Exercise does not help Depression, CBT/GET for ME is *DEAD!*

[INKY]

Dear Alex, 3619. regarding cognitive behaviour I feel the Doctors should take a look at how McEvedy and Beard arrived at the Royal Free Hospital, did not discommode the nurses who had been diagnosed as definitely ill. Upon finding anxiety among the remaining Nurses, declared it to be Hysteria,(Silly Women Syndrome). This then shoved into the Medical Text books as the proven cause, accepted so without peer review or question. Where it has remained and seems to be an anchor to nearly all Medical thinking since.
So who should be recognizing what?
Sorry I can't quite reason clearly round the glaring anomaly.
It appears to me that Mcevedy and Beard went in with their conclusion already made, begging the question of who directed them? And had the condition been recognized for what ti trully was.
In one of your previos inserts you mentioned misfolded proteins, what was your source? for this sounds like Alkylation the means whereby Organo-phosphates are mutagenic,
You also mentioned artificial intelligence , I gave my first computer terminal M.E. by loading several anti virals!!!!!! It came without paperwork and all these windows kept appearing your computer is at risk if you don't load:-

 

[alex3619]

Hi INKY, KDM (Kenny de Meirleir) has repeatedly found misfolded proteins, though he mistakenly called them prions at one point. As patients improve the quantity of these proteins declines. This is not published I think, and so is not replicated, but it makes sense (not that making sense means it must be right).I think a patent was filed on this at one point?

Yes, the 1970 paper http://www.mecfsforums.com/wiki/Royal_Free_Epidemic_of_1955#McEvedy_.26_Beard is a problem. This was the second time ME was reclassified as psych. Neurasthenia, which was originally almost a clone of ME definitions, was reclassified. Then later came CFS. This is a repeating pattern. Without indisputable biomarkers they will keep trying to do this.

It doesn't seem to bother them that there is no objective evidence of hysteria, and any diagnosis relies on the logical fallacy called the psychogenic inference.

Hmm, some of the free "antivirals" on the web are actually viruses. You then get lots of nasty messages to caugh up money. They fill up the screen. Its a virus based scam.

Bye, Alex

 

[Calathea]

I've skimmed this thread, and it seems to be covering other ground by now, but to get back to the original post, I wouldn't trust any article by the BBC on this subject, as their medical reporting is notoriously poor. Their previous article on depression and exercise concluded that exercise was indeed an effective treatment for depression, based on a study where people exercised outdoors (walking, I think) daily. My take on that particular study was that the benefit was probably derived from the exposure to natural daylight. Even on a cloudy day, outdoor light levels are something like twenty times as high as with indoor lighting at a minimum, and bright light is a proven treatment for depression (particularly seasonal depression but showing good results for non-seasonal depression as well). Bright light stimulates serotonin, it's not rocket science, it's been known for many years now. I would suspect that a number of trials purporting to show that exercise is a treatment for depression will have had similar issues with regard to outdoor exercise and the light factor.

 

[Esther12]

New study out that reminded me of this thread:

http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0048316

DEMO-II Trial. Aerobic Exercise versus Stretching Exercise in Patients with Major Depression-A Randomised Clinical Trial.

Krogh J, Videbech P, Thomsen C, Gluud C, Nordentoft M.
Source

Mental Health Centre Copenhagen, Faculty of Health Sciences, University of Copenhagen, Copenhagen, Denmark.
Abstract

BACKGROUND:

The effect of referring patients from a clinical setting to a pragmatic exercise intervention for depressive symptoms, cognitive function, and metabolic variables has yet to be determined.
METHODS:

Outpatients with major depression (DSM-IV) were allocated to supervised aerobic or stretching exercise groups during a three months period. The primary outcome was the Hamilton depression score (HAM-D(17)). Secondary outcomes were cognitive function, cardiovascular risk markers, and employment related outcomes.
RESULTS:

56 participants were allocated to the aerobic exercise intervention versus 59 participants to the stretching exercise group. Post intervention the mean difference between groups was -0.78 points on the HAM-D(17) (95% CI -3.2 to 1.6; P = .52). At follow-up, the participants in the aerobic exercise group had higher maximal oxygen uptake (mean difference 4.4 l/kg/min; 95% CI 1.7 to 7.0; P = .001) and visuospatial memory on Rey's Complex Figure Test (mean difference 3.2 points; 95% CI 0.9 to 5.5; P = .007) and lower blood glucose levels (mean difference 0.2 mmol/l; 95% CI 0.0 to 0.5; P = .04) and waist circumference (mean difference 2.2 cm; 95% CI 0.3 to 4.1; P = .02) compared with the stretching exercise group.
CONCLUSIONS:

The results of this trial does not support any antidepressant effect of referring patients with major depression to a three months aerobic exercise program. Due to lower recruitment than anticipated, the trial was terminated prior to reaching the pre-defined sample size of 212 participants; therefore the results should be interpreted in that context. However, the DEMO-II trial does suggest that an exercise program for patients with depression offer positive short-term effects on maximal oxygen uptake, visuospatial memory, fasting glucose levels, and waist circumference.
TRIAL REGISTRATION:

ClinicalTrials.gov NCT00695552.