Founder of online 'ME/CFS brain retraining' program says his aim is to make a million bucks

[JasonPerth]

spending years in bed without doing anything... idk, i think muscle atrophy will be bad. but for a few weeks might work.
if he did this years and got as good as he was before, i have a hard time believing his story.

im late to this, but most who have seemed to have randomly recovered, speak of atrophy not being much of an issue and muscle restoring quickly. To many ME experts, movement is more harmful, then the benefits it can provide. sad isnt it

 

[kushami]

If only it were illegal to make unproven health claims …

 

[Johnmac]

Some of you may be aware of Miguel Bautista who runs an online brain retraining program for ME/CFS called 'recovery jumpstart'. He allegedly charges people 6500 USD for access to his program. He calls people in the program 'thrivers', reduces ME/CFS to being purely a 'hypersensitive nervous system issue' and encourages people to view crashes (unless they are severe) as just 'adjustment periods'.

I have watched his videos on YouTube and from the beginning did not trust his motivations, I only became more suspicious when I learnt of the program's price-tag.

Well a video has just emerged online in which Miguel talks of wanting to make a million dollars by the end of the year (that would only involve '10 sales a month', he says).

Here is the video

https://www.reddit.com/r/mecfs/comments/15hxeio

Before launching his recovery program, he also was paraded around on various other YouTube channels, being interviewed about his own recovery story.

How can someone take advantage of the profoundly sick in this way? No one has called him out and he needs to be.

PS: Someone also posted a review of the program here which is worth reading:

I know a lot of people who've cured CFS via brain retraining and/or other psychological approaches, so I gave the free version of his method a shot.

It was very superficial & practically useless. The guy has no real understanding of his own subject.

 

[hapl808]

I know a lot of people who've cured CFS via brain retraining and/or other psychological approaches, so I gave the free version of his method a shot.

I don't know anyone IRL with persistent MECFS who cured it with brain retraining or any psychological approach, but I do think mind-body stuff helps some people with chronic pain issues. MECFS is different. Maybe it's helpful for people suffering from fatigue - not really sure. But that's really not the same thing.

But there's no understanding of the subject IMO, because it's all based on pseudoscience. None of it is properly validated, and the studies are a joke. They only promise that brain retraining helps for diseases with no biomarkers - not a single biomarker driven disease is included.

In addition, I tried it (Gupta) and it did almost nothing for me. I found repeating words somewhat pleasant (like a mantra), but beyond that - zero effect on any of my symptoms. And the hours of videos they make you watch about recovery stories (which feels like brainwashing) have a bunch of terrified looking people with no energy in their voice who look like they're suffering from serious anxiety issues. They couldn't even find people for the videos that looked healthy?

Not a huge fan of brain retraining, in case I wasn't clear.

 

[Viala]

Some of these cases could be regular fatigue as a result of trauma or stress. If brain retraining helps them to reach the inner peace and lessen the amount of emotional triggers, that upregulates GABA and downregulates glutamate excitotoxicity, then it may work and reduce that fatigue and or pain. There are free methods that are quite effective and well known, which could be tried first.

 

[Johnmac]

I don't know anyone IRL with persistent MECFS who cured it with brain retraining or any psychological approach, but I do think mind-body stuff helps some people with chronic pain issues. MECFS is different. Maybe it's helpful for people suffering from fatigue - not really sure. But that's really not the same thing.

But there's no understanding of the subject IMO, because it's all based on pseudoscience. None of it is properly validated, and the studies are a joke. They only promise that brain retraining helps for diseases with no biomarkers - not a single biomarker driven disease is included.

In addition, I tried it (Gupta) and it did almost nothing for me. I found repeating words somewhat pleasant (like a mantra), but beyond that - zero effect on any of my symptoms. And the hours of videos they make you watch about recovery stories (which feels like brainwashing) have a bunch of terrified looking people with no energy in their voice who look like they're suffering from serious anxiety issues. They couldn't even find people for the videos that looked healthy?

