Fibromyalgia = Early Aging?

[Cort]

How many times have ME/CFS patients felt like they're 80 years old? Some results kind of suggest that they're aging; the reduced brain volume found is representative, I believe, of aging. The balance problems are common in aging. Cognitive problems are. Some researchers believe the bodies inability to keep up increased oxidative stress as we grow older is what causes aging and there's lots of oxidative stress in ME/CFS.

This paper appears to be suggesting that nervous system is 'wearing out' in fibromyalgia. Some researchers believe the central nervous system in ME/CFS is overexcited - which can lead to neuron death. Dr. Cheney has said that ME/CFS is closer to a seizure state than anything else and he is joked that if he could just put patients into a coma - they might heal.

Lots of speculations; unfortunately little detail in this abstract. Hopefully I'll get this paper at some point.


Rheum Dis Clin North Am. 2009 May;35(2):421-35. Links
Neurophysiopathogenesis of fibromyalgia syndrome: a unified hypothesis. Russell IJ, Larson AA.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19647152?ordinalpos=3&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

The characteristic presenting complaint of patients with fibromyalgia syndrome (FMS) is chronic widespread allodynia. Research findings support the view that FMS is an understandable and treatable neuropathophysiologic disorder. The pain of FMS is often accompanied by one or more other manifestations, such as affective moods, cognitive insecurity, autonomic dysfunction, or irritable bowel or bladder. Growing evidence suggests that this is a familial disorder with many underlying genetic associations.

New findings from brain imaging and polysomnography imply that FMS may be a disorder of premature neurologic aging. A conceptual model at the molecular level is proposed to explain many of the observed features of FMS. The model can also explain anticipated responses to FDA approved pharmacologic therapies.

 

[klutzo]

Coma

Hi Cort,
I apologize for not remembering where I read this. I've read so much, and over the course of the 24 years I've been ill, it has all blurred together.

I remember seeing something about 2 CFS patients who went into a coma for different reasons, and when they came to, both less than two months later, they were CURED. It was suggested, but not with a laugh as Dr. Cheney did, that a short coma might be an effective therapy for CFS.

klutzo

 

[Enid]

Interesting idea klutzo - I recall when very ill and given Gabapentin/Neurontin for pain upping the the dose for full epilepsy. The result was very deep sleep indeed (rising only as needed). And feeling somewhat better (not cured) after that period. Doesn't healing take place at these times.

 

[mellster]

Coma might be a little harsh But that stresses how important enough deep sleep is for regeneration.

 

[alex3619]

Wasn't aggressive sleep therapy tried for CFS in the UK? They put patients out for weeks. So far as I know it never worked. Of course sleep is not quite a coma, and drug induced sleep might interfere with healing. Bye, Alex

 

[Nielk]

Maybe the the reason why "coma" state is effective is because there is no physical or mental stressors to adversely affect one physiologically.

I would tend to venture that many other illnesses might affect a "cure" when the body is in that "restful" state for a period of time.

 

[roxie60]

wish I had a dollar for everytime in the last 7 yrs I said I felt I was 80 yrs old

How many times have ME/CFS patients felt like they're 80 years old? Some results kind of suggest that they're aging; the reduced brain volume found is representative, I believe, of aging. The balance problems are common in aging. Cognitive problems are. Some researchers believe the bodies inability to keep up increased oxidative stress as we grow older is what causes aging and there's lots of oxidative stress in ME/CFS.

This paper appears to be suggesting that nervous system is 'wearing out' in fibromyalgia. Some researchers believe the central nervous system in ME/CFS is overexcited - which can lead to neuron death. Dr. Cheney has said that ME/CFS is closer to a seizure state than anything else and he is joked that if he could just put patients into a coma - they might heal.

Lots of speculations; unfortunately little detail in this abstract. Hopefully I'll get this paper at some point.


Rheum Dis Clin North Am. 2009 May;35(2):421-35. Links
Neurophysiopathogenesis of fibromyalgia syndrome: a unified hypothesis. Russell IJ, Larson AA.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...nel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

 

[ukxmrv]

We did try sleep/coma therapy for ME patients in the UK (as Alex said). I saw the doctor who was doing this (he had a lucrative private practise) and met some of his patients. It was a disaster for the ME patients that I met, having been made worse by the experience.

 

[Enid]

I suggest timing may play a part in deep sleep therapy - mine came at the time of raging neuropathic pain and inability to sleep. Following my course of restorative sleep all the other symptoms needed adddressing (GI, glandular, Rich's methylation etc).

 

[PhoenixDown]

I suggest timing may play a part in deep sleep therapy - mine came at the time of raging neuropathic pain and inability to sleep. Following my course of restorative sleep all the other symptoms needed adddressing (GI, glandular, Rich's methylation etc).

Can you explain what exactly neuropathic pain is and how precisely does one test for it, or is it just another term for idiopathic pain?

 

[brenda]

My 80 year old neighbour just got back from her home country where she visited her brother and helped him with his Alzheimers wife. She is going back out in October. Earlier this year she went to visit her son in a different country to sort his garden out for him. The day after she returned she was out in her garden cutting the hedges that had misbehaved themselves in the three weeks she was away, routing out every weed that is not allowed there. She goes swimming every week and until I stopped due to her boy racer driving, took me on shopping trips every week.

Wish I felt like her

 

[Husband of]

Two things

1. Ever seen the life extension range of supplements? At first I thought a heap of them must have be designed for cfs - as it’s all things that might help according to cfs research (much of which is preliminary) - but turns out most of these supplements are designed for extending life.

2. I had the same thought about coma being a potential treatment, and also thought it might actually make people worse. I’m still new to biology speak, but I remember reading something about toxins (?) being released by the brain into (somewhere else?) during deep sleep, which made me wonder if it could be bad for people with cfs. The body might be preventing dee sleep fro a reason. Actually I think someone in this forum in some thread somewhere suggested they have felt worse when they’ve had deep sleep induced and had the same thought process about it as I have just mentioned.
Would be interesting to hear more about the studies that have occurred