German Medical Association and H1N1Vaccine

Chris

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thanks!

Thanks, Liverock! don't know where you found this, but it gives more info than I have seen elsewhere, and helped me make up my mind--not for me! Best, Chris
 
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Robin

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The American vaccines are made by different companies, none of them include squalene.

And some of the stuff about thimerisol in that article (it sets off autoimmune disease) is unsubstantiated, as the the point about the vaccine being more dangerous than swine flu for people with AIDS. (huh? how do they know that?) There has been a lot of research on squalene, and it doesn't cause squalene antibodies or Gulf War Syndrome. The blog is from the German Professional Association of Environmental Medicine, not the German Medical Association. So, they're going to come out against vaccines, but, they should at least provide sources for their claims.
 

liverock

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The chairman of The German Medical Association drug commission doesnt think the drugs safety has been established and reckons the government has been railroaded by the pharma companies who have initiated a scare to raise profits.

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/339/oct21_2/b4335

Only 12% of Germans say they will have H1N1 vaccine after row blows up over safety of adjuvants

Ned Stafford

1 Hamburg

Concerns are growing in Germany about the safety of the swine flu vaccine that will be available to the general population after news was leaked last weekend that top politicians and some government employees will be given an alternative vaccine.

State and federal health officials announced in August the purchase of 50 million doses of Pandemrix, the H1N1 vaccine produced by GlaxoSmithKline. Pandemrix contains an adjuvant that includes squalene and boosts the effectiveness of the vaccine, meaning a much smaller amount of inactivated virus is needed for an effective dose. However, some experts say that adjuvants can produce inoculation reactions, such as headache and fever, or possibly even longer term side effects.

Michael Kochen, president of the German College of General Practitioners and Family Physicians, told the BMJ that Pandemrix has not been sufficiently tested to be declared safe for millions of people, especially small children and pregnant women. His main concern is the adjuvant.

He will not take the vaccine himself and has advised doctors in the association not to give it to patients, saying that the potential risks outweigh the benefits. He described the 50 million doses for Germany as "a large scale experiment on the German population."

Some doctors have voiced mild concern about Pandemrix in the past two months, especially about potential side effects in pregnant women and children. But those scattered concerns erupted into widespread protest over the weekend, after Der Spiegel news magazine reported that the federal interior ministry had bought 200 000 doses of Celvapan, Baxters adjuvant-free H1N1 vaccine, to be used by top government officials (www.spiegel.de, 19 Oct, "Germans unhappy with alternative swine flu vaccine for politicians").

The controversy seemed to be gaining momentum in the days after news of the interior ministrys purchase, with Frank Ulrich Montgomery, vice president of the German Medical Association, calling for adjuvant-free vaccinations for pregnant women and children. In the German press he accused the government of mismanagement and creating an "appalling information chaos" surrounding H1N1 vaccination.

Recent polls show that only 12% of Germans definitely plan to be vaccinated against H1N1, with 19% saying that they will probably have the vaccine.

A spokeswoman for the German interior ministry rejected accusations that the ministry had ordered a less risky vaccine for top officials, saying that the order was placed "months ago" before the difference between the two vaccines was deemed important.

In the same article, Der Spiegel quoted doctors concerned about the safety of adjuvants. In response to the article, GlaxoSmithKline Germany issued a press release saying that the interior ministrys purchase of a second vaccine was "legitimate" and does not indicate that one vaccine is better than the other.

GlaxoSmithKline defended the safety of the vaccine, noting that the European Medicines Agency, after reviewing clinical studies, had recommended that both vaccines, as well as Focetria from Novartis, be authorised by the European Commission. It added that so far 22 governments had ordered 440 million doses of Pandemrix, and other governments are considering purchases.

Disclosure of the interior ministrys purchase of the H1N1 vaccine came a week after the defence ministry confirmed news reports that Bundeswehr soldiers and their families on foreign deployments or preparing for missions abroad would be vaccinated with Celvapan.

After news of the interior ministry purchase, both the chancellor, Angela Merkel, and the federal health minister, Ulla Schmidt, indicated that they would not take Celvapan. Chancellor Merkels spokesman told reporters that she planned to discuss the H1N1 vaccination with her personal doctor, who is in private practice and would have access only to Pandemrix. If he advises her to take the vaccine, then she will, the spokesman said.

Ms Schmidt was quoted as saying that she will be vaccinated with the same vaccine as "the people," describing Pandemrix as safe and effective.

