Bob
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The New York Times
Tending the Body’s Microbial Garden
By CARL ZIMMERPublished: June 18, 2012
Interesting extract from the article:
-
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Faecal transplant eases symptoms of Parkinson's (and CFS)
- Thread starter Bob
- Start date
Interesting extract from the article:
My illness began after antibiotics wiped out my intestinal flora completely. Candida soon became a way of life that just wouldn't go away. I did a lot of research on probiotics a few years ago, looking for the best possible combinations to balance my system. I was NOT happy to learn that most products designed to restore gut bacteria have to be taken constantly to have effect, although they do repopulate to some degree. Further research into this subject revealed that the way a small baby's intestinal flora grow is getting them from the mother and from contact with family members... yeah, ew gross... and the best way to repopulate for anyone is to live with other people, picking it up from surfaces that so many of us think have to be perfectly sanitary to live. There was a discussion about dogs, and how they will eat each other's fecal matter for this very reason. They are cross-populating their systems. So... this researcher was extracting flora from the feces of family members to culture and produce a custom-made and cleaned-up pill for the patient, exactly matched to their needs. This was just a little too much for me. Yes, I could just see myself talking to my daughter, "Hey, honey, I need a donation..." not a kidney, not blood, not bone marrow. Sure, no problem, right? NOT. Still haven't adjusted to the idea completely, but at the same time, wish I could do this. A family member's flora would regrow a colony that would be permanent. 2-5 pounds of good flora in our systems produce the B vitamins we need to be healthy and have a sense of well-being, something I have been missing now for over 26 years. How nice that would be!
Strange how these things go - it was precisely after antibiotic treatment following teeth (roots) extraction that improved my GI issues (albeit using masses of probiotics afterwards - repopulation). So this is so central for ME - surely gastrointestinal/workings/understanding would be better in the first place - like precisely what are the ones needing replacement.
I've no idea if this is posted on this tread or another yet, if so, plse ignore.
The link below is an abstract of an article published in 1995 (or maybe the entire article?) by Dr.Borody.
Reversal of CFS can be achieved following manipulation of the bowel flora in a proportion of patients with long term improvement achieved in around 40 %
http://www.cdd.com.au/pdf/publications/All Publications/1995-Bacteriotherapy for chronic fatigue syndrome a long term follow-up study.pdf
I kind of have troubles interpreting the results. Would be nice to read the hole article.
A more recent article about using FMT for C.diff infection.
http://www.2ndchance.info/inflambowel-Borody2012.pdf
The link below is an abstract of an article published in 1995 (or maybe the entire article?) by Dr.Borody.
Reversal of CFS can be achieved following manipulation of the bowel flora in a proportion of patients with long term improvement achieved in around 40 %
http://www.cdd.com.au/pdf/publications/All Publications/1995-Bacteriotherapy for chronic fatigue syndrome a long term follow-up study.pdf
I kind of have troubles interpreting the results. Would be nice to read the hole article.
A more recent article about using FMT for C.diff infection.
http://www.2ndchance.info/inflambowel-Borody2012.pdf
Bob
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- England (south coast)
Thanks Legolas.
It's a very small study, with no control group, so it doesn't tell us much.
But it would be worth following up.
They treated with antibiotics before treating with probiotics.
Marlène
Senior Member
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- Edegem, Belgium
My neurologist called me yesterday to discuss my results and proposed me the fecal transplantation. He said: "First we empty your bowels and then we reintroduce the transplant.'
A few questions remain:
- My daily headache (since the age of 6) gets worse when I eat something "wrong". I wonder if fecal transplant could solve that problem.
- I wanted to start AB to eliminate a chlamydia pneumonia infection (protocol >1 year). Would a healthy gut make AB treatment unnecessary to silence bacterial infection?
- What would be the impact on methylation or partial methylation block (as proposed by Rich von Konynenburg)
- Gut bacteria have an impact on your personality (introvert - extravert) I read once. Would a fecal transplant be able to change your behavior?
A few questions remain:
- My daily headache (since the age of 6) gets worse when I eat something "wrong". I wonder if fecal transplant could solve that problem.
- I wanted to start AB to eliminate a chlamydia pneumonia infection (protocol >1 year). Would a healthy gut make AB treatment unnecessary to silence bacterial infection?
