Extreme heat intolerance - I crashed hard - can pregabalin be responsible for this?

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

@YippeeKi YOW !! your brain fog is finally better now? ;-) I look forward if our discussion will continue.

I'm going to do my best here, but cant promise anything new ....

- excitotoxicity?

I think you've pretty much established that some of your symptoms seem to correlate with what most people who've experienced it call 'excitotoxicity'. which refers to a condition where GABA and glutamate are out of balance, and the NMDA receptors and AMPA are working overtime.

One of the more baffling and irritating things involved in all this is that glutamine, or glutamic acid, supposedly converts to both, or either, GABA and glutamate, depending on which neurotransmitter needs the conversion most. For some reason, in systems that are out of whack, the glutamine converts solely to glutamate, gradually eroding the necessary balance between the two primary neurotransmitters and eventually leading to a state of anxiety, inability to concentrate, insomnia, restless sleep, etc.

- gaba/glutamate or any more neurotransmitter problem? (I will do more Mg + Vit C...maybe better IV Saline + MgSO4 + Vit C?)

In working with magnesium, here is what finally worked for me when nothing else did.

• First, I finally found that the only form of magnesium that worked for me was mag glycinate, sometimes called chelated magnesium. It took quite a while to determine that, and I'd almost given up of mag ....
• Then I discovered that taking a couple or three large doses a day was useless ....
• After that, and out of desperation, I tried a dosing schedule of my own devising, which in my case and due to the intense anxiety and panic that I was suffering, along with crippling insomnia and almost total lack of focus, turned out to be 50 mgs every 40-60 mins, with Vit C (about 250 mgs) and 0.25 mgs of melatonin every few doses...
• It took a couple of weeks before I was sure that it was doing something, but once it started kicking in (apparently I was badly deficient in mag, and the initial doses were being sucked up by every system and enzyme conversion that had been deprived for so long), the improvement tho gradual, was undeniable ...

So instead of just taking mag, try to determine what form of mag works best for you, then try various dosing schedules. Mine was extreme, but it worked for me, and in spite of sometimes exceeding 2000-2400 mgs of mag a day, there were no side effects, not even the dread diarrhetic effect mag is so famous for (tho mag gly is the form that least produces that effect)....

I'm not sure that MgSO4 is the best form for you, since the hydroxide form is most likely to produce a cathartic bowel effect. Sometimes simpler is bester. Bestest. Best.

 

[Learner1]

Hi all, I tried to read many documents/studies that might help uncover the problem.
I came to the conclusion my heat intolerance problem is probably something like "autoimmune dysautonomia".

Yes, heat intolerance is a symptom of autoimmune dysautonomia. As my POTS has improved, my heat intolerance has gone away (I still hate days over 30°C, but I don't wilt/crash.)

I am mainly looking for answers to these questions:
- autoantibodies? (can bc007 help?)
- excitotoxicity?
- gaba/glutamate or any more neurotransmitter problem? (I will do more Mg + Vit C...maybe better IV Saline + MgSO4 + Vit C?)
- myelin disorders? (I bought ARA290 yesterday)

BC007, apharesis, IVIG, Rituximab, and symptomatic solutions (Mestinon, beta blockers, Huperzine A, etc) can help autoimmune antibodies.

This excellent article discusses substances that reduce excititoxicity and damage.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3307240/

Gamma tocopherols, tocotrienols, magnesium, curcumin, resveratrol, EGCG, fish oil, riboflavin, and nicotinamide mononucleotide all have roles, and there are many more - I've used all of them in my recovery.

LDN has a role, too.

This gives ways of improving myelin.
https://www.optimallivingdynamics.com/blog/25-proven-ways-to-promote-the-regeneration-of-myelin

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

Gamma tocopherols, tocotrienols, magnesium, curcumin, resveratrol, EGCG, fish oil, riboflavin, and nicotinamide mononucleotide all have roles, and there are many more - I've used all of them in my recovery.

