False Starwort for CFS

[andyguitar]

False Starwort...never heard of it. But helpful for mice who have "induced CFS" according to this research.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Pretty sure this is in my personal mix of chinese herbs- but I can't find the list. (a constant issue around here is organization, lack of it, in brain, in computer, on shelves, in folders).

Anyway, I took a break on that mix and havent taken any in one year.

us CFS people meanwhile need to do something about Animal Torture in CFS experiments.

Nearly drowning animals is not my idea of solving our problem and is really questionable- as thats just induced fatigue.

 

[nerd]

Interesting study. I wish there was more like this.

Here's my take. Their CFS mouse model seems to cover what would otherwise be induced by EBV and other pathogens. But it isn't sustainable CFS that is induced by Poly I:C. It's a reversible CFS condition without the maintaining background pathology. Their proposed medicine at least improves recovery. I would have to look at the drug's mechanisms of action to form an opinion if it could also help with chronic CFS/ME.

I would change their mouse model in that I would use the drug simultaneously with a strong immune suppressant and an EBV mutant taken from a CFS/ME patient. This could actually induce chronic CFS/ME. But I'm not sure if it could work with mice because they are the original hosts of EBV, so they might have evolutionally acquired resistance to developing the chronic form of the condition. The reason for this might be that their immune system handles EBV so well that CFS/ME couldn't be triggered. And that's why Poly I:C and immune suppression could help.

In the coming week or so, I will write a more sophisticated explanation of my thymus theory and how other common hypotheses and this mouse model fit into it.

 

[andyguitar]

I would have to look at the drug's mechanisms of action to form an opinion if it could also help with chronic CFS/ME.

Very dificult to determine which element of the herb is giving the benefit @nerd

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Very dificult to determine which element of the herb is giving the benefit

herbs come with synergistic properties which largely wont be understood thru isolating individual chemical components...but I think these kinds of studies are helpful and I hope we see more.

I just wish they'd ditch induced fatigue.

 

[Judee]

I just wish they'd ditch induced fatigue.

And I wonder how truly useful it is since they still don't know what is "inducing" our condition.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

they still don't know what is "inducing" our condition.

I think the idea is- the poor study animals are not chronically ill, or chronically anything.

They force them to get tired. (swim) (wheels)

The Japanese do studies on CFS focused on Tired, Fatigued. They seem to not view this as having a viral onset.

And then, they induce fatigue in those studies on humans, using Executive Function type things (your fatigue is induced by having to think alot).

 

[nerd]

They force them to get tired. (swim) (wheels)

This was just a control to measure fatigue. You can't ask mice how they feel, so this is their measure for how fatigued they really are.

They seem to not view this as having a viral onset.

It's still focused on immunology and how viruses modulate the immune system.