Not a huge fan of brain retraining, in case I wasn't clear.

I'm pretty sure that the hundreds of people who came back from extreme CFS illness to cure are not all lying, confabulating, thinking wishfully, et al. Psychoneuroimmunology & all that.

 

[linusbert]

I'm pretty sure that the hundreds of people who came back from extreme CFS illness to cure are not all lying,

of hundreds extreme cfs sick people cured, i'd like to read more about those

 

[hapl808]

I'm pretty sure that the hundreds of people who came back from extreme CFS illness to cure are not all lying, confabulating, thinking wishfully, et al. Psychoneuroimmunology & all that.

I notice that you only use CFS and never ME or MECFS? Is there a reason for that?

Some of these cases could be regular fatigue as a result of trauma or stress.

This is my guess - and also makes me wonder if they're thinking of post viral fatigue or other forms of fatigue and not MECFS since they only write CFS.

Stress and burnout can be completely debilitating. I think brain retraining could be a great tool for dealing with mental issues, but not physical ones. Millions of people suffer stress-related issues, so I wouldn't be surprised to find hundreds who come back from something debilitating and stress related. This is why doctors immediately go to stress and anxiety, because it is a major issue. Just not for some of us. I did not lead a particularly stressful life - I had an incredibly enjoyable job, traveled extensively and with a lot of freedom, and was (back then) relatively financially comfortable.

I have yet to see a board certified psychoneuroimmunologist, but I don't doubt that extreme stress can worsen many physical conditions, including cancer. Still, I find it interesting that I've never seen a brain retraining course claim it can help with cancer.

An area where I think we'll have to agree to disagree. I'm not sure why you'd think hundreds of people (mostly who were somewhat brainwashed to tell no one they were using the program, had to watch hours of videos about recovery, etc) could somehow heal an illness with 'brain retraining', but those same people could never be 'thinking wishfully' about their recovery or the actual parameters of their illness.

Last, I didn't just read about it - I used it. I followed their cult-ish instructions and told no one I was using it. I watched all the required videos, performed all the mantras, tried to 'believe' in it (even though that was specifically not a requirement), etc. Since I didn't get better, I assume the fault lies in me - I didn't have enough faith in the Lord Gupta and that's why I didn't get better?

I greatly dislike these (incredibly expensive) predators that blame the victim if they don't improve.

 

[cfs since 1998]

Brain retraining will not cause my immune system to finally decide to make antibodies to Epstein-Barr Nuclear Antigen!

I'd like just one of these brain retraining fans to read Osler's Web and see if they still think it will do anything.

 

[Viala]

Stress and burnout can be completely debilitating. I think brain retraining could be a great tool for dealing with mental issues, but not physical ones. Millions of people suffer stress-related issues, so I wouldn't be surprised to find hundreds who come back from something debilitating and stress related.

Also even when it's stress related it's also physical since stress causes nutritional deficiencies and that can perpetuate trauma. Psychological disregulation naturally breeds more stress and it's a vicious circle. People who can work on emotional issues early on have more chances to fix everything without supplemental or pharmacological help. I'd still go for biochemical route anyways and then address the rest.

When it started for me I was in a really good place and happy in my life, same as you, so psychological causes here do not make sense. I think I know now what things triggered my ME back then and it was not stress related, all physical causes. Some things that I've tracked down started when I was a kid, also physical.

Their narrative is faulty, they say we can placebo ourselves out of this disease and at the same time they claim that we got sick because of the stress that we never had when it started. So which is it?

 

[Viala]

Brain retraining will not cause my immune system to finally decide to make antibodies to Epstein-Barr Nuclear Antigen!

It's basically the same thing we had with catholicism, people expecting that prayer will heal them, never reaching out to get help, hoping that god will save them. Today we have new age approach and prayer has been replaced with positive thinking and mental aikido. As much as I'm for the mind over matter thing, it's not that easy.

