Eating badly gives me more energy

outdamnspot

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Has anyone else experienced anything like this? The list of foods that have this effect has dwindled (it used to be peanut butter, mayonnaise etc.), but I notice now that if I consume an avocado smoothie before bed, I sleep terribly but wake up with relatively 'normal' (for me) energy and less adrenal issues etc.; on the other hand, I also experience such indescribably awful brain fog, that I'm basically mentally impaired for the day.

Conversely, if I stick to non-inflammatory foods (basically just meat and fish) I'm a lot more clear-headed and even euphoric at times, but the fatigue is incapacitating. So it's really a rock-and-a-hard-place scenario.

My guess is that the histamine release from foods might actually be energizing me, but then also causing the brain fog?
 
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I'm wondering similar things . But I do think the histamine does something to our brains that's not good . I have been eating gross things when I nsver liked any of it all my life . Maybe it's partly psychological, maybe you're looking for any momentary distraction ? And then partly that it does provide a temporary energy boost , whigb compels you to do it again?
What if you are histamine sensitive and that's why things like avacodo incapacitate you?

It's all very confusing . Do you have GI issues?

I'm wondering some of these same exact things . Looks like many of us have the same weird stuff , if only we could figure it out ! Did you have mold exposure ?
 

outdamnspot

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I'm wondering similar things . But I do think the histamine does something to our brains that's not good . I have been eating gross things when I nsver liked any of it all my life . Maybe it's partly psychological, maybe you're looking for any momentary distraction ? And then partly that it does provide a temporary energy boost , whigb compels you to do it again?
What if you are histamine sensitive and that's why things like avacodo incapacitate you?

It's all very confusing . Do you have GI issues?

I'm wondering some of these same exact things . Looks like many of us have the same weird stuff , if only we could figure it out ! Did you have mold exposure ?
I definitely have GI issues and severe food intolerances, and I think I am histamine sensitive. It isn't really a psychological craving; I know that if I eat only meat, I'll feel better but then won't have enough energy to even take care of myself, so I keep having the avocado smoothie each day because it's the only carb/fat I can semi-tolerate, and it gives me enough energy to do some basic tasks the next day. But then the brain fog is so bad, I'm disabled in a different way.
 
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There are variances between microbiota composition and specific food intakes. The net result is pro/anti infl. depending on way many factors. Fiber rich food like avocado release SCFAs into our blood stream(systemic effect) which generally have anti inflammatory effect(more energy), but at the same time they are antibiotics so there could be a withdrawal effect from them too if they hit suspected bacteria. Also avocado has some hormone D precursors. We'll never know for sure - the interactions seem to be too complex...

I have a theory that we are craving bad foods, sugars in particular to refeed bacteroides complex(they grow on fiber and sugars) in our guts to get some relief from symptoms like anxiety as a direct result of SCFAs anti-inflammatory properties.

just the top of the Iceberg:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3257741
http://www.arthritis.org/living-wit...diet/anti-inflammatory/fiber-inflammation.php
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1525046
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6102557/
https://www.nature.com/articles/srep16148
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4939913/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5366345/
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/24/well/eat/high-fiber-diet-tied-to-less-knee-arthritis.html
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21167700/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4395634/
http://med.stanford.edu/news/all-ne...ia-byproduct-protects-against-salmonella.html
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4877380/
 
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JES

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Few years ago I noticed I felt somehow better when eating junk food compared to when eating lots and lots of vegetables and fruit. I later found out that if I increase my antioxidant intake, especially via supplements that come concentrated with them, I start to feel more flu-like and worse. I attributed this effect to paradoxical weakening of some part of my immune response from high antioxidant intake, whereas foods that are pro-inflammatory somehow helped my immune system to fight back.

Maybe the constant state of immune activation in ME/CFS makes the healthy vs unhealthy food categories less clear for us. Since I began doing low carb and avoiding most starches categorically, some of these problems have thankfully disappeared.
 

Fogbuster

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Yup, horrific brain fog, do worse on fruits and veg, seem to be intolerant to every biogenic amines out there. Junk food doesn't seem to affect me as much as long as I keep blood sugar levels stable enough. Just an absurd & horrible situation to be in...
 
