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Griffith Uni ME/CFS Centre for NeuroImmunology & Emerging Diseases opens

alex3619

Senior Member
Messages
13,810
Location
Logan, Queensland, Australia
So antibodies? I thought they were looking for other things... I need to read up (and remember) what it is they claim to be looking for and is seen by them as being important. But basically, you are saying they are looking at blood for use in this machine then?

You can make antibodies to attach to most biological molecules. The antibodies flash when lasered, the targets they are attached to can be anything. According to Cort the modern machines can simultaneously test up to (iirc) 18 different targets simultaneously. So you can make antibodies to attach to one of the CD markers on the surface, then count how many flashes you get as the blood passes through. These lasered antibodies light up these cells like lights on a Christmas tree, which then is recorded.
 

Firestormm

Senior Member
Messages
5,055
Location
Cornwall England
You can make antibodies to attach to most biological molecules. The antibodies flash when lasered, the targets they are attached to can be anything. According to Cort the modern machines can simultaneously test up to (iirc) 18 different targets simultaneously. So you can make antibodies to attach to one of the CD markers on the surface, then count how many flashes you get as the blood passes through. These lasered antibodies light up these cells like lights on a Christmas tree, which then is recorded.

So.... they are looking for evidence of infection? Current infection and/or past infection? And why this obsession with antibiotics? No worries if you don't know matey - I need to do some reading :)
 

MeSci

ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?
Messages
8,231
Location
Cornwall, UK
Lol MeSci, I do realize you are half joking, but here are some ideas.

I do have a spare room but this place is SUPER hot, even for a Queenslander. Most people from colder climes would melt. :eek: It is however used for storage, and is full to the door ... I do wonder if I could get storage room somewhere and move it all. However I am still a long way from the institute, and public transport is not good between here and there unless you can handle trains. Otherwise I would consider helping people out for the short term anyway.

I am considering contacting the people at the institute and inquire about lodging, rooms, etc in nearby areas. The Gold Coast hotels/motels etc. tend to be very very expensive, though I guess it depends where you stay.

Now a place on the Gold Coast such as a several room short term accommodation apartment might be hired by several patients, and used as needed. Serviced rooms only cost a little more than a hotel room for a single person if I recall correctly, but tend to be out of the tourist district ... which is good, because Griffith University is outside of it too. There will probably be high demand times when no rooms are available though.

As a Griffith University alumni I can probably get some hotel room discount for myself, but it would still be very expensive.

If I recall correctly the hospital has or is getting some beds for ME patients, that likely will have nurses etc. who are actually trained to deal with ME by people who know what they are doing. That has to be a big plus!

For anyone with the strength for a little holidaying, which sadly is too few of us, the Gold Coast is a premium tourist destination, though much of it is energy intensive.

Ah, well, @alex3619, I will just have to continue admiring you from afar! :D Even if I could manage the journey from Cornwall I might need a prolonged period of convalescence afterwards, and it sounds as though I would turn into a pool of liquid human first, making a nasty mess.

It does all sound very promising for people living nearer or more able to travel though! :)
 

alex3619

Senior Member
Messages
13,810
Location
Logan, Queensland, Australia
So.... they are looking for evidence of infection? Current infection and/or past infection? And why this obsession with antibiotics? No worries if you don't know matey - I need to do some reading :)

You can use this to count cells like NK cells, or bright NK cells or dim NK cells. Its a diverse technology. You can count most biological molecules, though I think it works best on cells.

This is the third (?second) time I posted this. It has been glitching, but at least it was saved.
 

Elph68

Senior Member
Messages
598
What study? And has it been published? And why antibiotics - what do they claim to have found? Thanks.
Hi Firestormm,

They are saying that bacteria classed as normal flora .... are the cause of CFS, but requires further study .....

They are asking for Aussies to go and have some blood tests for their machine .... those with CFS, and those who are normal to be used as controls.

It is going to come out .... this is a chronic mucosal inflammation caused by in most cases, normal flora (streptococcus, enterococcus & lactobacillus) that results in a chronic auto-immune response and the subsequent complications ......

Something like ..... Streptococcus sanguinis/parasanguinis +- enterococcus facaelis and lactobacillius vaginalis working together = chronic inflammation and CFS .... How is that for stretching the minds ....
 

Elph68

Senior Member
Messages
598
As far as antibiotics go ..... they can be part of the cause of the problem, but are also a big part of the cure ....

