First Direct Evidence of Neuroinflammation - 'Encephalitis' - in ME/CFS

I had and still have seizures, massive, massive dissociation, psychosis, memory and cognitive problems, occasional halleucinations and intense headaches. I've had white blood cells show up in my spinal fluid, slowing on my EEG and hypoperfusion on my SPECT. I also have fatigue, PEM and all of the physical symptoms ME people do. However I have yet to find one doctor (functional medicine or neurologist) who has any clue what is going on with me. I have tried like hell to get checked out for all types of autoimmune encephalitis but I can't find a doctor willing to try
 
This is what Drugs.com says about ketamine.

And what, pray tell, does drugs.com say about aspirin, a drug that kills hundreds of people a year?
Ketamine has been around for decades and is well proven to be safe when properly administered. It could help this poor woman immediately.
I hope no one here is relying on drugs.com for more than incidental information.

Ketamine is not in the same class as aspirin. It's safe in the same way that shoulder-fired missiles are safe: some conditions apply ;-)
 
Have any of you read the book "Brain on Fire" by Susanna Cahalan? It describes her journey with a rare autoimmune disease resulting in inflammation in the brain called anti-nmda receptor autoimmune encephalitis. Top NY neurologists did not believe that she was sick. Her brain MRI, EGG and bloodwork were all normal. (sounds familiar?) Even a brain biopsy came back normal. They thought that she was just psychotic and should be institutionalized.

She was lucky that she finally met a doctor who actually "listened" and found antibodies in her cerebrofluid. he started treating her with immunotheraphy - Rituximab and steroids which eventually nursed her back to health.

Although this seems to be an acute disease, ME has a lot of similarities and it is evident that inflamation in the brain whether chronic or acute is not easily diagnosed.
I was just going to post about this! Thanks, Nielk.
 
Thanks. They are actually finishing trials with a nasal spray cousin-kin-drug to ketamine as we speak, for MDD. My doctor said we'll most certainly try it when it comes out. I would do anything for relief at this point and the cousin-drug (name escapes me) doesn't have the side effects.......
Did you mean the side effects on kidneys? If so, did you mean methoxetamine (mxe)?
 
I was mulling over this again last night and wonder whether this 'multiple paths to the same destination' could indeed be very plausible. Think about the studies from the last few years certain ones such as the initial (and still ongoing) work with rituximab could point to the autoimmune path which we've already discussed, this would explain why some people seem to get a major and long lasting result from this drug (some of the initial trial patients are still healthy, as is Maria Gjerpe who campaigned for further work with the drug) while other got little to no help from it or even suffered more after the treatment. I wonder whether it may be a case of 'breaking the cycle' so to speak wherein B-cells may be producing the antibodies which stimulate the immune cells of the brain hence triggering symptoms.

Similarly I've heard many people sing the praises of certain antivirals in helping their recovery yet others get no help from them although admittedly without there being any specific pathogen that we know of, antivirals are never going to show the same effectiveness when compared to something such as rituximab which is somewhat more specifically targeted...

Obviously I'm making far too many assumptions here but it's an interesting line of thought and could explain why some treatments seem to have such an all or nothing effect.
I'm pretty sure that this is a more than plausible scenario and could also explain the mixed results/failure to date to identify a biomarker.

We have a syndrome defined solely on the basis of a collection of non-specific symptoms and now what appears to be evidence of neuroinflammation of a type seen in a wide range of other conditions (with presumably a variety of etiologies - autoimmune, trauma, metabolic, stress, pathogen related, and even aging).

Its not too unlikely that with a slightly different mix of symptoms or demographic (e.g. an older age group) that each of us could have received a different diagnosis.
 
And what, pray tell, does drugs.com say about aspirin, a drug that kills hundreds of people a year?
Ketamine has been around for decades and is well proven to be safe when properly administered. It could help this poor woman immediately.

Not sure why you mention aspirin. You were talking about ketamine, and I thought it fair to post some info on it so that people can make informed decisions.
 
Given the high cost of these PET scans and possible associated methodological issues that might result in progress in replicating and expanding these findings being slower than we would like, I've been interested in finding other 'markers' of neuroinflammation that may provide less direct but converging evidence.

