Evrensel: Fecal Microbiota Transplantation and Its Usage in Neuropsychiatric Disorders

[kangaSue]

It would depend on how your immune system is compromised. There are hundreds of autoimmune conditions and immunodeficiencies.

I'm not saying you can do it for every condition but FMT is 4000 years old yet you will be hard pressed to find any documented evidence that FMT has caused anyone any serious lasting harm, compare that to the track record of conventional meds.

 

[frog_in_the_fog]

I found this article on the FMT DIY method, warning this might be a bit much for some.

http://www.theverge.com/2016/5/4/11...ransplant-josiah-zayner-microbiome-ibs-c-diff

 

[Daffodil]

isnt the best method through the mouth using a tube? I think that's how its done in Germany...

 

[IreneF]

I'm not saying you can do it for every condition but FMT is 4000 years old yet you will be hard pressed to find any documented evidence that FMT has caused anyone any serious lasting harm, compare that to the track record of conventional meds.

Many diseases are spread thru feces, so there's always the possibility that your donor could be carrying something that they can tolerate but you can't.

For example, most people who contract polio have mild symptoms; but there's a percentage who become paralyzed.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poliomyelitis

 

[kangaSue]

Many diseases are spread thru feces, so there's always the possibility that your donor could be carrying something that they can tolerate but you can't.

For example, most people who contract polio have mild symptoms; but there's a percentage who become paralyzed.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poliomyelitis

True but there are no guarantees in life. You could also venture outside later and be hit by a bus. You can't guard against every possibility and you can't see the future to know if a potential donor is going to be struck down by an autoimmune disease, just have to narrow the field down as much as you possibly can with some judicious screening.

 

[kangaSue]

I found this article on the FMT DIY method, warning this might be a bit much for some.

http://www.theverge.com/2016/5/4/11...ransplant-josiah-zayner-microbiome-ibs-c-diff

That's not unlike what openbiome is doing in selling frozen FMT capsules. I wouldn't be trying this if you have delayed stomach emptying (gastroparesis) though.
http://www.openbiome.org/

 

[kangaSue]

isnt the best method through the mouth using a tube? I think that's how its done in Germany...

Best practice hasn't really been established yet. Going top down is the preferred method used by infectious disease specialists but GI's doing FMT tend to prefer the enema route.

Doing it by nasal tube, you want it delivered into the jejunum preferably as it can still reflux into the stomach delivered only to the duodenum. You don't want it done by tube into the stomach as has been tried by some d.i.y'ers or even GI's.

 

[Daffodil]

my doc once said it would only help temporarily then one would have to keep doing it

 

[frog_in_the_fog]

Now this is a good concept, microbiome therapy without any of the mess.

http://www.fiercebiotech.com/biotec...obiome-drug-into-clinic-to-hit-bigger-markets

 

[kangaSue]

my doc once said it would only help temporarily then one would have to keep doing it

The only condition that regularly goes into remission from a single FMT treatment is C. diff., for everything else, you probably need to anticipate having to do multiple infusions.

I saw this bit of research recently, http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/291532.php
[The researchers found that the gut bacteria of patients who underwent FMT was normalized shortly after the procedure. They were surprised to find, however, that while the composition of patients' gut bacteria changed following FMT, it remained healthy for up to 21 weeks.]

Some bacterial species are hard to displace when they have a foot hold so one FMT treatment is probably not going to colonise the bowel for conditions other than C. diff. Some with Ulcerative Colitis have needed to do weekly or even twice weekly FMT for a year to get full remission.

 

[jengonwin]

I did my 5th DIY fecal transplant today.

Today i mixed 2tbsp resistant starch into the solution.

So far 0 results. However i do feel a mental rush after doing it

 

[JaimeS]

isnt the best method through the mouth using a tube? I think that's how its done in Germany...

...the Germans are hard-core.

This is one of those treatments I've heard good things about but can't imagine stomaching it. (Ha. Ha.)

