Good foods for emergency snacks

Scarecrow

Revolting Peasant
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So, if starch isn't causing a problem, then you know that the sugar or sugars responsible are not those produced when starch is digested.

What I was thinking was that starch breaks down to the sugars maltose, maltotriose and glucose. In turn maltose and maltotriose also break down to glucose.

Scrap that thought. I went barking up the wrong tree and I think that you and PatJ have solved a 15 year old mystery for me.

I used to have pelvic pain, which resolved suddenly and I had no idea until now that it was in anyway connected to what I was eating. Before the pain eased, I was following the sort of diet that most nutritionists would have been fairly happy with. High in complex carbohydrates, quite low in fat, adequate protein, five portions of fruit or veg most days, food freshly cooked, no ready meals etc etc. But I was overweight and couldn't lose it. So I started a diet that was low carb (no more than 60g per day) but with fat and protein totally unrestricted. My pelvic pain went away. I had assumed that the pain was related to being overweight and I never thought about it again until now. Having read the link that PatJ gave here...........

As far as sugar induced pelvic pain, this may provide more info for readers of this thread:

.................it's quite probable that the pain resolved because my blood sugar and insulin levels weren't spiking any longer.

60g carbohydrate is reasonably easy to achieve if you're able to eat animal protein but I don't think it would be possible for a vegan. However there are other ways to limit sugar spikes and insulin. Obviously, a low glycaemic index diet is one way, as PatJ suggested. But you already indicated that you avoid beetroots and should probably limit carrots so I'm guessing that you're already wise to low glycaemic index foods.

Another way to avoid the spikes seems to be by eating resistant starches. The thread The Resistant Starch Challenge: Is It The Key We've Been Looking For? is currently stretching to 174 pages but the opening post is full of good information. This may be a way to get a similar effect as a low carb diet and take care of your gut bacteria at the same time. A word of warning though - some posters have advised starting slowly with resistant starch. Sorry for taking your thread of topic - it isn't exactly what you asked for but I hope the RS thread is useful.

If your blood sugar is dropping due to reactive hypoglycemia (not sure if it's the reason in your case) then taking sugar is not a good idea. It enters the body rapidly, causing a blood sugar spike, then the body releases insulin to lower the blood sugar. The problem with reactive hypoglycemia is that the body overreacts, produces too much insulin, and can push the blood sugar too low, which produces associated symptoms again. Taking sugar results in a roller-coaster graph of blood sugar values.
Yes, I'm familiar with the rollercoaster from years back but, as you know, it isn't just sugar that causes the rollercoaster. The question was about adding a small amount of dried fruit to seeds, not about eating the dried fruit on it's own.

As an adult, I've never eaten a lot of sugar and I'm not big on refined carbs generally but until I adopted that 60g carb diet, I had terrible reactive hypoglycaemia. In other words, even relatively low glycaemic foods weren't working for me. Even though I'm less restrictive with the carbs now, I almost always skip breakfast and often lunch and my blood sugar couldn't be more stable. Unfortunately, when I do eat, I'm a feaster. No full up button. Appetite hormones not right, probably.
 

Scarecrow

Revolting Peasant
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@perchance dreamer I still remember vividly what it was like to feel the need to either eat NOW! or faint (or possibly kill someone). There will be a solution for you but it's a matter of finding out what works best.

I was fortunate in that I corrected my problem when I had almost recovered and I was living a near normal life. I had the energy I needed to provide the will power to persist. The first few days were tough but after that it was just a matter of maintaining the new way and not allowing the old habits to creep in.

If I'd had to learn a new way of eating after relapsing, it would have been more difficult but not impossible. I think that the more severely affected you are, the more difficult it is to make any change.
 

MeSci

ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?
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60g carbohydrate is reasonably easy to achieve if you're able to eat animal protein but I don't think it would be possible for a vegan.
I'm a vegan and managed to lose excess weight and improve/resolve many symptoms in a similar way to you, by reducing sugar and grains. I also cut out gluten. It is harder, but doable!

This page lists foods in order of available carb content. If you work from the bottom up you can find vegan foods that are low in available carb, and base your diet around those.

I don't think about it too much, but probably do need to reduce carb a bit more at the moment.
 

