Extreme sensitivity to MSG causing severe insomnia - any ideas?

[bertiedog]

Yes I also take betaine HCL with each meal and I had cut back on the vitamin C but the diarrhea still went on. It got really bad last week when a gut bug was going around that I caught. It sort of finished me off and I couldn't seem to recover till I stopped all coconut products and milk and started the herbs and probiotics. Also I responded well to activated charcoal, wish I had known about that earlier.

I think I have turned the corner now but don't want to go through that again!

Pam

 

[Mary]

@bertiedog - Hi Pam, I think it might be good to tell Dr. Myhill about your reaction to the high dose vitamin C, you wouldn't have to have an appointment, just send an e-mail or something. I'm hoping she would appreciate that information and want to learn more about it (in an ideal world! )

I do hope the worst is over for you!

 

[bertiedog]

@bertiedog - Hi Pam, I think it might be good to tell Dr. Myhill about your reaction to the high dose vitamin C, you wouldn't have to have an appointment, just send an e-mail or something. I'm hoping she would appreciate that information and want to learn more about it (in an ideal world! )

I do hope the worst is over for you!

I did do this but she didn't seem to take it seriously. Just said to stay on Keto and carry on with the vitamin C! Not impressed!

Pam

 

[Mary]

I did do this but she didn't seem to take it seriously. Just said to stay on Keto and carry on with the vitamin C! Not impressed!

Dang! I'm sorry to hear that! I bet if she had experienced what you did she'd take it a lot more seriously --- that's too bad.

 

[Carnation4000]

@Mary - yup - we're all so different. Makes figuring all this out such a nightmare! I'm being very careful with Taurine but so far it's great for me. Good thing since I can't take Valerian. Good luck with the magnesium! I would be very interested to know how magnesium chloride works for you. Fingers crossed for you!

@bertiedog Totally feel your pain! We just want to feel normal not suffer through an unrelenting misery - or unfeeling MDs. Hope you are feeling better soon!!

 

[Carnation4000]

Have to mention a possibly positive development. I know all this hypersensitivity is causing inflammation. So, I decided to try an infrared sauna. I've used them before, and I always feel great but I wasn't sure if this would help with the whole glutamate hypersensitivity issue but figured it couldn't hurt.

Wow! My glutamate levels seem to have remained pretty low for the last few days. I've made GABA OK and been able to sleep. It also greatly reduced my histamine levels (from the heat, if nothing else). Whoo Hoo!!! I actually feel hopeful and am thinking about buying an infrared sauna blanket.

 

[Carnation4000]

@bertiedog Pam - any chance your high Vitamin C dose is causing iron overload? I thought about this thread while reading this article: http://freetheanimal.com/2015/06/enrichment-theory-everything.html

 

[bertiedog]

@bertiedog Pam - any chance your high Vitamin C dose is causing iron overload? I thought about this thread while reading this article: http://freetheanimal.com/2015/06/enrichment-theory-everything.html

I don't think it is anything to do with iron in my case as my ferritin is always on the low side and I have never had a high iron level in my life. I know some alternative type doctors don't like high dose vitamin c because it can make you hang onto iron.

My gut is hugely improved since stopping it nearly 2 weeks ago. I have been taking oregano oil and olive leaf extract plus S Bollard and L Reuteri and L Planetarium. Also had to switch to organic soya in my tea as I cannot tolerate the organic dairy milk I used to be fine with before I started this protocol.

Pam

 

[Mary]

Wow! My glutamate levels seem to have remained pretty low for the last few days. I've made GABA OK and been able to sleep. It also greatly reduced my histamine levels (from the heat, if nothing else). Whoo Hoo!!! I actually feel hopeful and am thinking about buying an infrared sauna blanket.

That's amazing! I'm so glad to hear it. I'm curious - was this a near infrared or far infrared sauna? I'm assuming far infrared, is that correct?

Some years ago I used a far infrared sauna at my chiropractor's office and had a very strong detox reaction -it lasted about 3 days so didn't go back. But I don't detox nearly as much as I used to - I think my detox pathways are in much better shape than before. Did you detox at all from the sauna?

One last question - how do you know what your histamine levels are and how did you know that the sauna lowered them? I have no idea how people determine their histamine levels, short of doing blood work.

If this keeps working for you, I would definitely give it a try myself!

 

[Carnation4000]

I don't think it is anything to do with iron in my case as my ferritin is always on the low side and I have never had a high iron level in my life. I know some alternative type doctors don't like high dose vitamin c because it can make you hang onto iron.

My gut is hugely improved since stopping it nearly 2 weeks ago. I have been taking oregano oil and olive leaf extract plus S Bollard and L Reuteri and L Planetarium. Also had to switch to organic soya in my tea as I cannot tolerate the organic dairy milk I used to be fine with before I started this protocol.

Pam

Oh well...just a thought. But so glad to hear you are doing better!!! That is the important thing!! I so totally understand your frustration with that feeling of .....well I used to be able to eat/ drink/ take this without a problem. Arghhhh!

 

[Carnation4000]

@Mary Yup - Far Infrared sauna. If nothing else, they sure help with inflammation - as long as no worse symptoms pop up like herx - yuk.

