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Equilibrant

Patrick*

Formerly PWCalvin
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I'm not ready to declare the Equilibrant a resounding success, but I believe it may be working.

I am still ramping up the dosage. Each week, I add one more pill per day. Currently, I'm taking 5 per day, where the maximum dose--and Dr. C's recommendation--is 6.

Before the Equilibrant, my cycle of crashes and recovery were fairly predictable. I would typically experience 3-6 days of crash, followed by 3-6 days of recovery. And the cycle would repeat. Dr. C said that if the Equilibrant is working, the crashes would gradually become less severe and of shorter duration.

In the middle of May, I had a week-long crash that was just as severe and just a long as an average crash before the Equilibrant. But, if we take that crash out of the picture, I've had a pretty good 5 weeks. I've had periods of recovery which were followed by what felt like the onset of another crash. But the full-blown crash would never materialize. Instead, a half-baked crash would set in, hang around for a day or two, and then lift.

Another hopeful sign is that I've experienced a brief start-up reaction every time I've increased the dose. Dr. C said this would happen if the Equilibrant was indeed nudging my immune system toward Th1. Within 3-6 hours of increasing the dose, I feel flu-like symptoms. The interesting thing is that the symptoms are a different "flu-like" feeling than when I crash. As noted by others, they come with muscle aches and tenderness in my neck, which is not what I typically experience when I crash.

Having said all that, I still think it's too early to conclusively attribute my improvements to Equilibrant. I've certainly had other good streaks before the Equilibrant, although maybe not this good. I'll update again in another month or so. Eventually, I'll have my Natural Killer Cell activity tested again, which will provide a more objective measure.
 

clive powney

Senior Member
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May update : (approx 14 weeks after a slow build up)
I tried to move up to 6 tablets a day and had a reactivation of old symptoms. I woke up in the middle of the night feeling dreadful and in a bit of a panic. Whole body shaking , feeling of difficulty breathing, stomach ache and needing the toilet - next morning had an overall feeling of fatigue. I decided the next day to reduce the dose back to 4 a day, I have been on 4 tablets now for a further 3 weeks.
I havent felt very well since taking the extra dose. I had 2 weeks of feeling very queasy (very loose stools) , joint pains in my elbows knees and feet. The internal slight trembling I had had for years has returned and the myalgia and slight feeling of weakness in my legs has been more noticeable. My sleep pattern has been more disturbed and I have had to nap in the day nore than normal. Also my outlook on life has deteriorated somewhat - probably due to wanting this stuff to make me feel better and actually seeming to make me worse (normal human reaction I would think).
My potassium levels have dropped significantly enough for my doctor to put me on amiloride , which is a diuretic that stops secretion of potassium - I am due for a retest on my blood in a week or so.
Has anyone got an email address for Dr Chia - I tried him on chiasann@pol.net - the email address was valid but I got no reply

Clive
June update:
I decided to stay on 4 tablets a day until things stabilised. After a week or so I felt quite a bit better and my symptoms died down a bit. I then had quite a good couple of weeks, not symptom free but not feeling as bad as normal. My elbows joints are still painful and my feet ache like mad first thing in the morning or if I lie down for a while then get up. My need to nap in the day disappeared again and I felt a lot better about life in general. My potassium level has increased with the diuretics but not enough for the doctor to stop them - so he has represcribed for 3 months and then a further blood test.
My blood pressure is back to normal 123/83 after being quite high 145/90 for a few months.
On sunday this week I decided to increase the dose to 5 tablets and on monday painted the kitchen ceiling with a roller. Tuesday I was feeling absolutely dreadful , slept most of the day still felt extremely fatigued with aches all over and felt quite low - was it the tablets increasing or the painting - God knows. Things improved a bit wednesday + thursday and today am about at my normal ME state (rough, but not as bad as I can be). I think I have a cold or something coming on but it doesn't seem to get any further than the sniffles and a bit of a cough and slight sore throat.
I had planned to stop taking these tablets after 4 months but decided to try another month whilst I was on a bit of a 'high' - so maybe things are looking up - maybe I shouldn't say that as it always goes T!T$ up if I do!!!

clive
 

SOC

Senior Member
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I'm still on 1 tablet. After minor blips at start-up and dosage increase, I haven't had any bad rxns. I'm feeling a bit better perhaps, but it's not anything big so far. My HR is down a bit since I started taking Equilibrant, but the HR reduction since starting NAD is much bigger.
 

Andrew

Senior Member
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I started today with 1/4 pill. The pill cutter I have worked better than I expected. I don't know if it's coincidence, but shortly after my flu symptoms got so bad I got back into bed. I would have stayed in bed but the caregiver arrived to do the laundry. I'm not sure how I feel now. Not great.

I was ambivalent about starting these, because I was getting improvement in AHCC. I was also not sure whether to stop the AHCC. I'm still not sure I'm doing the right thing.
 
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Thank you to everyone for sharing their experiences. I have started Equilibrant today. Just took my first 1/2 pill.

This is my second try at an antiviral/immune modulator. I have been taking Immunovir for a year now. I'm waiting for results to see if there is any significant improvement in bloodwork, but I have not had any significant symptom improvement.