MeSci

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@Calathea I just spotted that you are vegan. There are eggs in the recipes that I provided but there shouldn't be any problem replacing them with your egg substitute of choice.

When I ate cakes, I made vegan sponges without any egg or egg substitute. I haven't eaten cakes for years, but this is the recipe for the one I used to make:

7 oz 81% self-raising flour
1 heaped tsp baking powder
1 oz cocoa or drinking chocolate
2 oz free soft brown sugar (don't ask - I probably just used any sugar!)
3 oz oil
8 oz water

Mix dry ingredients. Pour oil into measuring jug. Stir into the dry ingredients and beat until smooth. Cook in oiled sandwich tins for 15 mins at 350 F or 177 C or Gas Mk 4. Allow to cool before removing from tins.

Obviously you can adapt to suit your needs/preferences, but it's just an example of a very simple egg-free vegan cake. It was very nice! Didn't always turn out right, but still tasted good.
 

MeSci

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You can get half-sized tins of chick peas, though, and I bet my partner would love this.

It's much cheaper to buy dried pulses than tinned. You can cook up a big batch after giving them a long soak, then freeze what you don't want immediately. I do this a lot.
 

Calathea

Senior Member
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I know they're cheaper, but the convenience of tinned pulses is much more important for me. Occasionally we will sling on beans to boil a few hours ahead of supper, generally at a weekend, but this is something like once or twice a month, and the rest of the time I get very nice tinned beans in bulk from Amazon, D'aucy brand. I'll give that recipe a try some time and see how I do.

People assuming I have blood sugar fluctuating all over the place: I got my GP to test me for diabetes recently, since I have pretty much all the symptoms and had been tested as having a blood sugar of 14 on an empty stomach after surgery in hospital (we now reckon this was an error), and my blood sugar apparently is quite exemplary.

I've tried low-carb, I don't do well on it. I've managed to lose significant amounts of weight in the past by doing nothing more than cutting calories, since I was already on a healthy diet. Also I do have to stay on a low-fat diet by doctor's orders due to Sphincter of Oddi Dysfunction (annoying side effect of having my gallbladder out, and by annoying I mean rare but excruciatingly painful when it occurs), and low-carb diets are high-fat diets. I'm not looking to make major changes to my diet, I'm pretty happy with that, and I tweak this and that as needed.

By the way, I am not currently looking for cake recipes! That one seems to have been us getting our wires crossed. (I have plenty of recipes already for when I'm up to consuming them.)

Vegan pates - never really felt the need for them, and I am minimising processed food anyway as it tends to cause trouble with histamine. But thanks for the link.

After saying I'm minimising processed food, I am actually starting to play around with protein powder for snacks. Someone suggested it in this thread, and while it wouldn't work as an emergency snack for when I'm out, I'm not out much, and it's worth thinking about as a mid-afternoon snack. It's an easy way of tilting my macronutrient balance more towards protein without having to cook really weird stuff (I was on a mix of quinoa and red lentils to replace rice when I tried a low-carb diet, fairly odd) or get too much fat. The protein powder I currently have sitting around is the Jarrow Plant Proteins, which is primarily a mix of pea, rice and hemp protein, plus some chia, golden chlorella, vanilla and four different types of sweetener, none of them too scary I think. I've found that if I mix one scoop (half a serving) with some soya milk until it's pudding consistency, I can get it down as a snack. It tastes too peculiar to be worth trying to integrate it into other foods. Is this a good idea? A UK supplier, myprotein.com, does a vegan blend protein powder which is just rice, pea and hemp protein when you get the plain version. I'm guessing that has the same amino acid balance as the Jarrow one since it has the same core ingredients, it's just minus the sweeteners and such. Of course, I don't know whether I'd need the sweeteners and vanilla in order to get it down me. Would I be better off using the plain one and adding stevia or xylitol or something? I have a kilo of chia seeds sitting around too (bought them to play with in sourdough, I should get back to that actually), if they are useful to have in there (I reckon that was just "superfood" marketing, but hey, it adds crunch to the chalky powder), and apparently you can get vanilla powder, or add cocoa powder, or whatever. Probably cheaper that way.