 

[hapl808]

people expecting that prayer will heal them, never reaching out to get help, hoping that god will save them. Today we have new age approach and prayer has been replaced with positive thinking and mental aikido

It really is exactly the same thing.

Yes, you have an illness that medicine has wrestled with and studied (albeit less than it should have), and it has made little progress.

But here is a Doctor of Philosophy with no formal medical training who wrote a pseudoscientific treatise on how the brain works, and they will cure you if you just have faith and $600. Luckily subscription models have allowed them a tithe setup, which is pretty brilliant (I think Gupta is now $500 per year, because I guess when you're 'cured' you still need to send them money).

Anyone (lacking morals) can write anything. I could sell a program that promised to cure Parkinson's because we know Parkinson's relates to the dopamine system, and my $599 program has an 11-part program to detox and reset our dopamine receptors, and then a monthly program to keep your D1 receptors and D2 receptors in balance (just $39 per month if you act now).

Now of course I just made all that up, but that's exactly how these lymbic brain retraining courses sound - it's vaguely plausible pseudoscience, which anyone can make up. The trick is you don't sell it for Parkinson's because that would be breaking some laws, but only for diseases that are controversial or lack good biomarkers. Voila - instant financial success, preying on the vulnerable.

Sadly, desperate people will read this and still go try it…because they, like me, are desperate. I've tried many things I would never have considered if I weren't.

 

[JasonPerth]

Phil Murray (on youtube) has a recovery story about extreme rest and pacing where he spent months,years in bed and recovered. Your correct though, we all natrually go back to work and sport to test ourselves and realise something is Fcked Up the moment we go over our new small limit we have wherever that baseline sits.
Its the only story of its kind im aware of and one of the only legit ME recovery videos that a brain retraining advocate shows as an interview suprisingly. I believe he recently relapsed.
He goes all out and turns off all devices and stays in bed and does nothing until he is better. So its very strange. Its like a complete rest theory. My personal opinion in that he is extremely lucky his body is allowing him to get better somehow

i must add, i think i remember asking him or seeing him say “i dont know if my ME was true ME” because nobody else with pacing has just gotten better to the point they can climb mountains again (besides those who claim recovery from brain retraining) which i believe is more likely misdiagnoses.

 

[Viala]

But here is a Doctor of Philosophy with no formal medical training who wrote a pseudoscientific treatise on how the brain works, and they will cure you if you just have faith and $600. Luckily subscription models have allowed them a tithe setup, which is pretty brilliant (I think Gupta is now $500 per year, because I guess when you're 'cured' you still need to send them money).

Haha that's worse than I thought. Turn your dopamine on for only $39 per month. OR ELSE. You're cured but you can regress so you better continue to pay. I can see that more companies implement such toxic approach. It's like with paid subscriptions to have heated car seats or with rage baiting online to get more traction. Health advice is now a big trend so we probably will see more stuff like this.

I get that people work on things for years, they finally discover something and they want to benefit from their work, it's fine, it's even great because who knows what else they will discover in the future having enough money and being able to focus on their goal, but their methods actually have to be working.

Eh I wish schools could teach how manipulation works, what is going on now in the world is wild and not only in the health department. So many people fall for it. And conventional medicine doesn't go far from it with their forever subscriptions to expensive pharmaceuticals. A patient cured is a customer lost, it's a toxic business model build on suffering and addiction.

Whether it's a guy in the sky, a multilevel marketing scheme, toxic relationship advice or new age stuff, it's all the same. The thing is spirituality and self-growth in itself can be amazing, I've seen it, I know it, it's just oftentimes used the wrong way, too much disinformation or incomplete information and in the end these things do not work. That's why I prefer to focus on nutrition, it's the basis of everything and as upstream as possible.

 

[southwestforests]

Eh I wish schools could teach how manipulation works,

But then the schools would not work any more.

 

[Viala]

But then the schools would not work any more.

I know, there's nothing like a sheep farm.