
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hapl808

Senior Member
Messages
2,099
leokitten said:
Mainly because none of the Havana syndrome cohort ever reported pathogen illness-like symptoms before onset, they all reported a highly specific and distinct set of acute symptoms at onset and it happened very abruptly (within minutes to hours of exposure) as if something was basically cooking their brain.
Click to expand...

I believe they may have reported that mostly because they were told that's how it happened. There are reports of tinnitus-like symptoms and other things 'suddenly' occurring, but there's no clear 'exposure' that's happening. They've had it happen when at home, when walking to work, when at work, etc. It seems very unlikely that someone is firing energy weapons at US gov't employees all over the world and the CIA hasn't heard a peep about it.

I think that like ME/CFS their symptoms are real and the illness is real, but it's impossible to know the cause. This is why N=1 medicine isn't great, and one of the difficulties in studying Long Covid. Are all those people suffering Long Covid? Could some of them be suffering from genetic causes, other pathogens, physical injuries, environmental exposures, etc. And some of their onsets sound a lot like HS - sudden buzzing or tremors, etc.

As I say about a lot of stuff - we really have no idea what's going on, so it's all guesswork at best.
 
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