Fixing Leaky Gut (Round 2)

[JAGuy]

It's good to pay attention to changes in sensations in the body, but to make a giant leap and say those sensations you feel are due to increased populations of probiotic bacteria is another thing.

You might speculate that drinking milk and dairy products increases your gut bacteria, and you might speculate that when you switched to inulin, some of these bacteria died; but you don't really know this with any certainly. Of course, if you had a stool analysis done before and after drinking milk, and this showed a large increase in gut bacteria, then this would be a fact.





If it is the butyric acid from butter than is making these improvements, then you might be a good candidate for Clostridium butyricum, which is a butyric acid-producing bacterium.

How about the changes in my stool in terms of easier passage and appearance?

Yup, I have to make speculations because I am not paying for any lab work until I run out of options.

I am sure everyone is well aware that some of these lab tests are very expensive and not covered by insurance.

About my approach, again I have spent a lot of money and made a lot of speculation, but I have made tremendous progress after trying to treat a 5-year illness.

Can some of you guys say this considering some of you have been dealing with CFS/ME for a much longer time?

I learned a lot about how to maintain the body through trial and error. With this information, I will be able to age gracefully and help my loved ones make it through or ease similar illnesses.

 

[JAGuy]

I would if another unappreciated value of our protective intestinal coating is pH buffering. Anyone have an opinion about this?

 

[ScottTriGuy]

If it is the butyric acid from butter than is making these improvements, then you might be a good candidate for Clostridium butyricum, which is a butyric acid-producing bacterium.

Thanks very much @Hip , will do.

After perusing other leaky gut threads I'm also going to try NAG and betaine HCL and bovine colostrum.

 

[ScottTriGuy]

Could you precise how much butter you added to your daily diet and for how long until you saw improvement in PEM ?

I would say I typically use about the size of my middle finger, maybe a bit more. I have it in the morning with onion and mushroom and eggs and turmeric.

The day I started butter (and eggs etc) I also started avocado smoothie daily and cut way back on sugar and carbs - so I kind of think it wasn't just the butter, but also reducing sugar and carbs - regardless, I felt better that same day.

 

[Hip]

How about the changes in my stool in terms of easier passage and appearance?

That's fine to state as a fact, if you observed it. From a scientific perspective, if you have observed something (such as changes of stool), or had something measured in a blood test (such as a test for a virus), etc, then state it as a fact. A fact is something that can be clearly seen or measured.

But if you are speculating or hypothesizing about something, then it is good form to make that clear. For example, if you are speculating, you can say: "I think drinking milk may be increasing my gut population of friendly bacteria" or "I have a theory / idea that drinking milk is increasing my friendly bacteria".

To be scientific, it is always important to make a distinction between what is an observed or measured fact, and what is speculation. It is just an issue of using the right language.


What you are doing with lots of experimentation and self observation of results is the way to go with ME/CFS. That's how many have made some progress in this disease, and your approach is definitely to be encouraged.



@ScottTriGuy
Could your improvements also potentially come from the raltegravir you started on recently? I know you said you already had improvements in your sleep from this.

 

[MeSci]

How about the changes in my stool in terms of easier passage and appearance?

Yup, I have to make speculations because I am not paying for any lab work until I run out of options.

I am sure everyone is well aware that some of these lab tests are very expensive and not covered by insurance.

About my approach, again I have spent a lot of money and made a lot of speculation, but I have made tremendous progress after trying to treat a 5-year illness.

Can some of you guys say this considering some of you have been dealing with CFS/ME for a much longer time?

I learned a lot about how to maintain the body through trial and error. With this information, I will be able to age gracefully and help my loved ones make it through or ease similar illnesses.

Many of us have learned a lot through trial and error, as you will see from other threads in this forum.

When I observe an improvement, I tend to assume that I am doing something right. I may do some more trial and error to try to get a better idea of what might be bringing about the improvement, and what exactly might be happening.

As @Hip says, unless I am able to do tests which provide clear results, or have these done by a laboratory, that is all I can say for (fairly) sure.

Many tests are not particularly reliable, so even then we can't be 100% sure.

Science is about probability, which can be frustrating, but we have to live with that!

 

[ScottTriGuy]

@ScottTriGuy
Could your improvements also potentially come from the raltegravir you started on recently? I know you said you already had improvements in your sleep from this.

I suppose potentially is could also be the raltegravir, but the positive effects of the diet change were the same day, so I don't 'feel' it has been the raltegravir (in fact, twice this week I've slept poorly) - but I'm still holding out hope.