I had some gnarly-bad reactions to a lot of these, especially EGCG, fish oil, all forma of Vit E, and riboflavin. Once I stabilized the neuro imbalance, I was able to add in turmeric/curcumin (I prefer a mix of non-standardized along with the strong standardized version of any substance, just in case, you know, they might have missed something important in their rush to produce).

I've recently been able to add in green tea, so little by little, as we heal, things can crawl back to semi-normal ....

 

[kewia]

Once I stabilized the neuro imbalance,

How did you do that?
I also can't tolerate many of them.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

I also can't tolerate many of them.

Many of what??? Not sure what you mean, but then I'm not having my best brain day. Help !!!

 

[kewia]

Many of what???

These:

especially EGCG, fish oil, all forma of Vit E, and riboflavin.

Therefore, it would interest me what you did for your HPA axis in order to tolerate it.
Thanks in advance.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

These:

AHA !!! Now I get it, and thanks for the clarification ....

At the time I really didnt know what I was dealing with, I only knew that I was gradually overtaken by serious, non-stop, wrenching, wracking panic/anxiety attacks ver a period of about 1 month. They went on endlessly, smeties for as long as 19 or 20 hours. Sleep was a distant memory. Two trips to the ER (I really thought I must have been having a heart attack..... keep in mind, this was a year before I found PR) convinced me that there was no help there.

So I started researching, during the rare days when I got a few hours when I wasnt crumpled in a shaking, quivering gasping ball, and when I had a marginal amount of brain function. It was slow hard work, I didn't know what I was dealing with or what had triggered it, I didn't know what I was looking for, all I knew was that all I had was me, and there was no help coming from any source available to me at that time.

I'd developed reavtions to almost every food, every supp, every vitamin and mineral, everything that Id been taking for pretty much all my life without incident, so those strange reactions were where I started.

Cutting to the chase here, it became evident that at least part of what I was dealing with was some sort of abnormality in brain function and what appeared to be an imbalance between GABA and glutamate, and overactive NMDA receptors. From there I moved on to the only solution that I could figure out from the various researches I'd read, and that was magnesium, and a lot of it. Magnesium jams a block in NMDA and AMPA receptors, and Vit C assists that.

I had nothing else, and the only other option that I could see was either a slow descent into what seemed like inevitable madness, or something even more permanent. WHen I say I was in protracted, endless, misery, I'm not exaggerating.

I settled on MAGNESIUM GLYCINATE, after testing out several others. I started with several large doses 2 times a day, and when that did nothing, boosted it to about 300 mgs 3 times a day. Nothing. I tried numerous other variations, but none of them did squat.

Finally in desperation I tried small doses at very tight intervals, 50 mgs roughly every 45 to 60 minutes. Then I added in about 250 mgs of Vit C, and 0.25 mgs of melatonin every 3rd or 4th dose. It took a minute (about 3 weeks), but gradually I sensed a lessening in the intensity of the attacks, if not the frequency. Then it seemed like they were getting a little less frequent. I kept up the tight dosing schedule, smetimes taking as uch as 2000 -2400 mgs of mag gly a day. There were no ill effects.

The short version (yeah, like any of this qualifies as 'short' .... sorry .... just dont have the brain reserves this AM to edit it) is that over a period of about 3 months, there was definite improvement. By about the 4th or 5th month, that improvement increased. By about 7 months, I was down to one or two much milder panic attacks a day, and at some point after that, I reached that magical day when I realized, a little more than half-way thru it, that I hadn't had ANY panic attack at all.

I kept up the 50 mgs dosing but at much wider intervals, as a sort of maintenance program. Down the last 2 years I've been able to slowly trial the dozens and dozens of things I had to cut out, and have been able to add almost all of them back in some in small or weak doses. I can eat an almost normal diet now, and I even was able to add back weakly brewed coffee with some Droste cocoa and a little stevia in it.

When stressors hit, I have to up the magnesium briefly to combat any anxiety, but other than that, I'm so much better that if the previous me saw the current me, she wouldn't believe it.

There are days when I don't.