I've found a few but am grateful for being alerted to another potential marker in peripheral blood (PBMC's).

Microglial activation is now widely believed to underpin neuropathic pain syndromes (often widespread 'central' pain sensitisation which is unrelated or out of proportion to an initial peripheral injury). Various peripheral messengers (associated with damage, pathogens or cellular/metabolic stress) activate CNS microglia via toll like receptors (TLR's) resulting in the release of pro-inflammatory cytokines such as IL1-b. It appears that peripheral TLRs act similarly to those in the brain with the potential that activated brain TLR's may be reflected by activated TLR's in the periphery.

This paper seems to confirm this with peripheral IL1-b levels elevated in chronic pain patients in response to TLR agonists compared to pain free controls suggesting that the TLR/glial pathway in chronic pain patients is 'primed'. Note 'unstimulated' PBMC IL1-b levels didn't differ between patients and controls.

Increased Responsiveness of Peripheral Blood Mononuclear Cells to In Vitro TLR 2, 4 and 7 Ligand Stimulation in Chronic Pain Patients

In summary, TLR agonists (TLR2, TLR4, and TLR7) were found to cause elevation in IL-1β release that could significantly differentiate from chronic pain sufferers on opioids, chronic pain sufferers not on opioids and pain-free participants. This study is the first in providing evidence in human cells that TLRs are more responsive in chronic pain sufferers. As we were able to significantly differentiate three groups on the basis of their IL-1β output, it appears this response of in vitro stimulation of isolated immune cells with TLR agonists may serve to be a potential test for identifying biomarkers for chronic pain from readily accessible peripheral blood samples. (bolding added)

http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0044232

Wouldn't it be nice if similar 'biomarkers' of microglial activation/neuroinflammation could be identified in' readily accessible peripheral blood samples' in ME/CFS patients? Its not as if we're now short of biobanks.
 
Dr Younger listed potential microglial inhibitors that he thinks may be worth investigating at the Stanford and IACFS/ME conferences. Other than naltrexone I don't think most have been studied in fibromyalgia or ME but I think several are very promising. For example, I know many people are using minocycline for its neuroprotective qualities. The list is split into prescription drugs and supplements (primarily from chinese medicine.)
The full list is at http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...-me-21-march-day-two.29098/page-3#post-443598

I'm doing great on minocycline. Don't want to jinx it, but i've had a significant increase in activity, no PEM (so far), clearer head, no pain, no POTs-like symptoms.
Some of the improvement maybe could be attributed to buhner herbs i am also taking, but i noticed the shift to lack of PEM and lack of POTs-like symptoms particularly after taking minocycline.
I have been on other lyme Abx for a year, and am now into my third week on mino.

It stuffs up sleep, but i'm managing that with some add-ons.

Fingers crossed this bout of better health continues. One often looks like a dickhead when touting a cure after a couple of weeks of remission, but it's clear i have improved since minocycline.
 
I had and still have seizures, massive, massive dissociation, psychosis, memory and cognitive problems, occasional halleucinations and intense headaches. I've had white blood cells show up in my spinal fluid, slowing on my EEG and hypoperfusion on my SPECT. I also have fatigue, PEM and all of the physical symptoms ME people do. However I have yet to find one doctor (functional medicine or neurologist) who has any clue what is going on with me. I have tried like hell to get checked out for all types of autoimmune encephalitis but I can't find a doctor willing to try
Yea it sounds like we are the same age and have the same things going on and the same stories. I was diagnosed with a sub-acute variation of autoimmune encephalitis, then dropped by my doctors at NYU. With that diagnosis insurance still won't approve treatment. So I'm left with nothing and no-where to turn. I am so very sorry, all I can say is I understand. I have horrific fatigue and PEM as well. I saw two top CFS specialists but they couldn't help and I had violent reactions to everything they tried, I also have extreme sensitivity to all medication and supplements.
 
Yea it sounds like we are the same age and have the same things going on and the same stories. I was diagnosed with a sub-acute variation of autoimmune encephalitis, then dropped by my doctors at NYU. With that diagnosis insurance still won't approve treatment. So I'm left with nothing and no-where to turn. I am so very sorry, all I can say is I understand. I have horrific fatigue and PEM as well. I saw two top CFS specialists but they couldn't help and I had violent reactions to everything they tried, I also have extreme sensitivity to all medication and supplements.

