Free Range vs. Caged Meat Production

[Desertstorm]

What a chicken, pig or a cow eats as long as they are not feed antibiotics or steroids (which they are not now, nor have been for many years) makes no difference. Corn, wheat, barley, wild grass/weed seeds all are constituted of the same basic carbs. Modern farming practices feed a mixture of grains and soy bean meal (which provides protein) to pigs and chickens from weaning through butchering, beef is finished on the same with silage for fiber and protein. Wild meat such as pheasants, waterfowl and venison eat lots of corn and and other grains along with grasses, tree buds and leaves. What it boils down to is the fact that carbs are carbs and protein is protein no matter what form it is delivered to animals or us.

Modern meat production is all about maximizing gain per pound of feed. After all feed is the biggest input cost for the farmer. This is accomplished through selective breeding, keeping optimum levels of temperatures and ventilation and careful record keeping along with keeping a strong biosecurity program in place which keeps the animals healthy by excluding pathogens. Also a stressed animal will not gain as well as a "happy" one. Meat critters in large scale farms are pretty "happy", despite our inclination toward anthropomorphism. If they are not the farmer does not make money.

The truth is that modern large scale meat production produces healthier chickens and other critters than "free range" or "organic" which are scams for the most part (ie, a ten dollar chicken). Chickens are chickens.

 

[IThinkImTurningJapanese]

Chickens are chickens.

Try a New Hampshire Red instead of a Cornish Cross, it'll change your mind.

 

[Desertstorm]

They may taste differently or be of greater size, just as a pheasant differs from a quail raised on the same rations but they are still the same protein. The nonsense comes in when people avoid corn fed meat vs barley fed or self foraging. It's all the same stuff.

 

[IThinkImTurningJapanese]

They may taste differently or be of greater size, just as a pheasant differs from a quail raised on the same rations but they are still the same protein. The nonsense comes in when people avoid corn fed meat vs barley fed or self foraging. It's all the same stuff.

Hardly, nature just isn't that simple.

Barn vs. free-range chickens: Differences in their diets determined by stable isotopes

We compared δ13C and δ15N ratios of barn-raised and free-range chickens to determine if differences in their diets were reflected in the stable isotope composition of their tissues. We conducted a 120-day feeding trial with Caipirinha birds fed a corn–soybean based diet, milled-corn diet and free-range diet. Additionally, we analysed the stable isotope composition of barn-raised chickens bought in grocery stores and free-range homegrown chickens. In the feeding trials, the δ13C and δ15N values of the barn-raised corn–soybean-fed Caipirinha chickens did not change with age, and their stable isotope composition reflected the composition of their diet. The δ13C and δ15N values of barn-raised corn-fed and free-range Caipirinha chickens changed with age toward a diet reflecting a predominance of C4 carbon. The main difference between the free-range and the barn-raised chickens was the significantly higher δ15N of the former in relation to the latter, probably due to ingestion of animal protein.

Additionally, protein isn't the only consideration.

Effect of Free-range Rearing on Meat Composition, Physical Properties and Sensory Evaluation in Taiwan Game Hens

Free-range game hens had lower crude fat, higher collagen, crude protein contents and better texture for chewiness.

That fish you are holding appears to be wild rather than farm-raised. If so, the fatty acid content will be considerably different from farm-raised fish, and consequently, healthier for you. There is a tremendous volume of information about this available online, it is a huge business .

I remember reading about a Japanese company working hard, and spending a lot of money, to develop a salmon feed that would more closely approximate the diet of wild salmon. I hope they are successful since I don't catch too many salmon these days.

 

[pamojja]

What a chicken, pig or a cow eats as long as they are not feed antibiotics or steroids (which they are not now, nor have been for many years) makes no difference.

Strange assessment. Because when I talk to conventional farmers they all tell they have to use antibiotics. Also if you google you come across many papers, which talk about antibiotics and hormones used in conventional farming as a matter of fact. For example: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3834504/

 

[IThinkImTurningJapanese]

Because when I talk to conventional farmers they all tell they have to use antibiotics. Also if you google you come across many papers, which talk about antibiotics and hormones used in conventional farming as a matter of fact.