1 - Detox - Like you I used to have some bad detox symptoms but my pathways seem much better these days. I know anytime I've used an Infrared sauna, I felt so great afterwards that I must have benefited by some level of detoxification. But no bad reactions....Oh - and I sweat so profusely, I must be getting rid of some toxins. FYI - I've only been trying Infrared saunas for about the last 18 months. I'm planning to use one again in the next few days.

2 - Histamine - a few reactions hint to me that my systemic histamine is high - 1 feeling of all-over heat, flushing, and sweating and 2 wakefulness and insomnia and 3 some degree of nasal or skin itchiness. I have to come clean and admit I use self-muscle testing to help me confirm my suspicions. Not sure how you feel about it but I find it so helpful.

I'll post next time I use a sauna. But have to say, I'm feeling better than a couple of weeks ago. Not normal but better. Who knew that feeling just my plain ole abnormal normal was so great?? SHEESH!!!

 

[Mary]

I have to come clean and admit I use self-muscle testing to help me confirm my suspicions. Not sure how you feel about it but I find it so helpful.

I did a post all about muscle testing and how much it's helped me a few months ago .... a few people said I was brave for doing it! Seriously, it has helped me so much, I know I would be much worse off without it. So I'm glad to hear you do it too!

Thanks for all the info - I don't think I have a problem with histamine based on your symptoms and someone else to whom I posed the same question. But I have a lot of other things going on so I may try far infrared again. It hit me so hard last time with detoxing, but again, I detox very little nowadays.

 

[Carnation4000]

@Mary So glad to know a fellow user!!

Almost every time I explain it to someone, I get the "oh I see...she's a nut" look

But, like you said, it has helped me sooo much!! It helps incredibly with taking supplements - keeps me from taking too much or too little. And so many other uses too - just so helpful!!

 

[Mary]

Almost every time I explain it to someone, I get the "oh I see...she's a nut" look

Exactly!

 

[datadragon]

Hi nuts

P5P is synthesized primarily in the liver from pyridoxine (B6) with the help of enzymes. This requires Vitamin B2, Zinc, and Magnesium. P5P is associated with numerous enzymes, many of which are involved in amino acid metabolism. These can be low or deficient keeping the normal conversion from occuring. This process produces the neurotransmitters dopamine, noradrenaline, Gaba, as well as the haemoglobin in red blood cells. B6, Zinc, and Mag are all also part of the process for Serotonin/Melatonin as well as stomach acid when goes low once zinc/mag goes low then potassium. A high B6 level indicates you are likely not converting it properly, and should use supplements containing P5P form.

High copper levels interfere with the body's most abundant inhibitory neurotransmitter Gamma Amino Butyric Acid (GABA). GABA provides a sense of calm and relaxation in the body and functions together with Glutamate, the body's main excitatory neurotransmitter, to provide a balance between excitation and inhibition of nerve cells. Excessive copper levels disrupt the Vitamin B6 dependant enzyme glutamate decarboxylase, inhibiting the conversion of Glutamate into GABA. This Glutamate/GABA imbalance results in high glutamate levels, resulting in impaired speech, aggressive behaviour, intense irritablity, anxiety, inflammation of the gastrointestinal tract (GIT), and eventually neuronal destruction. So it can be early on with B6 not converting, then worse as copper can build up. Serum copper may remain high due to intake, Ceruloplasmin (Usable copper) will however be lower range or deficient upon burnout due to no longer being attached well to ceruloplasmin.

If you have twitching, muscle spasms, restless legs etc then it can be you have a need for more magnesium. A racing mind is a good indicator actually that copper may be currently high compared to zinc (copper serum to zinc plasma will at least show you whats going on that specific day), and likely may be starting to become copper toxic and depleting zinc and need more zinc and mag if your still up and about and not in full burnout.

 

[Carnation4000]

@Mary Hope you're doing well! I haven't been around as I was just worn out and discouraged but I have some good news!

So, the hypersensitivity got worse, to the point of rashes on my abdomen. Yikes! It reminded me of my husband who breaks out in similar rashes ever since he had chemotherapy for cancer years ago. Using my self muscle testing (of course - ha ha), I started going through every organ of my body, asking my body WTF - well, not exactly that but you get the idea. Everything pointed to my liver. Aha!

Went nuts doing research, of course. I think one or more of the amino acids in the collagen powder I was taking caused some degree of liver damage. Added one new supplement and restarted or boosted others. Here's what I'm doing:

- Lemon water first thing in the morning
- Continue with Milk Thistle
- Restarted Artichoke Extract (some days)
- Started taking Jarrow's SOD - Extramel version which is a melon extract. It is very healing to the liver. This is the main new thing I'm doing, and I think the #1 thing that has really helped me!
Also
- Eating more citrus fruit, especially grapefruit
- Bumped up my glutathione levels by restarting S-Acetyl Glutathione

I have actually eaten a few Doritos (as a test) without a problem. I'm going slow and trying not to overtax my liver but let it heal. I have been able to re-start Acetyl L Carnitine which helps the brain as well as helps the the liver to process fats . I had to quit taking it because it raised my Glutamate like crazy and caused insomnia. Now I can take it without a problem. I restarted it by taking 1/4 capsule and slowly worked up to 1 full capsule.