I have all exactly the same. I even went down to the John Hopkins ER because they are supposed to have an encephalitis specialty inside of their neurology dept but they turned me away.
Sounds like we have a chronic encephalitis on top of ME
 
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Yea it sounds like we are the same age and have the same things going on and the same stories. I was diagnosed with a sub-acute variation of autoimmune encephalitis, then dropped by my doctors at NYU. With that diagnosis insurance still won't approve treatment. So I'm left with nothing and no-where to turn. I am so very sorry, all I can say is I understand. I have horrific fatigue and PEM as well. I saw two top CFS specialists but they couldn't help and I had violent reactions to everything they tried, I also have extreme sensitivity to all medication and supplements.

I have all exactly the same. I even went down to the John Hopkins ER because they are supposed to have an encephalitis specialty inside of their neurology dept but they turned me away.
Sounds like we have a chronic encephalitis on top of ME
Well so far we've figured out you can't go to the following for help with encephalitis: Mayo, Yale, Shands, NYU, and John Hopkins............ Nobody locally has any clue what to do. Also, do you think the inflammation and / or autoimmunity to the brain is causing the neuro-psychiatric symptoms? I've tried psych. meds for 10 years and not a single one has helped. The NYU doctors said if you have inflammation and in my case they called it "severe and extensive", psych. meds can't penetrate and help not until inflammation is brought down. I tried minocycline and had wicked side effects at 1/4 of 50 mg, within a week 4 separate times I developed: c-diff, yeast, and UT infections, also gave me bad insomnia and tiredness.
 
Yea it sounds like we are the same age and have the same things going on and the same stories. I was diagnosed with a sub-acute variation of autoimmune encephalitis, then dropped by my doctors at NYU. With that diagnosis insurance still won't approve treatment. So I'm left with nothing and no-where to turn. I am so very sorry, all I can say is I understand. I have horrific fatigue and PEM as well. I saw two top CFS specialists but they couldn't help and I had violent reactions to everything they tried, I also have extreme sensitivity to all medication and supplements.

I have all exactly the same. I even went down to the John Hopkins ER because they are supposed to have an encephalitis specialty inside of their neurology dept but they turned me away.
Sounds like we have a chronic encephalitis on top of ME
Well so far we've figured out you can't go to the following for help with encephalitis: Mayo, Yale, Shands, NYU, and John Hopkins............ Nobody locally has any clue what to do. Also, do you think the inflammation and / or autoimmunity to the brain is causing the neuro-psychiatric symptoms? I've tried psych. meds for 10 years and not a single one has helped. The NYU doctors said if you have inflammation and in my case they called it "severe and extensive", psych. meds can't penetrate and help not until inflammation is brought down. I tried minocycline and had wicked side effects at 1/4 of 50 mg, within a week 4 separate times I developed: c-diff, yeast, and UT infections, also gave me bad insomnia and tiredness.
Have to retract my statements about NYU, have not been dropped. I am just unbelievably stressed and frustrated and the distance from them makes it harder.

@Aerose91 can you send me a PM?

Also, when taking an antibiotic how do you prevent things like yeast infections and c-diff? Seems to always be a problem for me. I take 3 different really nice probiotics.
 
I have a feeling the inflammation though is throughout the body. I have the lower back pain and neck pain now and ct scans show my spine is fall of bone spurs and shrunken disc spaces etc i said to my doc im just getting bloody old and he said that my back was alot older then me.

I cant help but wonder if all the inflammation i have had from cmv etc has played a big part. I did read a few articles implicating infections as triggers for ankylosing spondylitis, and saw cmv implicated a couple of times?? The increased tnf and il6 which is shown in cfs/me and cause of alot of inflammation is also the big causes in auto immune diseases. Maybe it depends on where this inflammation hits is what we are left with??
 
One thing that supports the brain inflammation theory as well is the frequency of low ADH in us. I initially had encephalitis and learned that encephalitis commonly knocks out ADH in people; not sure why that particular hormone but that would give precedence to the theory that our hypothalamus is part of the brain that is effected. I would like to learn more about this correlation
 
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