Gastritis but NO h pylori - what now?

[svetoslav80]

justy, if you list the foods you eat (all of them, including seasonning), maybe I can help you by telling which one to eliminate (if that's the reason for your troubles at all).

 

[Marlène]

Chlamydia pneumonia can give nasty stomach issues as well. It is very much underestimated.

http://www.cpnhelp.org/

On top of that, a widespread Cpn infection can mimic lots of ME-symptoms.

 

[justy]

justy, if you list the foods you eat (all of them, including seasonning), maybe I can help you by telling which one to eliminate (if that's the reason for your troubles at all).

Hi Svet - i eat EVERYTHING except meat.
I did a year on strict anticandida and no gluten at same time - i didnt have the stomach issues before doing that diet - i did it to rid myself of systemic candida and to see if it helped the M.E and my IBS (which is different to what i have now) the diet cured the candida - but did nothing for ibs or M.E. I dont eat oats as they bloat my stomach terribly.

So now i eat whatever i feel like -i have a weird aversion to raw food and salad at the moment and a strong desire ofr cheese and white bread and potatoes. A lot of vegetables make me feel nauseaus if i think about them. Mostly i like dark gree veg like broccoli and green beans. I am fine with a bit of mild chilli at the moment or indian spices but cant stomach tomatoes at all.

Thanks for your interest.
Justy

 

[svetoslav80]

Hi Svet - i eat EVERYTHING except meat.

Well that may be the reason of why your stomach doesn't heal, if it's really gastritis. Haven't you noticed if it gets worse after eating certain foods? In my case I know exactly what I can eat and what I can't eat. If it's not affected by foods, maybe it's not gastritis but something else? Also, is the pain worse before or after eating?

 

[justy]

I get a gnawing hunger pain regularly which makes me need to eat. Then i eat and staright away i feel a bit better, after eating i get a tight constricted feeling in my upper abdomen followed about an hour later by pain. At night i get terrible pain all night in the upper abdomen, also chest pain (but not indegestion) At the moment i cant eat spicy food or tomatoes or fruit - other than that nothing makes it better or worse (food wise)

What i am trying to say is that changing my diet has never made any difference to my stomach or M.E symptoms - apart from not eating acidic or very fatty food at the moment - due to the inflammation. I am currently allowing my feelings of what i want to eat to guide me in my food choices - otherwise i really would be even more miserable.

Justy.

 

[nanonug]

For the record, I have H. pylori negative gastritis (with duodenitis added for good measure), which means that I know very well how one feels with and without food in the stomach.

I get a gnawing hunger pain regularly which makes me need to eat. Then i eat and staright away i feel a bit better, after eating i get a tight constricted feeling in my upper abdomen followed about an hour later by pain. At night i get terrible pain all night in the upper abdomen, also chest pain (but not indegestion)

What you are described is very consistent with gastritis. I reiterate my ranitidine suggestion, especially if indeed your gastritis is of the H. pylori negative kind. Given that you don't know, maybe you could give it a try and see what happens. I take 150mg of ranitidine one hour before each meal, in addition to a daily dose of Nexium.

Given that H. pylori negative gastritis is a symptom consistent with Mast Cell Activation Syndrome, I invite you to visit the ME/CFS is a mast cell disorder (hypothesis) thread and see if you recognize other symptoms there.

 

[justy]

Thanks Nanonug for the suggestions, sorry to hear you are suffering with the same thing - its nasty!
Have had some let up of symptoms with a double dose of Omeprazole, slept well last night and woke up without any pain or nausea which is a big relief - have woken up feeling sick every day for months on end.

I will visit your Mast Cell thread na dhave a read through later.
All the best, Justy.

 

[merylg]

Hi justy,

If you can't take tomato then you will probably do better off capsicum, chillies & eggplant too. I am doing better off all these. Harder to give up potato but that is same family. I can tolerate some potato varieties better than others. Sweet potato seems ok. Tobacco is also from nightshade family & I can't stand the smell of tobacco smoke. Tomatoes give me joint pain & eggplant (Aubergine) gives me joint swelling.

Coffee I had to give up as have true allergy to that...break out in itchy hives on back.
Chocolate (more so solid chocolate) I discovered causes me bouts of severe atrophic gastritis. So I gave that up, but can still have an occasional hot chocolate drink.

Sometimes chemical smells will set off instant atrophic gastritis as I have MCS. Can be from car interior for example, which allergist says is formaldehyde sensitivity. I'm not sure...sometimes I think it is the plastics.