I have vancomycin + ciprofloxican + Augmentin Forte + Azithromycin for a month in order to try and run these suckers down ....
 

MeSci

ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?
Messages
8,231
Location
Cornwall, UK
Hi Firestormm,

They are saying that bacteria classed as normal flora .... are the cause of CFS, but requires further study .....

They are asking for Aussies to go and have some blood tests for their machine .... those with CFS, and those who are normal to be used as controls.

It is going to come out .... this is a chronic mucosal inflammation caused by in most cases, normal flora (streptococcus, enterococcus & lactobacillus) that results in a chronic auto-immune response and the subsequent complications ......

Something like ..... Streptococcus sanguinis/parasanguinis +- enterococcus facaelis and lactobacillius vaginalis working together = chronic inflammation and CFS .... How is that for stretching the minds ....

Leaky gut...? :smug:
 

aimossy

Senior Member
Messages
1,106
whos they @Elph68 did you have this tested through the CDD?
I keep meaning to ask on the thread you posted because im really interested in the stuff your up to with gut etc.
maybe I should have posted this on that thread.:)
 

Simon

Senior Member
Messages
3,789
Location
Monmouth, UK
Info on flow cytometery

I don't think there has been any revolution in flow cytometery so I suspect that Griffith Uni simply have the most bang-up-to-date version of a technology that is constantly evolving.

Basically it's a very powerful tool that is used primarily on whole cells to detect - and even sort - different types of immune cells based on specific surface proteins (which can include biomarkers). The flourescent antibodies Alex mentions are used to "tag" particular cell surface proteins of interest, then cells are pushed through the flow cytometry kit and each cell is then counted according to the tag on it's surface. It's used to sort out different lymphocytes eg CD4 from CD8, or Natural Killer cells (specifically looked at in the Griffith uni studies) - and even subypes of these cell groups - based on the different electrical charge on the different cells (see video below).

Flow cytometry - Wikipedia,
In cell biology, flow cytometry is a laser-based, biophysical technology employed in cell counting, cell sorting, biomarker detection and protein engineering, by suspending cells in a stream of fluid and passing them by an electronic detection apparatus. It allows simultaneous multiparametric analysis of the physical and chemical characteristics of up to thousands of particles per second.

Flow cytometry is routinely used in the diagnosis of health disorders, especially blood cancers, but has many other applications in basic research, clinical practice and clinical trials. A common variation is to physically sort particles based on their properties, so as to purify populations of interest.

Animation of flow cytometery used to sort cells

diagram of the kit involved:
flow-cytometry_500.jpg
 
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Snow Leopard

Hibernating
Messages
5,902
Location
South Australia
This is very important news. Elizabeth Unger, of the CDC, is going to give the opening address, participate in officially unveiling the center's plaque, and will deliver a closing address. Clearly, the CDC is giving its imprimatur to this approach to the illness. Major.

Hey, if the CDC want to fund research at Griffith University rather than the stuff they've been doing so far...
 

aimossy

Senior Member
Messages
1,106
Looks like invest in ME put money towards this tool at Griffith Uni. I saw this stated tonight on their FB page.
 

Marco

Grrrrrrr!
Messages
2,386
Location
Near Cognac, France
Hi Firestormm,

They are saying that bacteria classed as normal flora .... are the cause of CFS, but requires further study .....

They are asking for Aussies to go and have some blood tests for their machine .... those with CFS, and those who are normal to be used as controls.

It is going to come out .... this is a chronic mucosal inflammation caused by in most cases, normal flora (streptococcus, enterococcus & lactobacillus) that results in a chronic auto-immune response and the subsequent complications ......

Something like ..... Streptococcus sanguinis/parasanguinis +- enterococcus facaelis and lactobacillius vaginalis working together = chronic inflammation and CFS .... How is that for stretching the minds ....

Plausible.

Stress - leaky gut - LPS translocation - Toll like receptors - microglial activation/neuroinflammation could explain all ME/CFS symptoms.

http://www.biologicalpsychiatryjournal.com/article/S0006-3223(12)00599-9/fulltext

In addition, transient breakdown of the blood brain barrier or spreading neuroinflammation via the parachema could expose the central nervous system to autoimmune processes.