Which is why I haven't given up on working my way out of ME, somehow, some way. Probably some weird way. Some day ....

Don't give in, don't give out, don't give up ....

 

[MartinK]

great links @Learner1 - I tried a lot from this tips, but I've probably never had lithium.
a good reason to look at my blood and hair tests results to see what my lithium levels are.

@YippeeKi YOW !! I bought looot of Magnesium last week... several forms, mostly glycinate
I will try to increase the doses and test what works best for me.
in the past i only had diarrhea from oxide and citrate.

btw. I tolerate EGCG, fish oil and vit. E without problems.
I also tried high doses EGCG from Joshua Leisk protocol in past without problem.
And Im green tea lover. I drink almost 2 liters of green tea a day in traditional chinese gong fu style.
I still believe it has many benefits for me as well.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

@YippeeKi YOW !! I bought looot of Magnesium last week... several forms, mostly glycinate
I will try to increase the doses and test what works best for me.

Keep in mind that what worked for me were the small, frequent doses, not larger ones. What worked for you may be different, and I agree .... you should trial all the diff types, and at different dose levels and intervals ....

And Im green tea lover. I drink almost 2 liters of green tea a day

Can only do you good. I was just recently able to add a little matcha back in, and it's had a subtle but beneficial effect ....

 

[triffid113]

AHA !!! Now I get it, and thanks for the clarification ....

At the time I really didnt know what I was dealing with, I only knew that I was gradually overtaken by serious, non-stop, wrenching, wracking panic/anxiety attacks ver a period of about 1 month. They went on endlessly, smeties for as long as 19 or 20 hours. Sleep was a distant memory. Two trips to the ER (I really thought I must have been having a heart attack..... keep in mind, this was a year before I found PR) convinced me that there was no help there.

So I started researching, during the rare days when I got a few hours when I wasnt crumpled in a shaking, quivering gasping ball, and when I had a marginal amount of brain function. It was slow hard work, I didn't know what I was dealing with or what had triggered it, I didn't know what I was looking for, all I knew was that all I had was me, and there was no help coming from any source available to me at that time.

I'd developed reavtions to almost every food, every supp, every vitamin and mineral, everything that Id been taking for pretty much all my life without incident, so those strange reactions were where I started.

Cutting to the chase here, it became evident that at least part of what I was dealing with was some sort of abnormality in brain function and what appeared to be an imbalance between GABA and glutamate, and overactive NMDA receptors. From there I moved on to the only solution that I could figure out from the various researches I'd read, and that was magnesium, and a lot of it. Magnesium jams a block in NMDA and AMPA receptors, and Vit C assists that.

I had nothing else, and the only other option that I could see was either a slow descent into what seemed like inevitable madness, or something even more permanent. WHen I say I was in protracted, endless, misery, I'm not exaggerating.

I settled on MAGNESIUM GLYCINATE, after testing out several others. I started with several large doses 2 times a day, and when that did nothing, boosted it to about 300 mgs 3 times a day. Nothing. I tried numerous other variations, but none of them did squat.

Finally in desperation I tried small doses at very tight intervals, 50 mgs roughly every 45 to 60 minutes. Then I added in about 250 mgs of Vit C, and 0.25 mgs of melatonin every 3rd or 4th dose. It took a minute (about 3 weeks), but gradually I sensed a lessening in the intensity of the attacks, if not the frequency. Then it seemed like they were getting a little less frequent. I kept up the tight dosing schedule, smetimes taking as uch as 2000 -2400 mgs of mag gly a day. There were no ill effects.

The short version (yeah, like any of this qualifies as 'short' .... sorry .... just dont have the brain reserves this AM to edit it) is that over a period of about 3 months, there was definite improvement. By about the 4th or 5th month, that improvement increased. By about 7 months, I was down to one or two much milder panic attacks a day, and at some point after that, I reached that magical day when I realized, a little more than half-way thru it, that I hadn't had ANY panic attack at all.