In April, I completed 6 months on Valtrex. It made me so much sicker it was a miserable six months - more miserable than normal. No improvement in my HHV-6 titers after six months and I had a huge increase in migraines. So I'm done with Valtrex.

I have positive reactivation of HHV-6 and now also EBV and CMV. I have lots of autonomic issues including POTS and Gastroparesis. I've been sick 10.5 years with every year getting worse.

I often come and browse on the forums. Can't read for long, nor write a lot so this is my first post I think. I will try to share some of my experience of Equilibrant as I go through this trial.
 
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PWCalvin, Clyde and others who are a few months ahead of me on this... when you have increased from 1 tablet - do you take the full dose you are one all at once? Or do you spread them throughout the day? I can't find any info on this.

My update after a week. I did 4 days of 1/2 a tablet. At the 5 hour mark after taking it, I got very sleepy and a little achey. As the days have gone on, my feet are the worst - they hurt so much! I have other joints that ache a bit, but the reaction overall is not near as bad as I had on Valtrex. I do have an increase in swelling and pain in many of my lymph glands.

One the second day I changed my med time to dinner so that the achey and sleepiness hit at bedtime. I feel pretty lousy in the morning and better by lunch time.

After 4 days, the reaction had decreased a lot except for my feet. So I increased to one tablet. With the increase came a little more flu feeling, a bit of increase in lymph pain and now my knee joints and hands ache as well. On the third dose, I didn't have that 5 hour reaction - I seem to be steady in my extra symptoms.

Part of me is really happy I am not reacting as strongly (fluey etc) as I did on Vatrex. But the other part is wondering if I am not getting a strong reaction like many of you, is it doing anything for the virus'? I know... patience is the key. Also, I have been so sick and miserable, feeling fluey and sore throat and migraines, that maybe this just doesn't feel like a big change.

So... now I'll join the others in reporting on the 15th of each month. But if anyone has input for me about grouping the dose or spreading it through out the day, please let me know.
 
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Mellie, When I increase those I do full pill. I do not see side effects so I tolerate well. When I do 6, I do 2 w each meal. but I have settled for 3 a day w each meal.
 

clive powney

Senior Member
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Thank you very much for your input Inester!
Mellie,
My view is to split whatever you take over the day - eg if you are on 1 1/2 tablets a day take 1/2 a tablet 3 times a day. when u move up to 2 tablets take 1 tablet twice a day - 12 hours apart - in my opinion it will give u a constant level of drug through 24 hours

best wishes
clive
 

Mij

Senior Member
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Dr.Chia recommended to a friend of mine who is his patient to take Equilbriant in combination with Inosine (I forget the dose but if you want I can find out) by Life Extension.
I've never done well on immune enhancers/modulators but Equilibriant did not have a negative effect. I took it 3x/day for 4 months but did not feel any improvement. I may go back on it in combo with Inosine next round.
 

Patrick*

Formerly PWCalvin
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PWCalvin, Clyde and others who are a few months ahead of me on this... when you have increased from 1 tablet - do you take the full dose you are one all at once? Or do you spread them throughout the day? I can't find any info on this.
Dr. Chia told me to start with 1 per day (in the AM), then go to 2 after about a week (1 in AM, and 1 in PM), then 2 and 1, then 2 and 2, then 3 and 2, then 3 and 3. Six per day is the official maximum dose, although he mentioned that his son took 9 per day at one point. I'm currently taking 6 per day.

For me, I had my best month since originally getting sick in May, while I was ramping up my dosage from 1 to 4. In June I came back down substantially. I have an appointment soon, so I'll ask if maybe 6 is too much for me.
 
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Clive, Mij and PWCalvin, Thank you ALL for your input. I am increasing to 2 tabs tomorrow and very happy to get all this input. I will be spacing the doses as you have all suggested.
 

penny

Senior Member
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An update of my experience:
  • [brief context] moderately/high functioning since beginning of 2012: reduced sickness, pain, oi and pem. increased functioning, improved sleep, etc.
  • 12 days of 1 tablet of equilibrant, steady increase in all symptoms starting with muscle pain and cramping, but including impaired sleep, fever, bone/joint aches, oi, cognitive impairment, fatigue, etc. Basically within a week I went from being able to work, do limited but regular household chores and participate in occasional recreational activities TO house/couchbound, struggling with "activities of daily living" and close to as bad as I had ever been.
  • stopped taking equilibrant, symptoms gradually reduced again - after about 5 weeks seemed to be close to my pre-equilibrant level of sickness/functioning.
Initially on stopping I was unsure whether it was the equilibrant or pem which caused my relapse. Based on my recovery, and my recent good response to a period of increased physical, cognitive and stress demands, I am now pretty sure that it was the equilibrant. Specifically I think it was the supplemental vit. D and calcium in the mix. These have caused me problems in the past, and though my test results do not indicate hyperparathyroidism, they do seem to indicate that my (in my dr's words) "body permits a wider range of calcium levels than is normal".