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I definitely have GI issues and severe food intolerances, and I think I am histamine sensitive. It isn't really a psychological craving; I know that if I eat only meat, I'll feel better but then won't have enough energy to even take care of myself, so I keep having the avocado smoothie each day because it's the only carb/fat I can semi-tolerate, and it gives me enough energy to do some basic tasks the next day. But then the brain fog is so bad, I'm disabled in a different way.
Have you been worked up for a possible mast cell disorder ? I have no idea how this thing starts exactly , I feel it's some severe trauma , for me, radiation and mold. An obvious symptom is dermatographia, do you have hives or do your clothes imprint on you? There are specific blood and urine tests that must be completed to be sure of a mast cell disorder . An allergist/immunologist and a hematologist , usually work on this. It really causes a lot of problems. I go between believing I have it and pretending I don't or that it will spontaneously leave just like it spontaneously began .

They tell people MCAS was there since childhood , that you pushed yourself so hard to compensate and hid illness , ok, there is some truth to that , but I wasn't incapacitated ! I loved smells . So you might want to look into that and then comes the question , what is going on that made it active or brought it on ? For some , it's mold.

I feel highly intoxicated after eating , I don't know if oxygen is not going to my brain or histamine reaction , it's hard to believe its histamine causing that . Someone named Avenger, has done good work regarding d lactic acidosis , look into that .

One trend here is how many have severe GI issues and some have been through all the tests and can't find the cause . Food is torturing them. When they stop eating , they feel a little better

For me, I thought my change in eating habits was partly psychological because I don't like bad food . A dr told me I was doing it becayde it's easy to digest . I had lost 20 lbs and then felt very hungry and then came the carbs but then it became partly psychological, how low I've fallen that some carbs is my big protest ? But if avocado is doing that , you may have some mast cell disorder going on becayde when i eat avocado , it's like I drank a bottle of whiskey but no where near as fun. Do you get the same reaction if you eat delivery or food you didn't prepare ? They store that food and it's loaded with mold and histamine .

The tests I was referring to were allergy tests via blood work . I can't have skin prick or patch test because they all show positive and I don't have any allergies but vancomycin and no dr is going to convince me I developed 100 allergies overnight . So this time I refused and asked for blood testing , maybe do this . All the cat dander and trees came back negative for me but 3 molds were positive , it was proof positive I had been under mold distress . That and the fact the walls were covered in black mold .

Did you do GI testing ? If you have not, start with stool and breath testing. Also bloodwork for celiac , there is more than one blood test for celiac.
 

outdamnspot

Senior Member
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There are variances between microbiota composition and specific food intakes. The net result is pro/anti infl. depending on way many factors. Fiber rich food like avocado release SCFAs into our blood stream(systemic effect) which generally have anti inflammatory effect(more energy), but at the same time they are antibiotics so there could be a withdrawal effect from them too if they hit suspected bacteria. Also avocado has some hormone D precursors. We'll never know for sure - the interactions seem to be too complex...

I have a theory that we are craving bad foods, sugars in particular to refeed bacteroides complex(they grow on fiber and sugars) in our guts to get some relief from symptoms like anxiety as a direct result of SCFAs anti-inflammatory properties.

just the top of the Iceberg:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3257741
http://www.arthritis.org/living-wit...diet/anti-inflammatory/fiber-inflammation.php
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1525046
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6102557/
https://www.nature.com/articles/srep16148
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4939913/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5366345/
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/24/well/eat/high-fiber-diet-tied-to-less-knee-arthritis.html
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21167700/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4395634/
http://med.stanford.edu/news/all-ne...ia-byproduct-protects-against-salmonella.html
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4877380/
Yes, this makes sense re: foods having a net pro/anti-inflammatory effect, and is what I suspected. As I say, I used to be able to eat mayonnaise and peanut butter and would get a similar energizing effect until they turned on me completely; I suspect the reason I can tolerate avocado for longer bouts is because of the anti-inflammatory effects, and it's probably also providing stuff I need like magnesium, folate etc. and wouldn't otherwise get much of from meat alone. After I drink the smoothie, it has a calming effect on me. But then ends up messing up my sleep completely (I guess adrenaline/histamine release?) but I still end up with more energy the next day than if I avoid it.
 

outdamnspot

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Yup, horrific brain fog, do worse on fruits and veg, seem to be intolerant to every biogenic amines out there. Junk food doesn't seem to affect me as much as long as I keep blood sugar levels stable enough. Just an absurd & horrible situation to be in...
'Brain fog' doesn't even seem to do it justice, because I never really get brain fog per se on Keto. It's just like my mind is completely blank -- devoid of thoughts, dreams, imagination etc. -- as opposed to trying to think through a fog, if that makes sense? And even trying to do basic tasks like cook, shower etc. takes tremendous willpower, not because I'm tired but because I'm just devoid of motivation or executive function. I could happily stare at the wall all day.
 