- What would be the impact on methylation or partial methylation block (as proposed by Rich von Konynenburg)
- Gut bacteria have an impact on your personality (introvert - extravert) I read once. Would a fecal transplant be able to change your behavior?
i put this below post on it's own thread, too, on this forum. (http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/fecal-transplant-study-58-70-recovery-rate.20430/) but i'll post it here as well. it is an October 2012 study. WHAT AN AMAZING SUCCESS RATE: 58-70%!? -- rrrr
This is an Australian Fecal Transplant study that had a 58-70% recovery rate for ME/CFS!!!
For treating CFS (published oct 2012)
http://www.eventscribe.com/2012/acg/ajaxcalls/postersinfo.asp?title=6110
Bacteriotherapy in Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS): A Retrospective Review
Conclusion: Bacteriotherapy achieves initial success rate of 70% in CFS and 58% sustained response. This result is favourable when compared with current therapies where fewer than 10% recover fully and a further 10%-20% worsen during follow-up1. Given that manipulation of the colonic microbiota improved CFS symptoms, bacteriotherapy for CFS warrants further investigation. Furthermore, the pathophysiology of CFS could be in part explained by enteric derived toxin-releasing bacteria capable of producing systemic effects.
For treating CFS (published oct 2012)
http://www.eventscribe.com/2012/acg/ajaxcalls/postersinfo.asp?title=6110
Bacteriotherapy in Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS): A Retrospective Review
Conclusion: Bacteriotherapy achieves initial success rate of 70% in CFS and 58% sustained response. This result is favourable when compared with current therapies where fewer than 10% recover fully and a further 10%-20% worsen during follow-up1. Given that manipulation of the colonic microbiota improved CFS symptoms, bacteriotherapy for CFS warrants further investigation. Furthermore, the pathophysiology of CFS could be in part explained by enteric derived toxin-releasing bacteria capable of producing systemic effects.
I did a bit of research on how to do this yourself. Here is what I found:
PRE-TRANSPLANT PROCEDURE FOR RECIPIENT
http://www.nleducation.co.uk/resources/reviews/pass-the-poomedicine/
Transplantation Protocol
Recipients were initiated on maintenance therapy with oral Saccharomyces Boulardii (Florastor; Biocodex Inc,) 500 mg orally twice per day, plus metronidazole 500 mg orally 3 times per day or vancomycin 125 mg orally 4 times per day, to ensure they were asymptomatic until 24–48 hours prior to the procedure. All patients were asked to return to clinic for follow-up 2 weeks post procedure.[25]
_______
HOW TO DO IT YOURSELF
1) http://www.mediafire.com/?xyp9k29alurs1c5
(or for this same document, see my separate file on this on my computer)
2) http://www.nleducation.co.uk/resources/reviews/pass-the-poomedicine/
3) more details here, including putting it thru coffee grinds
http://scienceblogs.com/aetiology/2007/12/17/fecal-transplants-to-cure-clos/
and same info here
http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/36/5/580.full
Select a stool specimen (preferably a soft specimen) with a weight of 30 g or a volume of 2 cm^3. Add 50-70 mL of sterile 0.9 N NaCl to the stool sample and homogenize with a household blender. Initially use the low setting until the sample breaks up; then, advance the speed gradually to the highest setting. Continue for 2-4 min until the sample is smooth. Filter the suspension using a paper coffee filter. Allow adequate time for slow filtration to come to an end. Refilter the suspension, again using a paper coffee filter. As before, allow adequate time for slow filtration. 25 mL of the suspension is then transferred to the recipient, who’s already been prepared for the transplant via treatment with vancomycin (to kill off as much existing C. difficile as possible) and omeprazole (Prilosec, to decrease stomach acid production). The tube is then flushed with a salt solution and removed, and the recipient is free to go. (They were followed up either via phone or return visits to the clinic).
4) http://scienceblogs.com/aetiology/2007/12/17/fecal-transplants-to-cure-clos/
Someone wrote in the comments section of this article
If you’re thinking of doing a fecal transplant for crohn’s, c. diff or whatever, it’s better to use a sterile saline solution to mix up the poop than water. Water destroys some of the good bacteria. One doesn’t need to get this done by others – you can do it in your own home. Just get some donor poo (I recommend a complete screening of the donor person for diseases)and mix it in a blender with saline solution until it is very watery and smooth. Strain it through a fine strainer into a container and then suck it up into a rectal syringe. Squeeze it in to your bum like a fleet enema. Leave it in for about an hour and a half. If you have trouble leaving it in, lie on your back and put two pillows under your bum, elevating it. This helps keep it in. Do this every second day for a few weeks and you’ll be better!