I kept up the 50 mgs dosing but at much wider intervals, as a sort of maintenance program. Down the last 2 years I've been able to slowly trial the dozens and dozens of things I had to cut out, and have been able to add almost all of them back in some in small or weak doses. I can eat an almost normal diet now, and I even was able to add back weakly brewed coffee with some Droste cocoa and a little stevia in it.

When stressors hit, I have to up the magnesium briefly to combat any anxiety, but other than that, I'm so much better that if the previous me saw the current me, she wouldn't believe it.

There are days when I don't.

Which is why I haven't given up on working my way out of ME, somehow, some way. Probably some weird way. Some day ....

Don't give in, don't give out, don't give up ....

This sounds to me in some ways like what I had when I turned 50... I suddenly had panic attacks forever...I felt bombarded by sensations I could not dial down or filter out so I could not leave the house except b6 looking at my shoes...the world made me dizzy and shakey and faint...not that looking at my shoes made me feel good, just able to get by. I did never think a vitamin or food caused it, although I have many allergies... but nothing had changed but my age. What I did for my hpa axis after m7ch frantic reading was take 50mg DHEA, and I found the problem, fir me, went away in 15 minutes. This was surprising but in retrosoect I had adrenal problems my whole life... very bad allergies,, low blood sugar,, low tolerance for stress., Chinese Restaurant syndrome.

It is interesting that you fixed yourself with magnesium because that suggests an NMDA problem... with calcium getting into NMDA receptors in the brain that are supposed to be protected from that by magnesium. So MSG, fir 8nstabce, rips the magnesium off the NMDA receptor so they are open for things to get in to brain cells that shouldn't. There are a lot of additives (/foods?) that can cause this and there are also things that can help, estrogen being one. I take estrogen replacement so chinese restaurant syndrome is no longer an issue for me.

There was a guy here who had a huge problem with this and was pursuing it with a doctor. Maybe he could provide more help. Idk if the problem you have is this but it might be worth looking in to. If it sounds like this is you, then knowing to look up nmda and magnesium etc might give you more info and options

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

It is interesting that you fixed yourself with magnesium because that suggests an NMDA problem..

NMDA, APA and glutamate/GABA imbalance ...

with calcium getting into NMDA receptors in the brain that are supposed to be protected from that by magnesium.

NMDA and glutamate receptors are calcium ion-controlled channels, so yeah.

Magnesium doesnt protect, as much as it blocks the NMDA receptor so that calcium and glutamate are unable to utilize them.

So MSG, fir 8nstabce, rips the magnesium off the NMDA receptor so they are open

MSG is monosodium GLUTAMATE, and in a system that's already battling neurotransmitter imbalances, the glutamate will tip the balance in the absolutely worst direction, overwhelming everything else by sheer force of numbers, as it were. Calcium doesnt rip the magnesium off the receptor, it just fills it up so the magnesium has no way in.

If it sounds like this is you, then knowing to look up nmda and magnesium etc might give you more info and options

Been there, done that, which is how I worked my way around to magnesium, melatonin, and Vit C as the solutions, which in my case, they def were ....

I think I'm familiar with the thread that you mentioned, and that I posted all the info I'd dug up during my own battles with this, but thank you for the suggestion. There are several threads on this topic (which is how I worked my way around to thinking thst GABA/glutamate imbalances seem to be a part of ME), so it might have been a different one ....

UNSOLICITED INPUT, APOLOGIES UP FRONT IF YOU ALREADY KNOW THIS ...

• If you just hit the 'Reply' button at the bottom of someone's post, the whole flucking thing will appear in your reply window.
• If you highlight a portion of it, a pop-up will appear just below the end of the highlighted portion, with a choice of either 'Reply' or 'Quote'. If there's only ne thing you want to respond to, click on 'Reply', and you'll be shifted down to your reply window with that portion already there for your response
• If you have more than one thing you want to respond to, highlight the first potion then hit 'Quote' when the pop-up appears, and a banner at the top of the page wll let you know that your quote has been noted.
• Continue highlighting the portions you want to respond to, hitting quote til you're done.
• Shift down to your response/reply window, where you'll see a prompt at the far left re posting your quotes.
• Click on that and a large window will open with everything that you quoted in it, and you can delete any that you dot need and change the position of any of the quotes that you want either closer to the top or whatver ...
• When you're done, drop to the bottom of that large window, and hit 'Post Quotes' ....
• You'll be shifted to your reply window, with everything you quoted already in it and ready for your responses ....