Wolf-Dieter Ludwig, chairman of the German Medical Associations drug commission, has described the whole swine flu vaccination programme as a scandal and was quoted widely in the German press: "The health authorities have succumbed to a campaign by the pharma companies, which simply want to earn money from a supposed threat."

In an interview with the BMJ, Dr Ludwig confirmed that he had made the statement. He said that he thinks the German government was too compliant to the demands of GlaxoSmithKline for buying 50 million doses, which cost at least 600m (550m; $900m), a price that he says was too high. He also said that the government should not have agreed to carry legal risk in the event of lawsuits by patients experiencing any negative side effects from the vaccine. "I think this is not fair," he said. "The pharma companies should be responsible for the risk."

Dr Ludwig still thinks that Pandemrix has not been adequately tested. However, he also believes that Celvapan has not been sufficiently tested.

Wolfgang Wodarg, a doctor and a member of the Bundestag, is also concerned about the safety of swine flu vaccines. "The clinical trials have not been sufficient for us to vaccinate millions of people," he told the BMJ, adding that governments have created a lot of unnecessary panic. He said that he thinks the World Health Organization "carries a lot of the burden for this."

Cite this as: BMJ 2009;339:b4335
 
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Robin

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that's a much different article

Thanks for clarifying. Concerns about inadequate safety testing of adjuvants in different demographics, issues of cost and liability are much different than the other post!
 

liverock

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Robin

Thanks for the assurance about US vaccines not having squalene. Some people have asked me this question on other forums and I was not aware of this fact.

Dr Charles Lapp, the CFS doctor, gives the following advice to his patients about whether or not to take the H1N1 vaccine.

http://www.drlapp.net/resources.htm

What To Do About The Swine Flu Vaccination?

In June 2009 the World Health Organization declared that the spread of a novel H1N1 Swine Flu had reached pandemic levels. At the time of this writing, the swine flu has become widespread in the southern United States, especially the Southeast. However, the illness prevalence, the number of doctor visits, and the morbidity is still no worse than the usual seasonal influenza. It is expected that the number of cases will increase as school resumes because H1N1 is rapidly spread by coughing and sneezing, hand-to-hand, or hand-to-body contact.



Many patients have been alarmed by reports of the seriousness and infectivity of this new flu, and have asked if vaccination is advisable.

Our usual recommendations on influenza vaccinations are that they have been known to trigger flares of CFS/ME/FM, that many PWCs to do not respond to vaccination anyway, and that viral infections are uncommon in most PWCs due to upregulation of the immune system. Therefore, we would recommend seasonal flu vaccination only if you have tolerated these well in the past and if you are at high risk.

Because the current swine flu is so novel, a new vaccine needs to be produced. This is not expected to be available until late October. Unlike seasonal influenza, H1N1 mostly attacks younger age groups, particularly under age 24. Vaccine availability will be limited, so it will be offered to specific target groups first. These include pregnant women, people who live with or care for children younger than 6 months of age, healthcare and emergency medical services personnel, persons between the ages of 6 months and 24 years old, and people ages of 25 through 64 years of age who are at higher risk for novel H1N1 because of chronic health disorders or compromised immune systems. We do NOT consider the immune system in CFS/ME to be compromised to the point of being high risk unless there is a history of frequent viral infections and/or pneumonia.



Based on information available at this time, H1N1 immunization may not be available to the majority of our patients until late Fall, perhaps well after the swine flu peak. Therefore, we are recommending that our patients

avoid crowds and sick people (especially coughers and sneezers!

wash your hands frequently or use alcohol-based hand cleansers

avoid touching your eyes, nose, or mouth with your bare hands



The symptoms of novel H1N1 flu virus in people include fever, cough, sore throat, and runny nose, body aches, headache, chills and fatigue, possibly diarrhea and vomiting. If you suspect that you have contracted swine flu

immediately contact your primary care office or Hunter-Hopkins for advice and possibly medication

avoid contact with others for at least 24 hours after the fever subsides consider wearing a surgical face mask if others are around you

recognize these warnings signs and seek medical assistance immediately for difficulty breathing or shortness of breath, pain or pressure in the chest or abdomen, sudden dizziness, increased confusion, severe or persistent vomiting, and flu-like symptoms that improve but then return with fever and worse cough

In lieu of swine flu vaccination two antiviral medications can be taken to reduce the symptoms and severity of the illness. These must be started within 48 hours of illness onset, and are not recommended for prevention of the flu. The adult doses of these medications are Tamiflu/oseltamivir (75 mg tablets taken twice daily for 5 days) or Relenza /zanamivir (two inhalations twice daily).