So I think the calcium and vit. D are what caused me to relapse so quickly and so badly. I don't know how useful this will be to others since I think my problems with the calcium/vit. D prevented me from having any idea how the 'active' ingredients might have effected me. But I wanted to share in case any one else happens to have the same odd constellation of symptoms/sensitivities.

It's great to hear that it's helping others, and good luck for continued improvement!
 

clive powney

Senior Member
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coventry
An update of my experience:
  • [brief context] moderately/high functioning since beginning of 2012: reduced sickness, pain, oi and pem. increased functioning, improved sleep, etc.
  • 12 days of 1 tablet of equilibrant, steady increase in all symptoms starting with muscle pain and cramping, but including impaired sleep, fever, bone/joint aches, oi, cognitive impairment, fatigue, etc. Basically within a week I went from being able to work, do limited but regular household chores and participate in occasional recreational activities TO house/couchbound, struggling with "activities of daily living" and close to as bad as I had ever been.
  • stopped taking equilibrant, symptoms gradually reduced again - after about 5 weeks seemed to be close to my pre-equilibrant level of sickness/functioning.
Initially on stopping I was unsure whether it was the equilibrant or pem which caused my relapse. Based on my recovery, and my recent good response to a period of increased physical, cognitive and stress demands, I am now pretty sure that it was the equilibrant. Specifically I think it was the supplemental vit. D and calcium in the mix. These have caused me problems in the past, and though my test results do not indicate hyperparathyroidism, they do seem to indicate that my (in my dr's words) "body permits a wider range of calcium levels than is normal".


So I think the calcium and vit. D are what caused me to relapse so quickly and so badly. I don't know how useful this will be to others since I think my problems with the calcium/vit. D prevented me from having any idea how the 'active' ingredients might have effected me. But I wanted to share in case any one else happens to have the same odd constellation of symptoms/sensitivities.

It's great to hear that it's helping others, and good luck for continued improvement!

Penny,

Have you thought of trying oxymatrine on its own. I have heard of others taking this and still having some success. From memory it is called white tiger and on the upside it is cheaper than equilibrant:thumbsup:
 

penny

Senior Member
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Penny,

Have you thought of trying oxymatrine on its own. I have heard of others taking this and still having some success. From memory it is called white tiger and on the upside it is cheaper than equilibrant:thumbsup:
That's a good idea. I'll put it on my "things to try" list! I think I need some more recuperation time before trying anything major. And I'd like to figure out what my deal is with calcium and vit. D - if it really is effecting me so strongly in such small quantities, then what I get from food alone could confound any other supplement trials I do.

Thanks for the suggestion!
 

Patrick*

Formerly PWCalvin
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I had my second appointment with Dr. C this week, which I summarized in this blog post. In short, I've seen some modest improvement, with setbacks too. Dr. C recommended I add Inosine to the regimen and explained why it seems to help some people.
 

clive powney

Senior Member
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I had my second appointment with Dr. C this week, which I summarized in this blog post. In short, I've seen some modest improvement, with setbacks too. Dr. C recommended I add inosine the regimen and explained why it seems to help some people.
PWC,
Thanks for the update and link to your blog. it is very interesting that you have mentioned the lows not being so low and the highs not being so high - this seems to be the pattern that I have followed somewhat. When Dr C mentioned inosine and 40% showed improvement with its use with equilibrant, was that 40% of those who had showed no improvement on equilibrant alone or was it 40% overall? It seems like a cheap addition to the regime that may improve things further and be worth a try
 
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I have had cfs for 20months I have been on equilibriant for a year and all the other natural supplements that Dr.Klimas/Rey prescribe. I have tried on the last 10 months equilibriant 3X. I could never handle the side effects, like everyone else "hit by truck" effect. Surprisingly in the last 4 weeks I have been able to go from 1 pill to now 2 pills without any major side effects. Supposedly this could be correlated with a better functioning immune system/life style etc... Furthermore when I tested for cocksackie in the past thru the blood it was negative. I sent a stomach biopsy to Dr.Chia who found cocksackie in my stomach. Now I retested for cocksackie thru blood last week. Dr.Rey called me saying my cocksackie lvls where high and to increase equilibriant... go figure?! btw ever since I have been able to handle equilibriant... I would say stomach inflamation bloating went away by 30%. Anyone have any insight on this?!
 

Patrick*

Formerly PWCalvin
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PWC,
....When Dr C mentioned inosine and 40% showed improvement with its use with equilibrant, was that 40% of those who had showed no improvement on equilibrant alone or was it 40% overall? ....
Clive, if I understand your question correctly, the answer is the former. Dr. C said he only recommends Inosine to people who have not improved substantially on Equilibrant alone. So it would be 40% of that subset of Equilibrant patients.
 

clive powney

Senior Member
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Clive, if I understand your question correctly, the answer is the former. Dr. C said he only recommends Inosine to people who have not improved substantially on Equilibrant alone. So it would be 40% of that subset of Equilibrant patients.
PWC - you understood the question perfectly - I reckon I might try some after my holiday which will be in about 4 weeks - I have improved but not substantially - thanks once again
Clive