GI Effects results H.pylori and yeast

[end]

@end I do take zinc supplementation a few times a week and find it problematic at times, but not always. I take it before bedtime on an empty stomach and I get this grinding/sick type feeling. Is this how you feel when you take zinc?

I took Betaine and Pepsin years ago but it's possible I didn't take enough to get the proper effect because I was still not absorbing. I now take Digestive enzymes with Pepsin and it does make a difference.

I agree the immune dysfunction is a huge issue. I've been working on that for 23yrs. I took Equilbriant and Inosine for several months, it didn't make a difference unfortunately. I hope it helps you.

Hi Mij

Close, 21 years for me

I get a REALY bad headache and my eyes turn red with a sick/nauseated feeling. I can only tolerate about 15mgs of any form from a capsule/tablet

Zinc carnosin, a slightly higher dose

Liquid Zinc up to 100mgs with NO reaction at all - this also boosted Testosterone levels after 6weeks and was the ONLY form to increase plasma Zinc concentrations

I am yet to experiment with 6x HCL and pepsin with a full dose of Zinc in tablet/capsule form. Too afraid though

I have been on porcine Digestive Enzymes for over a decade which do very little, after adding the HCL with Pepsin the difference has been INSAINE!

Like I described to Hip, McBride has stated in her book Gut And Phycology Syndrome that pathogens in the Gut drastically reduce HCL levels, she also explains how important proper HCL levels are at setting up the digestive cascade of events, even how proper levels promote the release of pancreatic enzymes. I HIGHLY simplified what she describes in that chapter of her book.

You need to take enough HCL with pepsin to notice the difference, some have described taking enough when they feel 'warmth' from there stomach. Once again that description is highly simplified - research it.

Hmmm I really struggle to understand some times why some things work in some and not others. Dr Chia has found only 51% respond to Oxymatrine...

Would LOVE to know exacterly why there are non responders?

Like I described on another thread Epicor and a Mushroom complex(both Th1 promoters)gave me DRASTIC side effects!

-Headache
-Dizzyness
-Cramping tight muscles in neck

So, I expect to be hit by a truck with this Oxy/Inosine combo??

 

[Mij]

@end thanks for your info, I'm going to look into this further, ie liquid zinc and increasing Betaine. Great about your testoterone going up! Regarding immune modulators, I've had reactions (bad) to some and no reaction to others. Why are you taking Oxymatrine and not Equilbriant? Just curious. Since you've been sick for so long like me, I'm sure you know to start slow and back off when you feel those bad symptoms. I had extreme weakness, neuro symptoms, back pain and dizziness when I took Imunovir years ago, it put me back into a bad relapse when I had been up to 80% improved. I've never recovered back to previous state and that was 14yrs ago. For now I'm sticking with antioxidants and leaving my immune system alone

Good luck with the Oxy/Inosine and hoping you'll be in the 51% positive reaction.

 

[Violeta]

This paper says that h pylori binds to the epithelia in the stomach with copper.
http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0079455

That is probably why the Japanese scientists decided to try zinc plus carnosine in their formula for h pylori.
I would think it works because it removes the copper, so when you're taking zinc carnosine it might take a while to start working, and you might have to use it for a while. A low copper diet might help, too.

H pylori is a gram negative bacteria, so when the cell walls break down endotoxins go into the system. Endotoxins can cause annoying symptoms, especially if there is unregulated copper available. That's what causes mast cell degranulation, which adds more junk into the system. I've seen with anthous ulcers that mast cells may be involved, so maybe,(and I'll look for a study on this) mast cells are involved in stomach ulcers, too.

 

[end]

@end thanks for your info, I'm going to look into this further, ie liquid zinc and increasing Betaine. Great about your testoterone going up! Regarding immune modulators, I've had reactions (bad) to some and no reaction to others. Why are you taking Oxymatrine and not Equilbriant? Just curious. Since you've been sick for so long like me, I'm sure you know to start slow and back off when you feel those bad symptoms. I had extreme weakness, neuro symptoms, back pain and dizziness when I took Imunovir years ago, it put me back into a bad relapse when I had been up to 80% improved. I've never recovered back to previous state and that was 14yrs ago. For now I'm sticking with antioxidants and leaving my immune system alone

Good luck with the Oxy/Inosine and hoping you'll be in the 51% positive reaction.