Hope this helps ....

EDIT .... for the usual clutter of typos, knowing that even so, Ive missed at least 3 or 4 ..... typing isnt my best thing ....

 

[lenora]

Hi @triffid113. If you're about 50, your heat intolerance may be due (at least in part) to menopause or post-menopausal symptoms. To be honest, I can't sort out what causes my problems these days (I'm 75), only that I've been having them since I was 40 yrs. old (menopause for me). My oldest daughter has the same problem, although she's doing better. The youngest is fine....but she's very athletic. I suffer from severe panic attacks and anxiety has probably been with me my entire life, but was definitely worsened by menopause.

My BP also did a complete flip then....whereas no one could believe how low it was, it became high. A constant yo-yo and I eat a very healthy diet.

Be careful with the mg. because you can overdo it and there will be problems (as in all things). I've cut way back on mine and life is better for it. Too much of anything, etc. Yours, Lenora

 

[triffid113]

Oddly, I just ran into this in a study:

Q Rev Drug Metab Drug Interact

. 1982;4(4):289-331.
doi: 10.1515/dmdi.1982.4.4.289.
Drug-pyridoxal phosphate interactions
M Ebadi, C F Gessert, A Al-Sayegh

The acute ingestion of excessive monosodium glutamate will, in some individuals, cause a group of symptoms including among others headache, weakness, stiffness, and heartburn, collectively known as the 'Chinese Restaurant Syndrome.' [IMHO the symptoms feel life-threatening, not the namby-pamby stuff listed above] These symptoms can be prevented by prior supplementation with vitamin B6. The beneficial effect is ascribed to the correction of a deficiency in the activity of glutamic oxaloacetic transaminase, an enzyme that is dependent on pyridoxal phosphate.

Some interesting relationships are pointed out between vitamin B6, picolinic acid, and zinc. It is postulated that the intestinal absorption of zinc is facilitated by picolinic acid, a metabolite of tryptophan. The derivation of picolinic acid from tryptophan depends on the action of the enzyme kynureninase, which is dependent on pyridoxal phosphate; therefore, the adequate absorption of zinc is indirectly dependent on an adequate supply of vitamin B6. The formation of pyridoxal phosphate, on the other hand, appears to be indirectly dependent on Zn2++ . Note: I would not trust this source referring to B-6, but raher to a B-6 metabolite (such as P5P).

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

This was in a study of interest to me regarding picolinic acid improving zinc bioavailability. I have tremendous difficulties trying to get enough zinc. I resently resorted to phytase enzyme, which had a small, immediate effect - time will tell if it really does the job. I have much less energy w/o enough zinc (due, no doubt?, to thyroid) and it appears I need 2x as much zinc as anyone else to throw off a cold (enough to cause upset stomach). I had over a long time of zinc-supplemented stomach upset gotton my zinc levels up, only to have that effort decimated by covid. So now I am looking for an easier, less stomach-upsetting way. I read (in yet-another study) that zinc is more bioavailable in milk due to citrate (of which there is more in milk than calcium!). I remember when my mother switched to fat free milk (which I didn't like and wwouldn't drink), I lost all the enamel off the tops of my teeth (zinc deficiency). (My teeth are fine despite this). But goes to show I've had lifelong problems absorbing enough zinc.

Zinc is needed for thyroid, adrenal gland, pancrease (insulin), and high concentration in brain and optic tissues. It came to the fore recently for its role in immunity. My sister calimed she had an allergy to something in the covid avccine and she treated covid with idk-but-lots-of-stuff, prominently zinc. And came out fine. (Not a chance I was willing to take...even with shots covid really siphons off preciously garnered energy).