The EU banned the use of antibiotics as Growth Enhancers in 2006. The U.S. did too in 2017.

Of course,

Growth promoters including hormonal substances and antibiotics are used legally and illegally in food producing animals for the growth promotion of livestock animals.

Enforcement is the issue.

 

[pamojja]

Banned as growth enhancers, but for medical reason all calves are given antibiotics precautionary already. Battery cage chickens need antibiotics for medical reasons too.

 

[gumman123]

This doesnt make cage chickens look good

if they are in cages i assume they feed them some synthetic chicken feed vs if they are outside they can eat their natural diet of bugs or whatever it is in the grass. So the outside diet would make the eggs more nutritional. I have been buying free range eggs from the super market but will buy some pastured ones at the farmers market or from a local seller next time i see one.


The Real Difference Between Pasture-Raised, Free-Range And Cage-Free Eggs

https://www.huffingtonpost.com.au/entry/defining-egg-labels_n_57ffaabfe4b05eff55820176

 

[IThinkImTurningJapanese]

Banned as growth enhancers, but for medical reason all calves are given antibiotics precautionary already. Battery cage chickens need antibiotics for medical reasons too.

There is no easy way out.

 

[gumman123]

Oops the above video I posted was barn laid. Here are the batter cage ones https://www.aussieeggs.com/gallery/videos

 

[percyval577]

Not long time ago there was a butcher´s shop in my neighbourhood which sold conventional meat from some local and personal known farmers. They announced it the customers to know. Everytime when buying meat there it was good tasting meat, and I never felt somehow sluggish after having eaten it. I ever stayed confident that the beasts had a live that as long as it lasted was commensurate.

I am sorry, but I really can´t find this in the most of conventional meat: it tastes bad, I feel somehow weak and even bad afterwards, and I pity the animals.


Pictures and movies sometimes let make it seen that animals are suffering instead of living, sometimes and not in every case. There may be many good farms too, which has been captured as well. But often enough it should already be easy to guess that stress from transport and slaughtering will affect the animals and their meat.
The food does, to my knowledge, influence the meat, e.g. the ratio omega-3 to omega-6 fatty acids is influencable (I don´t know how much of effect that has on animals and eaters). Also the possibility to move around might take influence.

I feel the need to say, it´s a shame for humans to treat other living things so badly, and it´s a nonsense to produce so untasty and probably unhealthy meat. It´s not always the case, but I am afraid more often than not. After all, it will be difficult to manage all that.


Thanks to the op. I agree with you, @Desertstorm, that meat is essentially a nice thing, but the normal cheap meat I can buy here in the EU supermarket is rubbish and unfair.

 

[Revel]

for medical reason all calves are given antibiotics precautionary already.

I have been involved in agriculture, primarily the breeding and rearing of cattle on numerous farms around the UK, for over 40 years. Sorry, but this blanket statement quoted above is complete nonsense (or should I say "utter tripe", given the subject matter of this thread).

 

[Desertstorm]

Strange assessment. Because when I talk to conventional farmers they all tell they have to use antibiotics. Also if you google you come across many papers, which talk about antibiotics and hormones used in conventional farming as a matter of fact. For example: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3834504/

This is where modern biosecurity measures come into play. Pork and poultry farmers use "all in all out" stocking and emptying of bird proof buildings rather than adding animals to existing populations. This practice is vital in excluding pathogens thus eliminating the need for antibiotics and greatly reducing input costs to then farmer. In short it is FAR cheaper to maintain a healthy herd vs treating them for illness. This is why free range birds are never as safe or healthy as confined birds/pigs. It is why our food safety network is now far stronger,safer and more reliable than ever. We are now tracing meat from farm to to table, so if there are any bad actors in the chain they are caught.

The study you are citing uses data well over a decade old and refers to beef cattle.

