Faecal transplant eases symptoms of Parkinson's (and CFS)

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Bob

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RunningOnEmpty said:
I'm trying to find a doctor who is willing to perform this procedure.

Anyone know of a doctor who will do it?
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I've no idea where you could find a doctor to help with this, but it might be worth contacting the researcher referred to in the article posted at the beginning of this thread...

The researcher is Prof Thomas Borody, a gastroenterologist at the Centre for Digestive Diseases in New South Wales, Australia...

Here is his profile page, and the contact details for the Centre for Digestive Diseases, in New South Wales, are at the top right-hand corner of his profile page...
http://www.cdd.com.au/pages/clinical_staff.html
 
pinkytuscadaro

pinkytuscadaro

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Dainty,
I am considering it for sure.
Please Dainty keep me up to date on your research.
If the RV's don't work out for me this may be my next trial.
We never know what tomorrow may bring :)
Pinky
 
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Glynis Steele

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jenbooks said
But I wouldn't do antibiotic therapy ahead of time
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Hi Jenbooks and Dainty,

I found this study which seems to suggest that prior abx treatment might not be needed, or at least I think this is what it is saying?...

Reshaping the gut microbiome with bacterial transplantation and antibiotic intake
Chaysavanh Manichanh1,5, Jens Reeder2, Prudence Gibert1, Encarna Varela1, Marta Llopis1, Maria Antolin1, Roderic Guigo3, Rob Knight2,4 and Francisco Guarner1
+ Author Affiliations

1 Digestive System Research Unit, University Hospital Vall d'Hebron, Ciberehd, 08035 Barcelona, Spain;
2 Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry, University of Colorado, Boulder, Colorado 80309, USA;
3 Center for Genomic Regulation, Universitat Pompeu Fabra, 08003 Barcelona, Catalonia, Spain;
4 Howard Hughes Medical Institute, University of Colorado, Boulder, Colorado 80309, USA
Abstract
The intestinal microbiota consists of over 1000 species, which play key roles in gut physiology and homeostasis. Imbalances in the composition of this bacterial community can lead to transient intestinal dysfunctions and chronic disease states. Understanding how to manipulate this ecosystem is thus essential for treating many disorders. In this study, we took advantage of recently developed tools for deep sequencing and phylogenetic clustering to examine the long-term effects of exogenous microbiota transplantation combined with and without an antibiotic pretreatment. In our rat model, deep sequencing revealed an intestinal bacterial diversity exceeding that of the human gut by a factor of two to three. The transplantation produced a marked increase in the microbial diversity of the recipients, which stemmed from both capture of new phylotypes and increase in abundance of others. However, when transplantation was performed after antibiotic intake, the resulting state simply combined the reshaping effects of the individual treatments (including the reduced diversity from antibiotic treatment alone). Therefore, lowering the recipient bacterial load by antibiotic intake prior to transplantation did not increase establishment of the donor phylotypes, although some dominant lineages still transferred successfully. Remarkably, all of these effects were observed after 1 mo of treatment and persisted after 3 mo. Overall, our results indicate that the indigenous gut microbial composition is more plastic that previously anticipated. However, since antibiotic pretreatment counterintuitively interferes with the establishment of an exogenous community, such plasticity is likely conditioned more by the altered microbiome gut homeostasis caused by antibiotics than by the primary bacterial loss

Glynis
 
Nielk

Nielk

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dannybex said:
Hi Dainty,

See my post on the first page (or 2nd?) of this thread. Legitimate studies have shown that introducing -- giving patients parasites, or other gut bugs -- instead of killing them off, has resulted in improvements, and even cures of certain problems.

Here's an article discussing IBD and Chron's:

"About 10 years after improved hygiene and deworming efforts reduced worms in a given population, I.B.D. rates jumped. Weinstock had his hypothesis: after a long coevolution, the human immune system came to depend on the worms for proper functioning. When cleaner conditions and new medicines evicted the worms from our bodies, the immune system went out of kilter. “Hygiene has made our lives better,” says Weinstock, now at Tufts University. “But in the process of eliminating exposure to the 10 or 20 things that can make us sick, we’re also eliminating exposure to things that make us well.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/29/magazine/29wwln-essay-t.html

And with the high rate of gut issues w/CFS, perhaps the same problem is occuring?
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I have been very perplexed by this thread.
We are constantly told to DETOXIFY our bodies. clean out our system, take probiotics, take digestive enzymes, take colonics to clean out your intestines.

Now it seems that introducing foreign exposures into our body, will heal us?
If we can't fight our own toxicity, how will we fight off someone elses?
 
jenbooks

jenbooks

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You're getting a fecal transplant from a healthy person, Neil, with a robust and thriving, balanced flora that will help correct the imbalances in your own.
 
Nielk

Nielk

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jenbooks said:
You're getting a fecal transplant from a healthy person, Neil, with a robust and thriving, balanced flora that will help correct the imbalances in your own.
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#1- why not just get rid of our problematic fecal wastes that reside in our bodies with a series of colonics.