@Mij

Sorry I missed this one

Multi herb combos I tend to react to especially anything with astragalus in it, so I am trying to gauge the principle ingredients effectiveness(oxymatrine)and tolerability unshaded

I am sorry to hear you went backwards on Immunovir

From research Dr Lewis and KDM have done they estimated that around 10% of CFS/ME patients suffer TH1 dominance

As Inosine/Immunovir increases TH1 it would be interesting to know if that was the cause of your regression? I would love to post a link however that fact is in paperback and part of my report from them. You may want to google the terms?

 

[Mij]

This paper says that h pylori binds to the epithelia in the stomach with copper.
http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0079455

That is probably why the Japanese scientists decided to try zinc plus carnosine in their formula for h pylori.
I would think it works because it removes the copper, so when you're taking zinc carnosine it might take a while to start working, and you might have to use it for a while. A low copper diet might help, too.

H pylori is a gram negative bacteria, so when the cell walls break down endotoxins go into the system. Endotoxins can cause annoying symptoms, especially if there is unregulated copper available. That's what causes mast cell degranulation, which adds more junk into the system. I've seen with anthous ulcers that mast cells may be involved, so maybe,(and I'll look for a study on this) mast cells are involved in stomach ulcers, too.

My copper and ceruloplasmin werre below normal levels a few years ago. Is this the result of H. Pylori? I'm confused.

 

[Mij]

@Mij

Sorry I missed this one

Multi herb combos I tend to react to especially anything with astragalus in it, so I am trying to gauge the principle ingredients effectiveness(oxymatrine)and tolerability unshaded

I am sorry to hear you went backwards on Immunovir

From research Dr Lewis and KDM have done they estimated that around 10% of CFS/ME patients suffer TH1 dominance

As Inosine/Immunovir increases TH1 it would be interesting to know if that was the cause of your regression? I would love to post a link however that fact is in paperback and part of my report from them. You may want to google the terms?

The virologist that put me on Imunovir didn't know what to make of my reaction, he basically said his pts felt less "fatigue". whatever. At the time I took it I found out a month later that I was infected with H.Pylori so perhaps the whole immunilogical cascade started. I was crawling to his office I was so sick. I also think the dosage of Imunovir was too high for me. I could very well be TH1 dominant. I recovered some what but as a result I got OI which I didn't have before that. Thanks for you information and I hope you get positive results from the Oxymatrine.

 

[Violeta]

My copper and ceruloplasmin werre below normal levels a few years ago. Is this the result of H. Pylori? I'm confused.

It's funny to come here and see your message because just one minute ago I was wondering if pathogens actually cause low copper. I was thinking that with respect to lyme, though, because it actually makes an enzyme similar to metallothionein that chelates copper.

In the case of h pylori I don't know if it actually chelates it, though, I don't know if the h pylori congregates where there are already biounavailable copper cellular deposits or if it's actually causing it to be there. You've heard of biounavailable copper, that's what the copper that is among them would be, I suppose. But I don't know how the copper got there.

 

[Mij]

It's funny to come here and see your message because just one minute ago I was wondering if pathogens actually cause low copper. I was thinking that with respect to lyme, though, because it actually makes an enzyme similar to metallothionein that chelates copper.

In the case of h pylori I don't know if it actually chelates it, though, I don't know if the h pylori congregates where there are already biounavailable copper cellular deposits or if it's actually causing it to be there. You've heard of biounavailable copper, that's what the copper that is among them would be, I suppose. But I don't know how the copper got there.

My understanding is that H.pylori ( I had this for many yrs without knowing) just destroys your gut lining so it impairs mineral absorption. My ferritin will drop below normal levels if I don't supplement. I read that pathogens in general can also deplete iron. How is your ferritin?

 

[end]

@Mij

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