Fish oil causing anxiety?

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

Do you know believe that it might have been the capsules or do you believe that theanine itself was causing anxiety.

It was a host of things, including the theanine, which was a terrible let down because I really had high hopes for it. I then tried decaf green tea, and that was actually worse. I had to cut so much out of my diet that I was living on 3or 4 things for quite a while as I winnowed down the worst offenders, and then slowly added stuff back in.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

I read recently that lithium can reduce glutamate caused excitotoxicity. I'm just beginnning to experiment with that.

@Wayne
Please, please let me know how that goes for you, and what dosages you're using. I considered lithium orotate, but I was so spooked by the vast number of things I was reacting to that I couldn't screw up my courage to add in anything new and untried.

Hope it works for you, not just because I'm interested in it, but because I just hope it works for you.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

So one thing to do is start with a minute dose then work your way up to a level that you can tolerate. I think we are so determined to get better that we take a full strength supplement whereas we should be halving the dose or less.

@Goldfishbowl
Most of us in these fora have learned the rule of "Low and slow", generally by the penalties imposed on us thru using any other method. But it's a good reminder !!!

 

[bjl218]

The problem is that sometimes the reaction can be very delayed making it difficult to figure out what caused a given reaction. I know I'm preaching to the choir...

I got hit with another few hours of anxiety today. So it's clearly not the fish oil. Or not just the fish oil...

@Goldfishbowl
Most of us in these fora have learned the rule of "Low and slow", generally by the penalties imposed on us thru using any other method. But it's a good reminder !!!

 

[PatJ]

I read recently that lithium can reduce glutamate caused excitotoxicity. I'm just beginnning to experiment with that.

MethylB12 is supposedly neuroprotective against glutamate toxicity but I don't have a reference.

This quote from Mary here on PR may be useful:

These things help mop up excess glutamate in the brain: vitamin C (I take 2000 mg with each meal plus more at night - it's a high dose but I seem to need it); calcium pyruvate and resveratrol also help mop up excess glutamate. I take these at night before bed and in the middle of the night.

This article about excess glutamate (including lists of symptoms) has some other suggestions for reducing excess glutamate.

SUGGESTIONS TO SAFELY DECREASE A HIGH GLUTAMATE LEVEL WITHOUT AFFECTING COGNITION
* Phenibut: Supplement with Phenibut; it's an antianxiety agent that activates the GABA-system, this leads to a subtle opposition of glutamate-transmission in the nervous system. I recommend Ceretropic-brand. It also improves memory.
* Rhodiola Rosea: Supplement with a particular rhodiola Rosea extract (Golden Root), it helps protect brain cells from excessive glutamate activity, it also improves endurance, strength, oxygen utilization and helps the body with coping to stress.
* Finally, eat more fruits and in general, Vitamin A & C containing foods (especially carrots, and sulfur containing foods like cabbage and onions, onions and garlic help the best to reduce excitotoxicity & Glutamate.)

 

[PatJ]

I just found more glutamate info in my health file.

LDN is a glutamate inhibitor.

Hip's thread about five ways to reduce the wired-but-tired feeling is useful:

Summary: The wired but tired state is probably due to excess glutamate; can lead to insomnia, irritability, and anger. Glutamate stimulates neurons, too much causes over-excitation (Dr. Cheney says this can lead to neuron death).

To calm the brain try one or more of these:

NAG - 700mg

Turmeric - 1000mg

Flax oil - 15ml

Magnesium - transdermal recommended

Kava root (only root, water extracted) - 300mg 1-2x/day increases GABA receptor sensitivity over time (a good thing); "does not appear to be subject to tolerance and withdrawal."

NAC - 600mg 3x/day slow release - glutamate inhibitor

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

The problem is that sometimes the reaction can be very delayed making it difficult to figure out what caused a given reaction. I know I'm preaching to the choir...

@bjl218
It does make it really tough, and it requires endless, and usually unpleasant, experiments to double and triple test theories about causative factors, ameliorating options. Tiresome and painful, bu worthwhile if you can pinpoint even a few things you've hypothesized and find ways to deal with them successfully.

And to make it even better, nothing works for everybody, so what you read about that helps X and Y could very well make you worse, or at the least, do absolutely nothing.

We have to become our own petrie dishes, and bravely forge into the abyss. And hope that we can help a few others along the way.

 

[Wayne]

It does make it really tough, and it requires endless, and usually unpleasant, experiments to double and triple test theories about causative factors, ameliorating options.

And here's the kicker: We can go through all this work, and "sometimes" be able to figure some things out. BUT, will those results be the same a year from now, or even months from now? As time marches on, so does change. And it seems all we can do is scramble the best we can to keep up with the changes going on in our bodies.

Because of all this, I've kinda developed the philosophy of being content to learning how to mangage or control problems, not to necessarily solve them. However, every now and then, I do feel I've solved one. And I'm not bashful about patting myself on the back when I do!

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

I've kinda developed the philosophy of being content to learning how to mangage or control problems, not to necessarily solve them

@Wayne
Hallelujah and absolutely !!! I gave up on curing this about the 4th or 5th time whatever fix I'd found either turned on me or fizzled out like birthday cake candles in the rain.

That's when I started concentrating on isolating the symptomatic responses that were bothering me the most or wrecking what little life I have left and researching and reading on every good day til I found something that worked.