I had numerous bad reactions to restaurant food, even at restaurants that specialize in fresh, healthy food. Must have been some MSG in there. But since starting my new protocol - no more bad reactions. This has been such a relief and a small miracle for me. I'm sleeping better because my Glutamate is staying pretty low.

I hope this is helpful!
Trish

 

[Mary]

Hi @Carnation4000 - good to hear from you! I'm really glad you've made improvements re the msg!

I think one or more of the amino acids in the collagen powder I was taking caused some degree of liver damage

What amino acids do you think caused liver damage? TBH, I've never heard of any amino acids doing this but of course that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

Some 15 years ago my liver was messed up, overloaded with toxins - I felt sick, fluish, sluggish, had trouble eating before noon, and it was my chiropractor who does muscle testing who found my liver was toxic. I'd had heavy exposure to chemical solvents at a job when I was 19 and apparently they were a lot of the problem. I did a liver detox under the chiro's supervision using Standard Process products - it took 30 days, was unpleasant, I felt like crap for 30 days, but afterwards my digestion was so much better. I also learned I needed to take betaine HCL with pepsin with meals. I also started taking milk thistle, and my liver has been good ever since.

So it sounds like you're on a good protocol for your liver. I found lemon juice helpful too, as well as dandelion tea and milk thistle of course. That's interesting about the SOD . I took a SOD supplement some years ago and didn't notice any benefit but I don't remember the brand, and I've since learned that not all brands are created equal! I may consider taking it again

You mention acetyl-l-carnitine helps the liver process fats - I didn't know this - great information! One thing you might check is to see if you are low in stomach acid. This is very common in ME/CFS. And taking betaine HCL with pepsin (the pepsin helps digest protein) helped my digestion a LOT. A simple test to check stomach acid is dissolve 1/4 - 1/2 teaspoon of baking soda in 8 ounces of water and drink on an empty stomach. Empty is important because the baking soda will neutralize stomach acid. Anyways, if you don't burp within a few minutes of drinking this, it can indicate low stomach acid.

Bumped up my glutathione levels by restarting S-Acetyl Glutathione

This is something I keep meaning to do and never really get around to. I will add it to my regimen.

Anyways, I'm very glad to hear you're doing better! and thanks so much for the update

Mary

 

[Carnation4000]

Anyways, I'm very glad to hear you're doing better! and thanks so much for the update

Thanks Mary! Yeah...I've been taking digestive enzymes with HCL for years, so I know my stomach acid is OK. But thanks for the suggestion! My naturopath said I had a genetic issue involving metabolization of fats but I forgot which mutation he mentioned. I took notes but there were a lot of problematic SNPs -sigh-

I used a different type of SOD before but, like you, didn't notice any real difference. But this Extramel version has definitely helped me get over this hypersensitivity. My body says it is the main reason I'm doing better so I'll go with that - ha ha!

I know my levels of glutathione were low. I was trying to get my body to make its own but I don't think I can make enough on a daily basis. Oh well. I used to take liposomal glutathione but really prefer the S Acetyl version. If nothing else, it can travel with you - yay.

Oh - I ended up buying an Infrared Sauna Blanket - much cheaper than an actual sauna. I love it!! My husband maybe uses it more than I do. I'm definitely still a believer in using it for detox

 

[Carnation4000]

@Mary Hey Mary - say, I was looking at Datis Kharrazian's website and thought about you and this thread. This article, "Oral Tolerance Part I: Sensitive to multiple foods and not getting better? Here’s why" provides real food for thought! Have to say, I have his book, "Why Isn't My Brain Working?", just haven't really read it. I've skimmed it but I think I really need to READ it! Ha ha...

Anyway, here is the link to the page I mentioned: https://drknews.com/food-sensitivity-oral-tolerance/

Hope all is well!

 

[Mary]

Hi @Carnation4000 - thanks for the info! The only thing i know I'm sensitive to is MSG (and its relatives).

You know, I haven't had MSG-related insomnia for quite awhile. I think a large part is I've probably gotten very good at avoiding anything with MSG or one of its relatives. But I have had mayonnaise with dinner, e.g., on vegies, and it has MSG (they put it in EVERYTHING - INCLUDING HORSERADISH! which of course needs more flavoring, right?)

So I haven't done an acid test which would be to have some soy sauce or something similar. Overall I'm sleeping better, I think having to do in large part with magnolia extract from Bulk Supplements - very potent, much better than any other brand I've tried.

Still crash like clockwork unfortunately, but am increasing my BCAAs to see if that will help, too soon to tell --

BTW, here's a very interesting post about taking a SOD supplement sublingually: https://forums.phoenixrising.me/ind...uperoxide-dismutase.58018/page-3#post-1001495

I never would have thought of taking it sublingually and it's now on my list of things to try (have a backlog of those). I wonder if the s-acetyl-glutathione would work better if taken sublingually?

Hope you're doing okay!