Fogbuster

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'Brain fog' doesn't even seem to do it justice, because I never really get brain fog per se on Keto. It's just like my mind is completely blank -- devoid of thoughts, dreams, imagination etc. -- as opposed to trying to think through a fog, if that makes sense? And even trying to do basic tasks like cook, shower etc. takes tremendous willpower, not because I'm tired but because I'm just devoid of motivation or executive function. I could happily stare at the wall all day.
100% can relate. Can you dream?
 

outdamnspot

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Have you been worked up for a possible mast cell disorder ? I have no idea how this thing starts exactly , I feel it's some severe trauma , for me, radiation and mold. An obvious symptom is dermatographia, do you have hives or do your clothes imprint on you? There are specific blood and urine tests that must be completed to be sure of a mast cell disorder . An allergist/immunologist and a hematologist , usually work on this. It really causes a lot of problems. I go between believing I have it and pretending I don't or that it will spontaneously leave just like it spontaneously began .

They tell people MCAS was there since childhood , that you pushed yourself so hard to compensate and hid illness , ok, there is some truth to that , but I wasn't incapacitated ! I loved smells . So you might want to look into that and then comes the question , what is going on that made it active or brought it on ? For some , it's mold.

I feel highly intoxicated after eating , I don't know if oxygen is not going to my brain or histamine reaction , it's hard to believe its histamine causing that . Someone named Avenger, has done good work regarding d lactic acidosis , look into that .

One trend here is how many have severe GI issues and some have been through all the tests and can't find the cause . Food is torturing them. When they stop eating , they feel a little better

For me, I thought my change in eating habits was partly psychological because I don't like bad food . A dr told me I was doing it becayde it's easy to digest . I had lost 20 lbs and then felt very hungry and then came the carbs but then it became partly psychological, how low I've fallen that some carbs is my big protest ? But if avocado is doing that , you may have some mast cell disorder going on becayde when i eat avocado , it's like I drank a bottle of whiskey but no where near as fun. Do you get the same reaction if you eat delivery or food you didn't prepare ? They store that food and it's loaded with mold and histamine .

The tests I was referring to were allergy tests via blood work . I can't have skin prick or patch test because they all show positive and I don't have any allergies but vancomycin and no dr is going to convince me I developed 100 allergies overnight . So this time I refused and asked for blood testing , maybe do this . All the cat dander and trees came back negative for me but 3 molds were positive , it was proof positive I had been under mold distress . That and the fact the walls were covered in black mold .

Did you do GI testing ? If you have not, start with stool and breath testing. Also bloodwork for celiac , there is more than one blood test for celiac.
Someone told me there's a difference between full-blown MCAS and simply being intolerant to histamine foods due to gut issues. Plus, I can eat ground beef, fish etc. without symptoms. So I think I might just be intolerant to histamine foods, or maybe moreso avocado because it also contains salicylates. My doctor did order some tests to rule out MCAS, but the issue is I take high-dose time-release Vitamin C to sleep (I can't sleep at all without it) so would need to not take it before I do the test and I haven't felt up to that.
 
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@outdamnspot it's quite possible I suppose to have issues with high histamine foods and not have MCAS. I guess there could be all kinds of conditions and GI problems that worsen with histamine. The whole thing, MCAS and histamine issues, is strange to me, how can tomatoes and strawberries be a problem when they never were before and are things meant to be eaten ? Something is broken
And I'm so frustrated with it and sick of it

Why would vitamin c interfere with tests results ? Don't stop the vitamin c if it's helping you . I loved citrus , especially lemons and grapefruit and I credit eating a lemon daily , as one of the many things that allowed for such a healthy life but now they make me ill, it just doesn't add up.

I guess it doesnr matter at this point if it's MCAS or a histamine issue , kind of the same at the end in some ways . The more than brain fog you speak about , is the true mystery. I feel all these disorders are the same thing , I related strongly to MCAS people, CFS people, eds people etc and have been told I have these but what if it's one thing ? What is it's all nervous system
And immune system breakdown ? Some of us have small fiber neuropathy on biopsy , I do, it's pretty bad and escalating so fast . It's like we have massine neuroinflammation , our brains don't get a pass.