Some of them still do, others have fallen by the wayside, no matter how well they work for others.

This is a strangely individualistic disease, another handicap. We can scour the internet and all the truly remarkable threads on this site, but only some of it will work for us, and only some of the time, except when we get lucky. And we all know what goes into creating 'lucky' ....

However, every now and then, I do feel I've solved one. And I'm not bashful about patting myself on the back when I do!

Those are the exceptions that can fuel us for a long, long time. It's a real, hard-won achievement, and you have every reason to pat yourself on the back. I'm not shy about it either. We paid for those kudos with endless, often very painful and depressing, sometimes temporarily incapacitating, self-experimenting.

So pat away, @Wayne. You've effing well earned it.

We all have. We're still here, and we're still fighting against all the odds. (We need an applause emoji, or a standing ovation emoji)

 

[bjl218]

Status update. I stopped the fish oil a while back and haven't had a panic attack since. However, I've had some other "interesting" experiences. Maybe I should start a separate thread for this, but these new reactions may be related in some way.

I had started the high dose fish oil after reading up on the Nemechek protocol in which high-dose fish oil is used to address inflammation. The protocol also treats suspected SIBO using Rifaximin. So I asked my functional medicine doc to prescribe a course of Rifaximin to see what effect it would have and as an empirical test for SIBO. At the same time, we decided to address my high blood pressure and I started on Losartan. While I don't like pharmaceuticals, I wanted to treat my high BP because it would be a shame if I had a stroke while trying to figure out the root cause(s) behind all this. I liked the idea of Losartan because it also has anti-inflammatory properties.

Last week I started experiencing joint and muscle pain, insomnia, and headaches. For a moment, I was wondering whether I had been bitten by a Lyme tick or something and then I realized that these are all possible side-effects of Losartan. I stopped both the Rifaximin and Losartan a few days ago and these symptoms have mostly resolved. I plan to restart only the Rifaximin in a few days in order to test whether my symptoms could have been a herx due to some SIBO die-off.

Anyway, if it was the Losartan, then I wonder whether my symptoms were due to increased nitric oxide. Both Losartan and fish oil increase NO. If it's due to increased NO I wonder if this sensitivity is some sort of healing crisis. Increasing NO is supposed to be a good thing. And most studies I've found indicate that NO should help to decrease inflammation, boost the immune system, and decrease associated symptoms such as anxiety.

I suppose an easy experiment would be to take some L-arginine or Viagra to see what happens. Both of these increase NO levels.

There is also this article from Selfhacked on L-arginine which mentions that:

Too Much L-Arginine May Encourage An Autoimmune Response
Nitric Oxide can react with Hydrogen Peroxide in the body to form free radicals [R].
These free radicals can cause oxidative damage and cell death.
Because of this, too much Nitric Oxide in the body can lead to an increased risk of an autoimmune response [R].
High levels of L-Arginine could encourage Nitric Oxide buildup, causing this response to occur.

 

[gbells]

Hi all,

Color me skeptical. The two problems with fish oil are rancidity and high mercury. I test for rancidity by tasting it before I swallow. The brand labeling tells you whether it has been distilled to remove mercury. I've never heard of anxiety from fish oil.

However, caffeine and similar drugs do cause anxiety. So consider chocolate, caffeine, "decaf" coffee, choc ice cream, wt loss pills, pain relievers, energy water, energy drinks, breath freshener, sumseeds sunflower seeds, morning sparc instant oatmeal and perky jerky.

Lactic acid from strenuous wt lifting also causes anxiety.

 

[Insomniac]

I am too tired to read the thread and know nothing about Biochemistry. I just wanted to say that supplemental fish oils always give me stomach aches from hell and worsen most of my other symptoms.

I once got off my meat diet and tried a diet that got it's protein from fish and pulses, felt 10 times worse. I couldn't survive the week.

I can only tolerate fish once or twice a week maximum.
There are plenty of people who never eat fish.

Flaxseed oil is much better for me. Does it serve the same purpose in nutrition? I suspect it does.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

I just wanted to say that supplemental fish oils always give me stomach aches from hell and worsen most of my other symptoms.

@redrachel76
Me too. I never got the stomach aches, as well as I recall, but it considerably worsened all my other symptoms. Am waiting til I'm a little braver before I try adding Nordic Naturals liquid fish oil back into my diet.

Flaxseed oil is much better for me. Does it serve the same purpose in nutrition? I suspect it does.

I believe that for the most part, it does. Unfortunatly, I had a bad reaction to flax seeds as well, and haven't tried them since gettng better.

I'm glad you found something that works for you !!!!

 

[xrayspex]

Color me skeptical. The two problems with fish oil are rancidity and high mercury. I test for rancidity by tasting it before I swallow. The brand labeling tells you whether it has been distilled to remove mercury. I've never heard of anxiety from fish oil.

However, caffeine and similar drugs do cause anxiety. So consider chocolate, caffeine, "decaf" coffee, choc ice cream, wt loss pills, pain relievers, energy water, energy drinks, breath freshener, sumseeds sunflower seeds, morning sparc instant oatmeal and perky jerky.

Lactic acid from strenuous wt lifting also causes anxiety.

what brand of fish oil do you find acceptable?

 

[bjl218]

Strangely enough, 1 small caffeinated coffee actually tends to be calming for me. I don't eat or take any of the other things you mentioned.