When I think back to my diet, there have been a couple of clear indications, for example: I had a couple of very rough days after Halloween (one for you, one for me) - conversely, recently I felt pretty good on vacation where I had eggs with butter most mornings.

 

[ScottTriGuy]

@Hip

Just got back from my local health store - those folks never heard of clostridium butyricum which kind of surprised me as they seem quite knowledgeable - guess I'll order it online.

 

[Hip]

@ScottTriGuy
It is hard to find Clostridium butyricum, I think it only comes from Japan. Miyarisan is the brand name to search for. You can find it one eBay.

 

[MeSci]

After reading the preceding statement, you may have already guessed why... Bifido and Lacto are lactic acid bacteria, which is why they prefer dairy-based sugar.

Thank you for drawing my attention to the fact that Bifidobacteria produce lactic acid. As I am trying to reduce lactic acid production, this is useful to know, and I didn't.

I'm not sure whether there is a relationship between lactose and lactic acid as you suggest though. Can you provide a link to a reputable site that states this?

 

[Wayne]

I just added butter to my diet (and cut way, way down on sugar and carbs) last week and almost cannot believe how much better I've been doing.

Hi @ScottTriGuy

Congratulations on your improvements from eating butter (butyrate). I discovered this past year that eating butter at night an hour or two before bedtime consistently (and significantly) improved my sleep. I attributed it primarily to the butyrate as well. My favorite "bedtime snack" is a small portion of yam with a couple pats of butter.

 

[ScottTriGuy]

Thanks @Wayne - I will give that a try.

 

[bertiedog]

I would say I typically use about the size of my middle finger, maybe a bit more. I have it in the morning with onion and mushroom and eggs and turmeric.

The day I started butter (and eggs etc) I also started avocado smoothie daily and cut way back on sugar and carbs - so I kind of think it wasn't just the butter, but also reducing sugar and carbs - regardless, I felt better that same day.

I tried my first bit of avocado the other day (I am nearly 68), have to say I hated the taste of it and couldn't eat more than a couple of mouthfuls. Never fancied eating one previously and I won't be eating another as it tasted foul to me. Will have to stick to eggs, cheese and nuts plus a few low carb vegetables in the mornings! Still find that I need a tiny amount of carb like half a no sugar oatcake in the mornings but that is it for the rest of the day.

Pam

 

[Wayne]

I won't be eating another as it tasted foul to me

Hi @bertiedog,

Sorry to hear about your avacado experience. Thought I'd briefly mention that avacadoes are one of my favorite foods, and have been for many years. I love them--when they are at the right stage of ripening (never brown colored), and have not begun to change taste and texture for over- or poor ripening, which can easily happen.

Could you have eaten one that wasn't properly ripened? Overly soft, and/or brown coloring of the pulp can result in a pretty awful tasting (and smell) experience, so I can certain empathize with your experience if that was the case.

Best, Wayne

 

[bertiedog]

Sorry to hear about your avacado experience. Thought I'd briefly mention that avacadoes are one of my favorite foods, and have been for many years. I love them--when they are at the right stage of ripening (never brown colored), and have not begun to change taste and texture for over- or poor ripening, which can easily happen.

Hi @Wayne The skin was quite soft on the outside and inside but it wasn't brown at all but a soft squidgy green. (Makes me feel ill remembering it I hated it that much)! I find it weird that I have never ever fancied eating one previously it just didn't appeal but as I was looking for something other than any grain for breakfast I thought I would give it a try.

I guess our particular tastes are very individual.

Pam

 

[MeSci]

Hi @Wayne The skin was quite soft on the outside and inside but it wasn't brown at all but a soft squidgy green. (Makes me feel ill remembering it I hated it that much)! I find it weird that I have never ever fancied eating one previously it just didn't appeal but as I was looking for something other than any grain for breakfast I thought I would give it a try.

I guess our particular tastes are very individual.

Pam

Maybe you could have it with something that disguises the taste and texture?

I was given some Kiwi fruit, and didn't like it much, so put the last few bits in a strong-tasting sauce.

 

[ScottTriGuy]

Maybe you could have it with something that disguises the taste and texture?

I was given some Kiwi fruit, and didn't like it much, so put the last few bits in a strong-tasting sauce.

Smoothies!!

I put kale / spinach / whatever greens + banana + blueberries + scoop protein powder + splash dark choc almond milk + avocado + water = yummy.

 

[Wayne]

(Makes me feel ill remembering it I hated it that much)!

Hi Pam,

Sorry about that!