Fecal-derived, full-spectrum, sterilized postbiotic

[Learner1]

While your own poo is not suitable for others to use, it can still be highly beneficial to yourself when "recycled" as FMT using your own stool (autologous FMT).

While this sounds very interesting, It is unclear to me how self-FMT would repopulate bacterial strains that are missing from ones microbiome, like butyrate producing bacteria, oxalate degrading bacteria, lactobacilli or bifidobacteria, introduce helpful species like lactobacillus plantarum which can take care of bad actors, reduce Candida or viruses or macrophages creating problems in the gut.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

While this sounds very interesting, It is unclear to me how self-FMT would repopulate bacterial strains that are missing from ones microbiome, like butyrate producing bacteria, oxalate degrading bacteria, lactobacilli or bifidobacteria, introduce helpful species like lactobacillus plantarum which can take care of bad actors, reduce Candida or viruses or macrophages creating problems in the gut.

Maybe in the hope that live, active, beneficial bacteria may be trying to escape a hostile environment in the only way they can ???

Yeah, it's kind of a mystery to me as well .... but then, so much of everything is ....

 

[Learner1]

Maybe in the hope that live, active, beneficial bacteria may be trying to escape a hostile environment in the only way they can ???

Yeah, it's kind of a mystery to me as well .... but then, so much of everything is ....

It's like Rumpelstiltskin and spinning straw into gold, a fantasy

 

[kangaSue]

While this sounds very interesting, It is unclear to me how self-FMT would repopulate bacterial strains that are missing from ones microbiome,

As I alluded to, success or failure of FMT is not simply just about the transfer of beneficial bacteria. There are far more factors involved in it being effective or not, and that part of the science is still very much a work in progress.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/1756284820946904
Mechanisms underpinning the efficacy of faecal microbiota transplantation in treating gastrointestinal disease (2020)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6236173/
The need to move away from fecal transplant towards targeted, refined microbiome therapy
[ The mechanisms behind FMT’s efficacy are largely unknown (2), which can prevent the development of a targeted, refined microbiome based therapy. The contents of FMT are complex, and include both live and dead bacteria as well as non-bacterial components such as viruses, bile acids and proteins (2). It is not known if some, or all of these components are necessary for the clinical efficacy of FMT. When considering the gut microbiome, it is vital to consider not only the bacteria, but also the viruses (virome), the fungal elements (mycobiome) and many small molecules, such as bile acids, and short chain fatty acids (SCFAs). These factors may be contributing to, or perpetuating gut dysbiosis, a hallmark of C. difficile pathogenesis. ]

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/1756284820946904
Mechanisms underpinning the efficacy of faecal microbiota transplantation in treating gastrointestinal disease (2020)

 

[Learner1]

As I alluded to, success or failure of FMT is not simply just about the transfer of beneficial bacteria. There are far more factors involved in it being effective or not, and that part of the science is still very much a work in progress.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/1756284820946904
Mechanisms underpinning the efficacy of faecal microbiota transplantation in treating gastrointestinal disease (2020)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6236173/
The need to move away from fecal transplant towards targeted, refined microbiome therapy
[ The mechanisms behind FMT’s efficacy are largely unknown (2), which can prevent the development of a targeted, refined microbiome based therapy. The contents of FMT are complex, and include both live and dead bacteria as well as non-bacterial components such as viruses, bile acids and proteins (2). It is not known if some, or all of these components are necessary for the clinical efficacy of FMT. When considering the gut microbiome, it is vital to consider not only the bacteria, but also the viruses (virome), the fungal elements (mycobiome) and many small molecules, such as bile acids, and short chain fatty acids (SCFAs). These factors may be contributing to, or perpetuating gut dysbiosis, a hallmark of C. difficile pathogenesis. ]

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/1756284820946904
Mechanisms underpinning the efficacy of faecal microbiota transplantation in treating gastrointestinal disease (2020)

Exactly. It's really complex.

 

[Daffodil]

dont forget phages !

 

[Shanti1]

I spoke with one of the Docs from Floramedicine yesterday and I said I would report back if I learned anything more, so here is it is. The info below was what was conveyed to me:

ThaenaBiotic- $600 for 50 capsules

This is a fecal-derived, sterilized postbiotic derived from a pool of donors that pass FDA requirements for fecal transplant donors. It basically contains bacterial metabolites/dead bacteria. It can be used as a "one-and-done" for c. dif but needs to be taken on a longer-term basis for more chronic conditions. For chronic conditions, the dose is 1 per day. Some people can take it for a few months and have the results hold, others need to take it for longer or are only able to stay in remission by continual use. The product is only 1.5 years old, so they don't have data further out than that.​

​

Based on internal studies done by FloraMedicine, even though ThaenaBiotic is not a live bacterial product, microbiome testing from before and after use shows significant beneficial changes in microbiome composition. The general response rate for GI conditions was reported to be about 70%. I asked about ME/CFS, and she said it was "hit or miss", sometimes an improvement in just GI symptoms, sometimes an improvement in energy, sometimes nothing. For IBS and IBD, there is typically a flair of gas and bloating as the microbiome adjusts and changes before things improve.​

​

FMT Oral Pills - 30 pills for $1300

FloraMedicine also offers FMT pills. Legally, these can only be prescribed for c. dif, but the pills aren't traced by a regulatory agency the way that FMT material from FMT banks is, so the doc I spoke to "suspects" that some practitioners use FMT pills off label (so if a patient is working with a practitioner who is willing to order these, they can potentially get FMT without having c dif). Typically, antibiotics or natural antimicrobials are used prior to the FMT pills and then all 30 are ingested at once.​

​

I won't be using either of these products myself. I was considering them for my husband who has IBS with a touch of IBD, but, as others on this thread have commented, the price point is really high, especially if you need more than one bottle.