-J

 

[Daffodil]

I'm not saying you can do it for every condition but FMT is 4000 years old yet you will be hard pressed to find any documented evidence that FMT has caused anyone any serious lasting harm, compare that to the track record of conventional meds.

one fecal transplant guru (it may have been dr. barody but i cannot remember for sure) told a friend of mine that he had 2 instances where a rare condition developed after fecal transplant. one was some kind of blood disorder. sorry i cannot remember much.

this doc did hundreds and maybe thousands of FT's though

 

[Hip]

This makes sense since the gut is considered a second brain of sorts, creating as much as 90% of serotonin in the body. So an unhappy gut leads to an unhappy brain.

Serotonin does not cross the blood-brain barrier, so the serotonin made in your gut cannot get into your brain.

Links between gut and brain include the vagus nerve, and cytokine signaling (detailed in this post).

 

[frog_in_the_fog]

I guess I over simplified the mechanics at play, thanks for clarifying @Hip.

For those interested here is an article for further reading on the subject:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/gut-second-brain/

 

[A.B.]

In recent years there has been a renewed interest concerning the ways in which the gastrointestinal tract – its functional integrity and microbial residents – might influence human mood (e.g. depression) and behavioral disorders. Once a hotbed of scientific interest in the early 20th century, this area lay dormant for decades, in part due to its association with the controversial term ‘autointoxication’. Here we review contemporary findings related to intestinal permeability, small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, lipopolysaccharide endotoxin (LPS) exposure, D-lactic acid, propionic acid, and discuss their relevance to microbiota and mental health. In addition, we include the context of modern dietary habits as they relate to depression, anxiety and their potential interaction with intestinal microbiota.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3601973/

 

[natasa778]

Has there ever been an experiment in a controlled laboratory setting where volunteers developed gut inflammation, mild abdominal pain, food intollerances, etc. by being subjected to mental stress?

I don't know the answer to that but know that gut inflammation is one of possible consequences of traumatic brain injury. If there is a direct communication highway between the gut in the brain it is kind of logical that this influence 'traffic' moves both ways. Btw have you ever been 'scared s***less', know the feeling?

The kind of study you mention would imo require volunteers to be subjected to repeated mental stress over many months, and they would need to be followed up for even longer periods of time. I cannot envisage ethics approval ever being granted for something like that. The closest we can get to such an experiment would be an animal study, and for all we know those might be out there already. Anyone?

 

[natasa778]

Serotonin does not cross the blood-brain barrier, so the serotonin made in your gut cannot get into your brain.
Links between gut and brain include the vagus nerve, and cytokine signaling (detailed in this post).

What about situations where BBB is impaired?

I'd also be interested to know if (levels of) serotonin in the gut have any influence on the vagus nerve conductance, anyone?

 

[JaimeS]

I don't know the answer to that but know that gut inflammation is one of possible consequences of traumatic brain injury. If there is a direct communication highway between the gut in the brain it is kind of logical that this influence 'traffic' moves both ways. Btw have you ever been 'scared s***less', know the feeling?

The kind of study you mention would imo require volunteers to be subjected to repeated mental stress over many months, and they would need to be followed up for even longer periods of time. I cannot envisage ethics approval ever being granted for something like that. The closest we can get to such an experiment would be an animal study, and for all we know those might be out there already. Anyone?

The answer would be to get people who have already been subjected to this kind of stress. They used to call it shellshock, though there is now some speculation that it's actually exposure to frequent concussive blasts that may create or contribute to the expression of PTSD post-wartime... 'shellshock' in the most literal fashion.

When these ethical issues crop up -- ie, we can't expose someone to this on purpose -- researchers usually find a population who has exposure already.

That said, soldiers are exposed to a lot of things besides longtime stress, including chemicals to which they have never been exposed before, new pathogens if the fight is overseas, and whatever vaccinations and supplements the military has provided. I imagine it makes research complicated.

-J