 

[Revel]

This is where modern biosecurity measures come into play. Pork and poultry farmers use "all in all out" stocking and emptying of bird proof buildings rather than adding animals to existing populations. This practice is vital in excluding pathogens thus eliminating the need for antibiotics and greatly reducing input costs to then farmer. In short it is FAR cheaper to maintain a healthy herd vs treating them for illness. This is why free range birds are never as safe or healthy as confined birds/pigs. It is why our food safety network is now far stronger,safer and more reliable than ever. We are now tracing meat from farm to to table, so if there are any bad actors in the chain they are caught.

Whilst I find modern large scale meat production abhorrent for so many reasons, I have to agree with the "nuts and bolts" of this paragraph. Closed herds, attention to detail and high standards of animal husbandry make for healthy livestock.

 

[percyval577]

I have been involved in agriculture, primarily the breeding and rearing of cattle on numerous farms around the UK, for over 40 years. Sorry, but this blanket statement quoted above is complete nonsense (or should I say "utter tripe", given the subject matter of this thread).

Thanks for your insight,

to my little knowledge, when an infection is going to pop up, all animals may get anitibiotics precautionary.
I cannot remember exactly, but on average this would happen at least for one time in short living beasts, wasn´t it?

Antibiotics themselves are not found back in the meat, as far as I know.

Please correct me, if I remember and tell wrongly.

This is where modern biosecurity measures come into play. Pork and poultry farmers use "all in all out" stocking and emptying of bird proof buildings rather than adding animals to existing populations. This practice is vital in excluding pathogens thus eliminating the need for antibiotics and greatly reducing input costs to then farmer. In short it is FAR cheaper to maintain a healthy herd vs treating them for illness. This is why free range birds are never as safe or healthy as confined birds/pigs. It is why our food safety network is now far stronger,safer and more reliable than ever. We are now tracing meat from farm to to table, so if there are any bad actors in the chain they are caught.

I have seen a documentary which confirmed what you are saying. Farmers with beasts outside will get problems.

(Recently biking around I was already missing cattles.)

 

[Rufous McKinney]

In California: it is illegal to give chickens antibiotics.....unless its for individual use to treat a sick animal. And sometime in 2015, a bill was passed restricting antibiotics in: all livestock....some details discussed here:

https://www.mercurynews.com/2015/10...-use-of-bacteria-fighting-drugs-in-livestock/

 

[andyguitar]

Over here in the UK the main debate about caged v free range is about animal welfare. Has been for as long as I can remember.

 

[pamojja]

but for medical reason all calves are given antibiotics precautionary already.

I have been involved in agriculture, primarily the breeding and rearing of cattle on numerous farms around the UK, for over 40 years. Sorry, but this blanket statement quoted above is complete nonsense (or should I say "utter tripe", given the subject matter of this thread).

Well, then I should have added that I only talked to local farmers. Austrian to be precise. Probably not the brightest too. 40 years ago cattle still used to roam the fields and had horns. Nowadays almost all don't.

 

[Revel]

when an infection is going to pop up, all animals may get anitibiotics precautionary.

How would one know if an infection is going to "pop up"? In my experience, only the animal in need of antibiotics would be treated. If the animal was potentially infectious, it would be quarantined from the others until no longer deemed a risk. The trick is to ensure biosecurity measures are in place, as @Desertstorm says, to minimise the risk of disease arising in the first place.

I cannot remember exactly, but on average this would happen at least for one time in short living beasts, wasn´t it?

Not in my experience. Maintenance of good animal husbandry practices throughout, from birth to slaughter is key. If you are having to rely on antibiotics to the extent that all of your animals are in need of such medication at some point in their lives, then you need to take a long hard look at where you're going wrong . . . and fix it.

 

[Revel]

Well, then I should have added that I only talked to local farmers. Austrian to be precise. Probably not the brightest too. 40 years ago cattle still used to roam the fields and had horns. Nowadays almost all don't.

Ah, that makes more sense. Sorry, for my tone but I get so frustrated when assumptions are made about the widespread overuse of antibiotics and other substances within the cattle industry as a whole. It simply isn't the case, here in the UK, at least. Apologies, @pamojja.