. I think since you have success with some foods , but not the energy you need , just try getting rid of the histamine foods that give you the "stare at the wall" coma and see what happens . I wish I knew of such foods . Maybe do it now before whatever it is , worsens . Dump the foods that highjjack your brain and emotions . I didn't heed the warning signs , I liked pretending I wasn't ill and now I can't eat anything and now get washed . Maybe if you stop it now, you can give yourself the space to get some healing in

Look into the lactic acidosis that Avenger posts about , thst is another possibility .

Do
You have any neurological symptoms ?
Did you check your home for mold ?
 

outdamnspot

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@fredam7 Vitamin C would lower histamine and interfere with the results, especially because it's time-release and lingers in the body for 8+ hours, so if I took it before bed and went for the test the next day, it could affect the results.

I would love to cut out the avocado, but as I said in my original post, if I do that and only eat meat/fish, I become incapacitated and too weak to leave bed at all, so I assume my body needs *some* carbs and can't run on a Carnivore diet .. and I got sick/reacted to other fats I tried to add in like tallow etc. Unfortunately, every carb source seems to have histamine, salicylates etc., so avocado really has just been the lesser of all the evils.

I have some neurological symptoms .. balance problems etc. I don't think our house has mold, it was a new house purchased a few years ago.

Sorry you're suffering, it really does suck. Have you tried antibiotics at all? Some people have said they improved their food sensitivities and I'm still considering trying one
 
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I wanted to mention , bone broth does a lot of people good and it did me well before all hell broke loose, but I have a seriously bad reaction to it now and allergist said it's the histamine . I have no idea how it has histamine but I've re-attempted many times and I'm high as a kite within minutes . If I eat anything pickled , it's like I shot heroin , instantaneously wasted . And spicy ? My god, I will be high for 8 hrs straight . If these things mess you up
Too , then maybe you do have MCAS or maybe we all have some weird thing where food is just seen as a foreign invader because the GI snd food problems on this board are endless .

Do you feel drugged after eating ? I have no idea and I just hear MCAS from
Dr's and others say they have never heard of that but when I googled it some time back, others are saying the same thing so not sure how dr's never heard of it , pretty sure diabetics suffer that feeling ...
 
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@fredam7 Vitamin C would lower histamine and interfere with the results, especially because it's time-release and lingers in the body for 8+ hours, so if I took it before bed and went for the test the next day, it could affect the results.

I would love to cut out the avocado, but as I said in my original post, if I do that and only eat meat/fish, I become incapacitated and too weak to leave bed at all, so I assume my body needs *some* carbs and can't run on a Carnivore diet .. and I got sick/reacted to other fats I tried to add in like tallow etc. Unfortunately, every carb source seems to have histamine, salicylates etc., so avocado really has just been the lesser of all the evils.

I have some neurological symptoms .. balance problems etc. I don't think our house has mold, it was a new house purchased a few years ago.

Sorry you're suffering, it really does suck. Have you tried antibiotics at all? Some people have said they improved their food sensitivities and I'm still considering trying one
Well, it seems like you already tried the meat diet and it was a no go. I just know that brain fog , worse than brain fog , and if you can find a way to spare yourself that. I wonder if we are getting permanent brain damage . It's like having Alzheimer's and I used to be extremely sharp
And could do 1000 things at once , always was first academically , athletically , every job , didn't matter and I attended to every detail in my life and all my friend's lives and now I do the same thing 100 times and haven't been able to order a product I've been trying to order for months ! I'm
So low functioning I am disgusted .

The way a very good pain dr explained it was "think of yourself as hsvinb MS, a centralized nervous system disorder and auto immune disorder ". Everything he told me , has come to pass. Everything and I did not at all believe it. That's why I ask if you have nerve issues . And I think what we eat , can exacerbate the nerve issues . What if we have insulin problems but they're not high enough to be diabetic and we are not true diabetics but have some insulin issue ? That can lead to the messed up brains .

Sorry I'm allover the place , I ate kale , not supposed to but I figure might as well have what I want with my limited time ...

I don't know of a low histamine substitute for avocado . Wish I could think
Of something. I agree we need carbs , wonder how others are getting carbs and avoiding this problem

Good to know about the vitamin c, makes sense .