For more information go to the Center for Disease Control website at www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/
 

starryeyes

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"We do NOT consider the immune system in CFS/ME to be compromised to the point of being high risk unless there is a history of frequent viral infections and/or pneumonia."

Well, that's me. I get frequent viral infections, one on top of the other all year round every year now.

Thanks for the info about the vaccines for H1N1.

tee
 
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Robin

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Robin

Thanks for the assurance about US vaccines not having squalene. Some people have asked me this question on other forums and I was not aware of this fact.

Dr Charles Lapp, the CFS doctor, gives the following advice to his patients about whether or not to take the H1N1 vaccine.
No problem! Squalene is derived from shark liver oil, so if you're into supplements and concerned about squalene, you might want to avoid that.

Thanks for the advice from Dr. Lapp. I'd like to know why he thinks PWCs don't respond to vaccines? (and then recommends them to high risk patients?) I'll send him an email! Very interesting, thanks.
 
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H1N1 Vaccine

Hi,

I remember when my sister-in-law, an MS patient, was trying to get some kind of vaccination and she said that they gave it to her more than once but it wasn't working because she made antibodies to everything? She was a nurse/office manager of a doctor's office. I can't remember how she knew this?

I got the H1N1 vaccine this morning in Georgia. My CFS doctor first told me not to get it and then remembered I had asthma and a tendency to asthmatic bronchitis and then told me to get it. My pain specialist did the same thing - first no and then yes. I have not had a problem with asthmatic bronchitis since I got CFS - I am one who has not really been "sick" since I was diagnosed. My immune system appears to be "upticked". I have shortness of breath but I believe it is a symptom of CFS while my non believing allergist calls it asthma. But since I have been hospitalized in the past for asthmatic bronchitis I decided to get the vaccine. Because I did not think I would be able to get it before I went to DC (afraid of catching something on the airplane) I got the regular flu shot and a pneumonia shot. So far nothing has bothered me except my sore left arm!

This morning I took my "handy seat" cane and as I headed toward the back of an enormous line (3 hours maybe) a health worker grabbed me and escorted me inside. My husband and I were in and out in under 30 minutes. So take a cane if you decide to get the shot.

TeaBisquit at ProHealth has been posting about her 2 week battle with the swine flu. It really continues to be an ordeal with her and her lungs have been severely impacted. Her story convinced me to get the shot.

I will update this if I have any reaction to the vaccine.

srmny
 
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Robin

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On Mercola's website today:

Why is Canada Changing Its Flu Vaccine Policy?

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/a...asonal-Flu-Shots-and-Recommend-Vitamin-D.aspx
Because some Canadian researchers have an unpublished study that shows a seasonal flu vaccines might make people more vulnerable to swine flu.

More about it.

A number of influenza and infectious diseases experts know of but are unwilling to speak publicly about the paper. But several were quick to note that British and Australian researchers haven't seen the phenomenon either. The lack of corroboration in other jurisdictions is "a red flag," said one expert, who believes the findings will be shown to be due to a study flaws.

Another flu expert who was willing to speak on the record said they do not make sense to him either.

"I cannot think of a good reason why this is biologically likely, especially since we have sufficient evidence now that ... there is priming in the population by the way the vaccine is working," said Dr. Arnold Monto, of the University of Michigan.

He was referring to the fact that studies of swine flu vaccine show a single dose induces a strong and likely protective response in teens and adults. That suggests humankind's long exposure to seasonal H1N1 viruses has "primed" or awakened our immune systems to recognize the new virus and fight it off.

Dr. Donald Low, chief microbiologist at Toronto's Mount Sinai Hospital, was reserving judgment on the findings. But he said this kind of effect of previous exposure raising the risk of future illness is seen in some diseases, like dengue fever.

"We don't see that in flu," Monto countered.

Low said it is important to get to the bottom of the issue, but in the meantime, delaying the use of seasonal flu vaccine makes sense for logistical reasons. Swine flu activity is on the upswing in the U.S. and in parts of British Columbia, and focusing on speeding delivery of that vaccine makes more sense now, he said.

"If we're going to try to protect people, this is the virus we should be trying to protect them against," Low said, suggesting decisions on whether to try to vaccinate against seasonal flu can be done later in the season.

He admitted the controversy could undermine the public's willingness to be vaccinated against influenza.

"This is obviously difficult for public to be able to digest this," he said. "There's a crying need here for a prospective randomized controlled study."