I also have a small hiatus hernia, which is giving me less grief now. So the dietary changes have helped and low dose B2 (Riboflavin) 3.125mg once/day has helped heal my stomach & gut in general. (I am allergic to Nexium & Pariet...they GIVE me stomach pain!) I am subscribing to the theory now that I actually lack enough stomach acid & enzymes. So I'm adding a teaspoonful of organic sauerkraut to meals once or twice a day. I'm also learning how to make raw milk kefir & other fermented foods.

Some supplements (in fact most) will give me atrophic gastritis, within about 1/2 hour of taking them. So consider it may be a supplement causing your problem. (The gastroenterologist has been helpful for diagnosing the problem by gastroscopies & biopsies. Also excluded Coeliac by biopsy. Otherwise the precribed meds were damaging & the rest I had to figure out for myself by elimination, with some help from an Allergist/Immunologist/Physician & his recommended dietitian) It's taken me years to accept that all the nightshades are a problem

PS My first gastroscopy revealed an ulcer, caused by taking aspirin. No H. pylori on biopsy. No evidence of Coeliac on biopsy. Follow-up gastroscopy showed it was healed (after not taking aspirin!). Some years later, another gastroscopy confirmed small hiatus hernia (as seen incidentally on chest CT scan) and patches of atrophic gastritis. No H. pylori on biopsy. (At times I have had short courses of prednisone to treat allergic angioedema. This has also resulted in atrophic gastritis & ulcer symptoms)

 

[Nielk]

justy said: ↑

​

I get a gnawing hunger pain regularly which makes me need to eat. Then i eat and staright away i feel a bit better, after eating i get a tight constricted feeling in my upper abdomen followed about an hour later by pain. At night i get terrible pain all night in the upper abdomen, also chest pain (but not indegestion)​

I had these symptoms when I suffered from an ulcer.

 

[alice]

I think you should definitely get a biopsy done. This way you can know for sure whether you have H pylori or not since blood tests aren't 100%. While having the endoscopy the gastroenterologist can also look for other problems such as cancer and celiac disease. I had one done last year and they took 5 biopsies from different areas and tested for H pylori and Celiac disease. The doctor looked for ulcers and other abnormalities as well.

Another avenue to investigate is Enterococcus infection in the stomach. There is a theory that chronic infection by an enterovirus causes CFS. Dr. Chia in California is a specialist in this field. My doctor was able to obtain my biopsies done last year at a lab here in Canada and sent them to Dr. Chia for look for Enterovirus infection. I don't have the results back yet.

Here are a couple of sites in case you want to look this up.

http://jcp.bmj.com/content/61/1/1.full

http://www.enterovirusfoundation.org/chronicinfections.shtml

Gamboa

Gamboa,

I will be having an colonoscopy and endoscopy next month and will want to have Dr. Chia's biopsy for the Enterococcus test done at that time. Thanks for posting the information. Hopefully the GI doctor will be cooperative and willing to do the extra biopsies required. I have history of gastritis and duodenitis--and Barrett's esophagitis and was negative for h.Pylori at last endoscopy.

I printed out the Test Request Form that has to go to Dr. Chia.with the biopsies. Do I have to make prior arrangements with Dr. Chia before the biopsies are mailed?

Thank you. Hoping you had good results from your test.

Best,
alice

 

[Gamboa]

Gamboa,

I will be having an colonoscopy and endoscopy next month and will want to have Dr. Chia's biopsy for the Enterococcus test done at that time. Thanks for posting the information. Hopefully the GI doctor will be cooperative and willing to do the extra biopsies required. I have history of gastritis and duodenitis--and Barrett's esophagitis and was negative for h.Pylori at last endoscopy.

I printed out the Test Request Form that has to go to Dr. Chia.with the biopsies. Do I have to make prior arrangements with Dr. Chia before the biopsies are mailed?

Thank you. Hoping you had good results from your test.

Best,
alice

Hi Alice,

I'm not sure about how to send biopsies to Dr. Chia. It was done for me by the office staff at my doctors office. I haven't paid yet. They said Dr. Chia will send me an invoice which I haven't received yet. I see Dr. Byron Hyde who is away for the summer so I can't ask him until he is back. I don't have my results back yet.

I didn't have extra biopsies done. My endoscopy was done a year ago before I was seeing Dr. Hyde and before I knew about Dr. Chia. Dr. Hyde called the lab that processed my biopsies and got them sent to him. They are in paraffin wax blocks and are saved for many years by the lab so were available. He then sent them on to Dr. Chia.