#2- if a transplant is needed to balance our flora, how long would this stay in our system? doesn't it get eliminated?
 
B

Bob

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Nielk said:
#1- why not just get rid of our problematic fecal wastes that reside in our bodies with a series of colonics.

#2- if a transplant is needed to balance our flora, how long would this stay in our system? doesn't it get eliminated?
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Good questions, Nielk...
I'm not an expert in this subject, but my understanding is as follows...
The purpose of a faecal transplant, is purely to introduce healthy colon bacteria into our colons/gut...
This is very similar to taking probiotics, except that the bacteria will be naturally occurring, and obviously the method is very different.
Once the feaces has been implanted, then the beneficial bacteria in it will take residence in your own colon, and start to feed on your own waste.
The implanted feacal matter will soon be expelled (i.e you will go to toilet), leaving the healthy bacteria behind, residing and thriving in your own colon.
I think that's the theory behind it, anyway.
 
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Bob

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Jenny

Jenny

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Thanks Bob - this is an interesting programme. Talks about probiotics and prebiotics too.

It's already available on iplayer.

Jenny
 
redo

redo

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beike said:
Hydrogen sulfide produced by streptococcus and enterococcus bacteria has been implicated by Dr. Kenny De Meirleir as a contributing factor in ME/CFS. This therapy may prove very helpful for people who have problems with these bacteria. My wife is XMRV positive and has an overgrowth of streptococcus in her gut. The same stool test showed she had low levels of secretory Iga in her stool. Here is a link with some info about secretory Iga: http://www.articlesbase.com/health-articles/autism-treatment-secretory-iga-immune-function-and-the-mucosal-barrier-1567239.html
Dr. Kenny De Meirlier also found people infected with XMRV have lower Iga levels. This could mean that XMRV is suppressing the immune system’s ability to control the balance of intestinal flora, leading to the overgrowth of bacteria like streptococcus and enterococcus that poison the body with hydrogen sulfide.
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Thank you very much for that info. I hadn't heard about IgA's role in this. Nor the hypothesis that the viruses may interfere with the body's ability to regulate the gut properly.

I got worse after a food poisoning. It was at the very beginning of my disease.
 
redo

redo

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@Glynis. Thanks.

RunningOnEmpty said:
Thanks Bob!! I will contact Dr Borody.

Best regards,
D.
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It's been about a month since you posted. Please let us know how's it going. I'd love to hear it if youmve begun some test treatment.

I guess too that although nothing is without risk, this is a lot less risky than many other treatments.
 
redo

redo

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"But its not like they put it on a plate and have you eat it. You dont ever see or smell a thing.
"People will have a blood transplant or a kidney transplant whats the difference with this?"

Here is the procedure:
They insert a tube down to the gut (you don't even get to see anything). It's no worse than other treatments. Please don't make this into a joke thread. On a case basis it has worked for CFS, RA and MS. That is really great. The fact that it works in these conditions which I have for long suspected have a common nominator (such as clostridum bacteria or other microbes in the gut) makes the case reports more valid to me.

http://qjmed.oxfordjournals.org/content/102/11/781.full

Excerpt from the NewScientist artice:
Over the past decade, Borody has noticed that some of his patients also see improvements in symptoms of their other diseases, including Parkinson's, multiple sclerosis (MS), chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) and rheumatoid arthritis. "Some CFS patients, given a faecal transplant, will regain their energy quite dramatically, and their foggy brains will get better," says Borody. (my bold)

If I lived in the UK, I would defiantly try this. The scientists who published the study showing it could cure 11 out of 15 people with c. difficile are from the UK.
 
redo

redo

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If we were suffering from headaches or influenza I might laugh at people trying to change the content of their intestines. But when it's a disease which has totally destroyed everything for me, it's a totally different story. Please let's make this thread about the treatment, it's effects, and why it might/might not work.
 
redo

redo

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It seems to work very well for C. difficile:

More than 90 per cent of C. difficile patients are cured by fecal transplants, studies suggest

And: Fecal transplants have become the first-line treatment for chronic recurrent C. difficile in Scandinavia. As well, more and more doctors are using it in the United States.

Calgary physician Dr. Tom Louie, head of infection control at Foothills Hospital, is one of the few physicians in Canada who treats patients with chronic C. difficile with fecal transplants, or fecal therapy. He has done 38 procedures to date.

Another doctor from Canada has published a study about it.

The quotes above are from this article:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/story/2007/11/13/fecal-transplant.html

Point is: Although not very common, it's a procedure which seems to be at use in various countries.

My guess is that this is more harmless than many other experimental CFS treatments.

The procedure is being used many places, for Clostridum infections.
 
Enid

Enid

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Much enjoying the humour here but with such a list - Parkinsons,MS,Rheum Arth, Diabetes,CFS,Autoimmunities - it's pretty obvious the correct functioning of the gut is far more important/fundamental with wider disease processes than was previously realised. Major organ.
 
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