Another commenter:
Just purchase a three pack of enema containers (4.5 oz size is fine) from the drugstore. Mix a small amount of stool about half the length of your thumb in a blender with about 8 oz of .9 saline solution. He may need his doctor to call in a prescription for the .9 saline solution. It’s often used for irrigating wounds and such, so the pharmacy will have it but a prescription is needed. Dump out the water that’s already in the enema container as it contains a laxative. Mix the stool in a blender with the .9 saline solution and poor into the enema container. Insert the contents of the container in the rectum and hold at least a couple of hours, if possible. Then repeat the procedure every other day for 3 enemas. He will feel better very soon, likely within a week. Donor should be tested for c-diff and other parasites first. It is amazing how effective this procedure is!
Another commenter:
Self-administered a transplant using my husband as a donor almost a month ago with amazing results! The key really was finding an enema bag with an occlusion bulb so I could hold in the transplant for 2 hours.
5) buy a guidebook on how to do this
http://fecalinfusions.com/
PRE-TRANSPLANT PROCEDURE FOR RECIPIENT
http://www.nleducation.co.uk/resources/reviews/pass-the-poomedicine/
Transplantation Protocol
Recipients were initiated on maintenance therapy with oral Saccharomyces Boulardii (Florastor; Biocodex Inc,) 500 mg orally twice per day, plus metronidazole 500 mg orally 3 times per day or vancomycin 125 mg orally 4 times per day, to ensure they were asymptomatic until 24–48 hours prior to the procedure. All patients were asked to return to clinic for follow-up 2 weeks post procedure.[25]
_______
HOW TO DO IT YOURSELF
1) http://www.mediafire.com/?xyp9k29alurs1c5
(or for this same document, see my separate file on this on my computer)
2) http://www.nleducation.co.uk/resources/reviews/pass-the-poomedicine/
3) more details here, including putting it thru coffee grinds
http://scienceblogs.com/aetiology/2007/12/17/fecal-transplants-to-cure-clos/
and same info here
http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/36/5/580.full
Select a stool specimen (preferably a soft specimen) with a weight of 30 g or a volume of 2 cm^3. Add 50-70 mL of sterile 0.9 N NaCl to the stool sample and homogenize with a household blender. Initially use the low setting until the sample breaks up; then, advance the speed gradually to the highest setting. Continue for 2-4 min until the sample is smooth. Filter the suspension using a paper coffee filter. Allow adequate time for slow filtration to come to an end. Refilter the suspension, again using a paper coffee filter. As before, allow adequate time for slow filtration. 25 mL of the suspension is then transferred to the recipient, who’s already been prepared for the transplant via treatment with vancomycin (to kill off as much existing C. difficile as possible) and omeprazole (Prilosec, to decrease stomach acid production). The tube is then flushed with a salt solution and removed, and the recipient is free to go. (They were followed up either via phone or return visits to the clinic).
4) http://scienceblogs.com/aetiology/2007/12/17/fecal-transplants-to-cure-clos/
Someone wrote in the comments section of this article
If you’re thinking of doing a fecal transplant for crohn’s, c. diff or whatever, it’s better to use a sterile saline solution to mix up the poop than water. Water destroys some of the good bacteria. One doesn’t need to get this done by others – you can do it in your own home. Just get some donor poo (I recommend a complete screening of the donor person for diseases)and mix it in a blender with saline solution until it is very watery and smooth. Strain it through a fine strainer into a container and then suck it up into a rectal syringe. Squeeze it in to your bum like a fleet enema. Leave it in for about an hour and a half. If you have trouble leaving it in, lie on your back and put two pillows under your bum, elevating it. This helps keep it in. Do this every second day for a few weeks and you’ll be better!