Good luck and hope your "scopes" go well,

Gamboa

 

[mermaid]

Hi Justy,
Hope you got on holiday OK and that your stomach didn't let you down too much.
I was diagnosed with gastritis and duodenitis around 10 yrs ago. In my case I did have an endoscopy and they didn't find H Pylori from taking a biopsy. I have since had a blood test again on this last year, and that was negative again.

At the time I had not been diagnosed with ME/CFS and I didn't know what I know now about PPIs, so I happily settled down to taking Omeprazole for 2 yrs, before I decided that I didn't want to spend a lifetime on it. The Omeprazole did in the short term deal with my gastritis but not in the long term.

I then started to research as I know you have, all my foods, and what else I could try. Clearly my gut issues, probably like yours are complex, and still highly sensitive though I have it under some control now. I now use Betaine HCL but just one capsule with each meal though I think if you have gastritis badly that needs to heal first maybe. I am not sure but instructions seem to indicate not to use if you have an ulcer.

Someone mentioned DGL liquorice, which i did find useful.I know I did a lot of research and cabbage water came out highly, but I could never face it! Also the GAPS diet recommend bone broth and I think that is very healing. I know that you like me have tried the kefir without success in the long run.

My foods have had to be severely restricted for both IBS and gastritis reasons.....obviously everyone is different but for me I can now only eat unprocessed meat/fish, fresh veg and fruit, nuts, seeds, raw chocolate, and coconut butter/oil and coconut milk, and not a lot else if I am to have a happy day!

 

[Sherlock]

My father, who did have H pylori, found mastic gum relieved his symptoms. He wouldnt take the abx.

Olive leaf extract might do the trick for him. Also:

Eur J Cancer Prev. 1998 Dec;7(6):449-54.
Effects of high dose vitamin C treatment on Helicobacter pylori infection and total vitamin C concentration in gastric juice.

This study has shown that 4 weeks daily high dose vitamin C treatment in H. pylori infected patients with chronic gastritis resulted in apparent H. pylori eradication in 30% of those treated.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9926292

 

[nanonug]

I was diagnosed with gastritis and duodenitis [...] and they didn't find H Pylori
My foods have had to be severely restricted for both IBS and gastritis reasons...

H. pylori negative gastritis and IBS are compatible with mast cell activation syndrome. More info on this thread:
ME/CFS is a mast cell disorder (hypothesis).

 

[sianrecovery]

Olive leaf extract might do the trick for him. Also:

Eur J Cancer Prev. 1998 Dec;7(6):449-54.
Effects of high dose vitamin C treatment on Helicobacter pylori infection and total vitamin C concentration in gastric juice.

very interesting that, thanks


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9926292

very

 

[justy]

Hi Mermaid - thanks for your post - i'm still on holiday now - the stomach has been very touch and go - i am also now anemic despite taking iron for the past year and so have constipation from the iron - not sure if this is better or worse than the diarrhea from the omeprazole! Now i seem to have picked up a stomach bug (husband has it also) my stomach woes are just one thing after another - its been very hard to eat well while on holiday, France is so hard for vegetarians - too much french bread and sugar!
But i am so grateful to be here - had about a week of good energy and managed a couple of very short swims/floats in the pool and one in the sea. We leave tommorrow for our epic drive home. The ferry crossing was awful and i had the worst sea sickness i have ever experienced! hope its a bit calmer on Sunday.

I know dr M suggests Betaine HCL and i have some at home, but im sure the gastritis needs to heal first - i have expressed my concerns to my GP - not least of all that i dont know how my digestive system can work efficiently with low levels of stomach acid - but she says i must get the inflammation down - but honestly its screwing everything else up. I am planning on getting a tincture from herbalist when i get back and have time and money for a consultation with her - also hoping the GP will finally refer for endoscopy.

Take care, Justy xx

 

[nanonug]

also hoping the GP will finally refer for endoscopy.

This!

 

[justy]

This!

Sorry Nanonug - i dont understand your post. Could you elaborate please?
Justy.

 

[nanonug]

Sorry Nanonug - i dont understand your post. Could you elaborate please?
Justy.

It means the endoscopy is what you really need, prior to anything else. "This" is just a retarded way to vehemently agree with that portion of your post. More info on Urban Dictionary.

 

[Sherlock]

[on olive leaf and/or vit C

Here's one about adding vit C to the usual ABX anti-pylori regimen:

Thus, the researchers stated, “Addition of vitamin C to H. pylori treatment regimen of amoxicillin, metronidazole and bismuth can significantly increase H. pylori eradication rate.”

from something like 50% success to 78% success, who would have guessed that.
http://weeksmd.com/2009/07/h-pylori-and-vitamin-c/

So maybe combining olive leaf and vit C would be a good non-ABX route.