Antibiotics could nip this process in the bud. The antibiotic Minocycline may have a double whammy effect on bacterial translocation and microglial activation. In theory :

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23470532

I'd still like to see something in print though as to how this relates to ME/CFS.
 
Last edited:

MeSci

ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?
Messages
8,231
Location
Cornwall, UK
Plausible.

Stress - leaky gut - LPS translocation - Toll like receptors - microglial activation/neuroinflammation could explain all ME/CFS symptoms.

http://www.biologicalpsychiatryjournal.com/article/S0006-3223(12)00599-9/fulltext

In addition, transient breakdown of the blood brain barrier or spreading neuroinflammation via the parachema could expose the central nervous system to autoimmune processes.

Antibiotics could nip this process in the bud. The antibiotic Minocycline may have a double whammy effect on bacterial translocation and microglial activation. In theory :

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23470532

I'd still like to see something in print though as to how this relates to ME/CFS.

There are several scientific teams working in this general area (leaky gut) but not necessarily all focusing on the same culprit microorganisms:

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?forums/the-gut-de-meirleir-maes-h2s-leaky-gut.9/
 

akrasia

Senior Member
Messages
215
@Elph wrote:

They are saying that bacteria classed as normal flora .... are the cause of CFS, but requires further study .....

And this chimes nicely with Ian Lipkin's intuition that the answer to the causality of m.e. lies in the gut microbiome.

One of the questions raised by Unger's journey is why does the CDC want to be identified with Griffith's research?

If they are as close as you suggest associating with an impending breakthrough like this might afford some cover when the inevitable questions arise about how and why they've mangled things.
 

Elph68

Senior Member
Messages
598
@Elph wrote:



And this chimes nicely with Ian Lipkin's intuition that the answer to the causality of m.e. lies in the gut microbiome.

One of the questions raised by Unger's journey is why does the CDC want to be identified with Griffith's research?

If they are as close as you suggest associating with an impending breakthrough like this might afford some cover when the inevitable questions arise about how and why they've mangled things.

It is a little more than just gut microbione .... it is all the mucous membranes .... Sore throat, vaginitis, prostatitis, sore eyes, nose, psoriasis, colon .... they are all attacked by these bugs giving a whole of body inflammation ....

All the information is out there .... just nobody has linked them all together ...... YET!
 

akrasia

Senior Member
Messages
215
It is a little more than just gut microbione .... it is all the mucous membranes .... Sore throat, vaginitis, prostatitis, sore eyes, nose, psoriasis, colon .... they are all attacked by these bugs giving a whole of body inflammation ....

All the information is out there .... just nobody has linked them all together ...... YET!

Thanks for the clarification.

Marshall Gradasnik et al. received a grant from the Edward P. Evans foundation: Investigation of Immunological and Genetic Features of CFS and MDS
Griffith University (Australia), Leads: Sonya Marshall-Gradisnik, Don Staines, Ekua Brenu

The Edward P. Evans Foundation is supporting research that looks at the relation of m.e. to prostate cancer and MDS.
They're worth a look.

Does Griffith have any idea of something upstream that sets the inflammation into motion?
 

alex3619

Senior Member
Messages
13,810
Location
Logan, Queensland, Australia
Plausible.

Stress - leaky gut - LPS translocation - Toll like receptors - microglial activation/neuroinflammation could explain all ME/CFS symptoms.

http://www.biologicalpsychiatryjournal.com/article/S0006-3223(12)00599-9/fulltext

In addition, transient breakdown of the blood brain barrier or spreading neuroinflammation via the parachema could expose the central nervous system to autoimmune processes.

Antibiotics could nip this process in the bud. The antibiotic Minocycline may have a double whammy effect on bacterial translocation and microglial activation. In theory :

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23470532

I'd still like to see something in print though as to how this relates to ME/CFS.

One of the hypotheses I have been entertaining involves translocation of LPS from the gut as the trigger that transitions from injury or infection to ME. Its not just about tolll-like receptors though. LPS triggers a wide range of things, including migration of immune cells. I have a half written blog about this that I doubt I will be finishing any time soon.
 

Elph68

Senior Member
Messages
598
One of the hypotheses I have been entertaining involves translocation of LPS from the gut as the trigger that transitions from injury or infection to ME. Its not just about tolll-like receptors though. LPS triggers a wide range of things, including migration of immune cells. I have a half written blog about this that I doubt I will be finishing any time soon.

Hi Alex,

You may like this article ....
 

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