Another commenter:
Just purchase a three pack of enema containers (4.5 oz size is fine) from the drugstore. Mix a small amount of stool about half the length of your thumb in a blender with about 8 oz of .9 saline solution. He may need his doctor to call in a prescription for the .9 saline solution. It’s often used for irrigating wounds and such, so the pharmacy will have it but a prescription is needed. Dump out the water that’s already in the enema container as it contains a laxative. Mix the stool in a blender with the .9 saline solution and poor into the enema container. Insert the contents of the container in the rectum and hold at least a couple of hours, if possible. Then repeat the procedure every other day for 3 enemas. He will feel better very soon, likely within a week. Donor should be tested for c-diff and other parasites first. It is amazing how effective this procedure is!
Another commenter:
Self-administered a transplant using my husband as a donor almost a month ago with amazing results! The key really was finding an enema bag with an occlusion bulb so I could hold in the transplant for 2 hours.
5) buy a guidebook on how to do this
http://fecalinfusions.com/
Esther12
Senior Member
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Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
Marlène
Senior Member
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- 443
- Location
- Edegem, Belgium
I read once it is better to use poop of breastfed babies under 3 months who are not vaccinated yet. Better check if mummy is eating well and in excellent health too of course ...
kisekishiawase
sad
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why isnt there any response anymore here?
anyway, ive heard about this it sounds promising but still feel unsure about this. because worried about some bad possibilities that could happen such as enetrovirus, etc.
however what about fermented/cultured vegetables? wasnt it also help with good bacteria?
anyway, ive heard about this it sounds promising but still feel unsure about this. because worried about some bad possibilities that could happen such as enetrovirus, etc.
however what about fermented/cultured vegetables? wasnt it also help with good bacteria?
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- Austin, TX
This is just out in Science magazine on August 30, 2013.
Science 30 August 2013:
Vol. 341 no. 6149 pp. 954-957
DOI: 10.1126/science.341.6149.954
entitled "The Promise of Poop"
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/341/6149/954.short
This is just the short version. I have read the whole article and it is very convincing of the efficacy of it.
Here's an excerpt:
"But recurrent C. [Clostridium difficile] infections were
still on the rise, as was antibiotic resistance
in the bacteria. Interest in fecal transplants
grew in the United States after a 2010 article
in The New York Times about the successful
treatment of a very serious C. case
by Alexander Khoruts, a gastroenterologist
at the University of Minnesota Medical Cen-
ter in Minneapolis. “I realized that to let this
therapy become accepted by the community
of physicians, we would have to do a random-
ized clinical trial,” Nieuwdorp says.
That study compared fecal transplants
with vancomycin, the standard treatment for
C. or vancomycin combined with
bowel flushing. The researchers aimed to
enroll 120 patients, but the study’s data and
safety monitoring board halted the study
after just 43 patients, because continuing
would be unethical: Ninety-four percent of
the transplant patients were cured, versus
31% and 23%, respectively, in the control
groups. The resulting NEJM paper “did bring
the procedure closer to mainstream medi-
cine,” Khoruts says."
Science magazine giving this procedure such a positive review implies to me that this is
becoming some serious shit. No offense intended, but I just couldn't resist saying that.
Science 30 August 2013:
Vol. 341 no. 6149 pp. 954-957
DOI: 10.1126/science.341.6149.954
entitled "The Promise of Poop"
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/341/6149/954.short
This is just the short version. I have read the whole article and it is very convincing of the efficacy of it.
Here's an excerpt:
"But recurrent C. [Clostridium difficile] infections were
still on the rise, as was antibiotic resistance
in the bacteria. Interest in fecal transplants
grew in the United States after a 2010 article
in The New York Times about the successful
treatment of a very serious C. case
by Alexander Khoruts, a gastroenterologist
at the University of Minnesota Medical Cen-
ter in Minneapolis. “I realized that to let this
therapy become accepted by the community
of physicians, we would have to do a random-
ized clinical trial,” Nieuwdorp says.
That study compared fecal transplants
with vancomycin, the standard treatment for
C. or vancomycin combined with
bowel flushing. The researchers aimed to
enroll 120 patients, but the study’s data and
safety monitoring board halted the study
after just 43 patients, because continuing
would be unethical: Ninety-four percent of
the transplant patients were cured, versus
31% and 23%, respectively, in the control
groups. The resulting NEJM paper “did bring
the procedure closer to mainstream medi-
cine,” Khoruts says."
Science magazine giving this procedure such a positive review implies to me that this is
becoming some serious shit. No offense intended, but I just couldn't resist saying that.