Idk if any of the above is of interest to anybody, but I thought I'd have a heart attack from Chinese Restaurant Syndrome and if this saves anyone from that, I have to pass it on.

 

[triffid113]

YippeeKIYOW, thanks for the info on quoting. I'll remember, next time. Lenora, thank you for your help. I don't actually recall saying I was heat intolerant so much as had anxiety issues - gone now. However, oddly, I do have a heat intolerance at a microbiotic level - I have a vitamin D receptor genetic defect...in heat, the D falls off the enzyme and needs to be replaced, so I take 50K of D/week. idk what constitues heat. On a macro level, I want to move south for the heat...just don't know where or how to swing it just yet. Going to check out New Mexico this winter...

 

[linusbert]

YippeeKIYOW, thanks for the info on quoting. I'll remember, next time. Lenora, thank you for your help. I don't actually recall saying I was heat intolerant so much as had anxiety issues - gone now. However, oddly, I do have a heat intolerance at a microbiotic level - I have a vitamin D receptor genetic defect...in heat, the D falls off the enzyme and needs to be replaced, so I take 50K of D/week. idk what constitues heat. On a macro level, I want to move south for the heat...just don't know where or how to swing it just yet. Going to check out New Mexico this winter...

did i get this right, you treated heat intolerance with 50k vitamin D / week?

 

[triffid113]

50,000 whatever units D. 5 10,000 pills per week, yes. This dose was determined for me by a very competent doc who checked my blood levels, prescribed, then rechecked in 3 months to determine if the dose was right.. Neither if my sisters' docs rechecked their dose. You can't control what you can't / don't measure.

 

[linusbert]

50,000 whatever units D. 5 10,000 pills per week, yes. This dose was determined for me by a very competent doc who checked my blood levels, prescribed, then rechecked in 3 months to determine if the dose was right.. Neither if my sisters' docs rechecked their dose. You can't control what you can't / don't measure.

so this 50k did help?

 

[triffid113]

Well, help with what? It definitely helped. I started this 20 years ago. I no longer crave calcium products like milk, cheese, etc which have a lot of calories and clog your arteries AND raise your blood pressure (mine is already genetically high). I no longer feel comatose or like my spine can't support my back (these were pms symptoms) despite taking a 3x day dose of calcium/magnesium citrate (which prolly did save my kidneys though). For the first time in my life I was able to balance my ph as tested by urine litmus test. It helped me significantly on my quest to be peaceful. Still a way to go, but no longer the excruciating jumble of nerves I was.

 

[linusbert]

Well, help with what? It definitely helped. I started this 20 years ago. I no longer crave calcium products like milk, cheese, etc which have a lot of calories and clog your arteries AND raise your blood pressure (mine is already genetically high). I no longer feel comatose or like my spine can't support my back (these were pms symptoms) despite taking a 3x day dose of calcium/magnesium citrate (which prolly did save my kidneys though). For the first time in my life I was able to balance my ph as tested by urine litmus test. It helped me significantly on my quest to be peaceful. Still a way to go, but no longer the excruciating jumble of nerves I was.

that milk and cheese raise your blood pressure and clog your artheries i believe to be a myth.
french and mediteraneans eat this foods for centuries and are among the healthiest. especially french in comparison to neighbours are much better in the diseases you describe - despite eating tons of cheese. on the contrary, milk and cheese products are rich in fat soluable vitamins , especially vitamin k2... which helps the arteries to stay free of calcification.

i meant did it help for your heat intolerance.

 

[Tsukareta]

I have this problem too when air temps hit about 26c or above, I think 'heat stress' is a normal concept in biology for healthy people, so it seems possible that perhaps we have a lower threshold than even people who don't do well when they travel to hotter climates.

If we have issues with normal state and adaptation of blood flow as per Systroms research, I think that could impact our ability to manage heat, plus if our metabolism is operating in a different mode, or we have some kind of low grade inflammation, it our bodies could be warmer and have trouble toning it down when needed.