I found this study which seems to suggest that prior abx treatment might not be needed, or at least I think this is what it is saying?...
Reshaping the gut microbiome with bacterial transplantation and antibiotic intake
Chaysavanh Manichanh1,5, Jens Reeder2, Prudence Gibert1, Encarna Varela1, Marta Llopis1, Maria Antolin1, Roderic Guigo3, Rob Knight2,4 and Francisco Guarner1
+ Author Affiliations
1 Digestive System Research Unit, University Hospital Vall d'Hebron, Ciberehd, 08035 Barcelona, Spain;
2 Department of Chemistry and Biochemistry, University of Colorado, Boulder, Colorado 80309, USA;
3 Center for Genomic Regulation, Universitat Pompeu Fabra, 08003 Barcelona, Catalonia, Spain;
4 Howard Hughes Medical Institute, University of Colorado, Boulder, Colorado 80309, USA
The intestinal microbiota consists of over 1000 species, which play key roles in gut physiology and homeostasis. Imbalances in the composition of this bacterial community can lead to transient intestinal dysfunctions and chronic disease states. Understanding how to manipulate this ecosystem is thus essential for treating many disorders. In this study, we took advantage of recently developed tools for deep sequencing and phylogenetic clustering to examine the long-term effects of exogenous microbiota transplantation combined with and without an antibiotic pretreatment. In our rat model, deep sequencing revealed an intestinal bacterial diversity exceeding that of the human gut by a factor of two to three. The transplantation produced a marked increase in the microbial diversity of the recipients, which stemmed from both capture of new phylotypes and increase in abundance of others. However, when transplantation was performed after antibiotic intake, the resulting state simply combined the reshaping effects of the individual treatments (including the reduced diversity from antibiotic treatment alone). Therefore, lowering the recipient bacterial load by antibiotic intake prior to transplantation did not increase establishment of the donor phylotypes, although some dominant lineages still transferred successfully. Remarkably, all of these effects were observed after 1 mo of treatment and persisted after 3 mo. Overall, our results indicate that the indigenous gut microbial composition is more plastic that previously anticipated. However, since antibiotic pretreatment counterintuitively interferes with the establishment of an exogenous community, such plasticity is likely conditioned more by the altered microbiome gut homeostasis caused by antibiotics than by the primary bacterial loss
See my post on the first page (or 2nd?) of this thread. Legitimate studies have shown that introducing -- giving patients parasites, or other gut bugs -- instead of killing them off, has resulted in improvements, and even cures of certain problems.
Here's an article discussing IBD and Chron's:
"About 10 years after improved hygiene and deworming efforts reduced worms in a given population, I.B.D. rates jumped. Weinstock had his hypothesis: after a long coevolution, the human immune system came to depend on the worms for proper functioning. When cleaner conditions and new medicines evicted the worms from our bodies, the immune system went out of kilter. “Hygiene has made our lives better,” says Weinstock, now at Tufts University. “But in the process of eliminating exposure to the 10 or 20 things that can make us sick, we’re also eliminating exposure to things that make us well.”
Good questions, Nielk...
I'm not an expert in this subject, but my understanding is as follows...
The purpose of a faecal transplant, is purely to introduce healthy colon bacteria into our colons/gut...
This is very similar to taking probiotics, except that the bacteria will be naturally occurring, and obviously the method is very different.
Once the feaces has been implanted, then the beneficial bacteria in it will take residence in your own colon, and start to feed on your own waste.
The implanted feacal matter will soon be expelled (i.e you will go to toilet), leaving the healthy bacteria behind, residing and thriving in your own colon.
I think that's the theory behind it, anyway.
Hydrogen sulfide produced by streptococcus and enterococcus bacteria has been implicated by Dr. Kenny De Meirleir as a contributing factor in ME/CFS. This therapy may prove very helpful for people who have problems with these bacteria. My wife is XMRV positive and has an overgrowth of streptococcus in her gut. The same stool test showed she had low levels of secretory Iga in her stool. Here is a link with some info about secretory Iga: http://www.articlesbase.com/health-articles/autism-treatment-secretory-iga-immune-function-and-the-mucosal-barrier-1567239.html
Dr. Kenny De Meirlier also found people infected with XMRV have lower Iga levels. This could mean that XMRV is suppressing the immune system’s ability to control the balance of intestinal flora, leading to the overgrowth of bacteria like streptococcus and enterococcus that poison the body with hydrogen sulfide.
"But its not like they put it on a plate and have you eat it. You dont ever see or smell a thing.
"People will have a blood transplant or a kidney transplant whats the difference with this?"
Here is the procedure:
They insert a tube down to the gut (you don't even get to see anything). It's no worse than other treatments. Please don't make this into a joke thread. On a case basis it has worked for CFS, RA and MS. That is really great. The fact that it works in these conditions which I have for long suspected have a common nominator (such as clostridum bacteria or other microbes in the gut) makes the case reports more valid to me.
Excerpt from the NewScientist artice:
Over the past decade, Borody has noticed that some of his patients also see improvements in symptoms of their other diseases, including Parkinson's, multiple sclerosis (MS), chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) and rheumatoid arthritis. "Some CFS patients, given a faecal transplant, will regain their energy quite dramatically, and their foggy brains will get better," says Borody. (my bold)
If I lived in the UK, I would defiantly try this. The scientists who published the study showing it could cure 11 out of 15 people with c. difficile are from the UK.
If we were suffering from headaches or influenza I might laugh at people trying to change the content of their intestines. But when it's a disease which has totally destroyed everything for me, it's a totally different story. Please let's make this thread about the treatment, it's effects, and why it might/might not work.
More than 90 per cent of C. difficile patients are cured by fecal transplants, studies suggest
And: Fecal transplants have become the first-line treatment for chronic recurrent C. difficile in Scandinavia. As well, more and more doctors are using it in the United States.
Calgary physician Dr. Tom Louie, head of infection control at Foothills Hospital, is one of the few physicians in Canada who treats patients with chronic C. difficile with fecal transplants, or fecal therapy. He has done 38 procedures to date.
Much enjoying the humour here but with such a list - Parkinsons,MS,Rheum Arth, Diabetes,CFS,Autoimmunities - it's pretty obvious the correct functioning of the gut is far more important/fundamental with wider disease processes than was previously realised. Major organ.