Actually, before I start buying another kilo of protein powder and adding all sorts of things to it, I should work out whether or not I want to be taking protein powder in the first place. I've read a few threads on it in this forum, people seem to have various opinions. The one that really stood out was someone having a bad reaction, but they were on a protein powder with a lot of added ingredients, so it could have been that. The pea/rice/hemp ones I'm using/eyeing up seem to be the best blend of vegetable protein sources, I noticed quite a few people discussing that since they either weren't tolerating whey or are dairy-free. Are there any risks to taking protein powder? Is it worth just diving in, trying it for a few months, seeing how I do? I know quite a few people recommend high protein diets for folks with ME, although so much bollocks is talked about diet for ME that it's really, really hard to pick out the good stuff.

Does taking protein powder mean I can skip trying to supplement with the amino acids it contains? I've been trying to take L-tyrosine in the morning and it set off stomach pain, possibly the Sphincter of Oddi Dysfunction (SOD for short, which amuses me), so I gave up. That Jarrow protein powder has a similar amount of tyrosine in it anyway, though I'm taking it mid-afternoon.
 

Calathea

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I've been getting lost on the sugar stuff, but do we have any verdict on whether or not I should include a bit of sugar in the emergency food I keep in my handbag for when I'm out and suddenly get exhausted?

And now for lunch. Pasta with onion, mushrooms and lentils, nice and sustaining, complex carbs and protein. It's partly because my partner woke up with migraine and he seemed to fare well on this lunch last time that happened.
 

MeSci

ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?
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I think we're all getting ideas from this thread, so if something isn't appropriate for one of us it might suit another.

My own policy is to avoid sugar if at all possible, because of the likelihood of causing sugar spikes and reactive hypoglycaemia, with all the hazards that can accompany it such as chronic hyperinsulaemia. I'd rather rely on my body to make its own sugar. But we are all different, with different metabolisms, microbiomes and general diets.
 

brenda

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I wouldn't touch any protein powder that contained any flavorings and rice protein is a but iffy due to arsenic (Google it). They have been tested to see which ones are the least toxic and you can find the results. Always go for the top brands that are raw and organic. I use hemp and a brown rice one. I think they are an excellent way to take in more protein.
 

Scarecrow

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By the way, I am not currently looking for cake recipes! That one seems to have been us getting our wires crossed. (I have plenty of recipes already for when I'm up to consuming them.)
Fair point. I'll delete my post with the chickpea and carrot traybake.
 

Scarecrow

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People assuming I have blood sugar fluctuating all over the place: I got my GP to test me for diabetes recently, since I have pretty much all the symptoms and had been tested as having a blood sugar of 14 on an empty stomach after surgery in hospital (we now reckon this was an error), and my blood sugar apparently is quite exemplary.
I don't think anyone has assumed that.

PatJ's post was about rapid changes in blood sugar, not about levels being too high or too low.

I've been getting lost on the sugar stuff, but do we have any verdict on whether or not I should include a bit of sugar in the emergency food I keep in my handbag for when I'm out and suddenly get exhausted?
Opinion is divided. There are pros and cons.

I think we've pretty well established by now that your sugar intake is minimal. So any small amount of sugar you do take isn't going to be causing a spike. If you feel the need to eat urgently and incorporating a small amount of sugar makes you feel better, then do it.
 

PatJ

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I've been getting lost on the sugar stuff, but do we have any verdict on whether or not I should include a bit of sugar in the emergency food I keep in my handbag for when I'm out and suddenly get exhausted?

I think you'll have to experiment. A little added sugar should help you to feel better sooner but keep an eye out for an energy crash an hour or so later.

If possible, try to learn how you feel 10-20 minutes before your energy runs out. Symptoms may be subtle during this period. Many people (but not all) can learn to see that impending energy loss. A sudden blood sugar drop is hard on a body, especially the brain and eyes, so it's best to act before it happens.
 

Calathea

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I wouldn't touch any protein powder that contained any flavorings and rice protein is a but iffy due to arsenic (Google it). They have been tested to see which ones are the least toxic and you can find the results. Always go for the top brands that are raw and organic. I use hemp and a brown rice one. I think they are an excellent way to take in more protein.

The flavouring is vanilla, I'm not bothered about that, I'd be adding it myself if I were making it from a more basic protein powder. I'm more concerned about the various sweeteners. They sound like the good variety, and buying it ready made does make life easier, although I have to ship it in from abroad. I still can't work out what the Metabolin stuff is, though, nor how much of the sweeteners is in there. Heaven knows you need something in there to make it palatable. I just googled rice and arsenic, it sounds like it's not actually a problem? I eat rice reguarly anyway.
 

Calathea

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I think you'll have to experiment. A little added sugar should help you to feel better sooner but keep an eye out for an energy crash an hour or so later.

If possible, try to learn how you feel 10-20 minutes before your energy runs out. Symptoms may be subtle during this period. Many people (but not all) can learn to see that impending energy loss. A sudden blood sugar drop is hard on a body, especially the brain and eyes, so it's best to act before it happens.

Good point, I probably will experiment. It doesn't happen often when I'm out anyway. Having a bodywork treatment of some sort, such as acupuncture, seems to set it off. My Fitbit tells me that my heart rate drops lower during the treatment, down to the 50s, and apparently it's normal for it to lower your blood pressure temporarily. There's nothing I can really do during the treatment, I don't know if there's anything I can do beforehand. Usually I eat lunch at 1ish and have acupuncture at 3.30. That said, I've got my last treatment coming up, I'm going to stop after that and try to work out whether it helped my pain levels or not. So this might not be a thing after all.

As for getting exhausted if I'm out socialising, if I'm with my partner he knows to keep an eye on me, especially for my lips turning blue. I chug electrolytes while I'm out, the sort which don't contain sugar (Nuun). (Amazingly, not one pub has ever noticed.) I'm not great at keeping track of how I'm doing when I'm socialising, it usually takes me a while to notice. Any tips on what to keep an eye on? Sometimes the cat bosses me back to bed when I really need to lie down, but not reliably!

Sometimes I'll feel a bit light-headed and have a snack, say some almonds, and notice that I get a head rush as soon as I bite into them. That means I've got more exhausted than I realised. Does anyone else get that odd head rush?

As for the sugar thing, I may as well just experiment. I'll get more of a head rush if I have it, that's one reason why I don't go for something like a piece of fruit when I feel like that. But perhaps a small amount might help? It tends to be different when I'm out, I'm usually more exhausted and don't have the option of immediately crawling into bed with the heated blanket.
 

brenda

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They have found high levels of arsenic in rice. It definitely is a problem. Food from America is a bit risky due to the rubbish they put in. Even organic over there does not have to be 100% . Vanilla flavouring covers a multitude of sins.
 

Calathea

Senior Member
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Do you have any proof for the rice thing? Everything I'm finding online says the scare was unfounded.

The Jarrow one says "natural French vanilla flavour". Hopefully that means actual vanilla extract, but you're right, it's a bit vague. Are Jarrow respectable enough to be trusted on this? And are there actual problems with people with ME being harmed by vanilla flavouring?

If I do this long term, what might be a safer alternative would be to source the rice, pea and hemp protein powders separately and then mix them, which would give me better quality control. It's too much cost and storage upfront, though, but I'd consider it after a couple of months, if I were seeing a benefit, and if I found genuine cause for concern with the premixed ones.
 

Calathea

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P.S. Things I'm actually concerned about with that protein powder: getting an upset stomach or other reactions to the sweeteners, and getting those blasted chia seeds caught in my teeth.
 

MeSci

ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?
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The Jarrow one says "natural French vanilla flavour". Hopefully that means actual vanilla extract, but you're right, it's a bit vague. Are Jarrow respectable enough to be trusted on this? And are there actual problems with people with ME being harmed by vanilla flavouring?/QUOTE]

There is a synthetic vanilla flavour called ethyl vanillin which can have adverse effects, but unless a company was very dishonest or lax with the truth, 'natural vanilla flavour' should mean what it says. I think that ethyl vanillin may sometimes be sometimes just called vanillin, which can also refer to the natural chemical.
Jarrow seems pretty well trusted.

I don't know if natural vanilla is a problem for anyone with ME.
 
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