Early stages of covid - what to do?

[Zebra]

any advice?

Have you and your wife already been in touch with her primary care physician to let them know your wife has tested positive for COVID?

I would be interested to know what her doctor advises for first-line treatment.

 

[Husband of]

Have you and your wife already been in touch with her primary care physician to let them know your wife has tested positive for COVID?

I would be interested to know what her doctor advises for first-line treatment.

No. There are two things about that
1. If you have COVID you don't get to see your primary care physician; they have rooms away from the rest of the clinic and you get whatever GP has been assigned for COVID duty
2. Whoever the GP is, they will only give you an inhaler and tell you to isolate, or you could get prescribed paxlovid or mulnopiravir if you meet criteria, including havng a condition on a list, for eligibility as someone susceptible to severe COVID (ie hospitalization or death). They have to be very strict in this as the country is in short supply. MECFS is not on the list of conditions. Chronic Neuromuscular illness is, but I doubt I could convince the GP that MECFS is a chronic neuromuscular illness.

 

[Husband of]

Yes two entirely different plants.
they both contain many tannins but apart form that… they are not the same. Artemisia is known and used in many african countries as „the malaria drug for the poor“ it works against malaria, HHV6, and PROBABLY other pathogens. I live near a Dr who is such a fan of it that he gives it to his whole family when they come down with flu or similar.

Unfortunately it Turns out artimisia is prescription only in New Zealand because of liver damage effects, and it has not been approved as safe therefore if a doctor prescribes it they could be liable, in other words they won't prescribe it.

 

[Rvanson]

Mega doses of powdered vitamin C; Zinc, lots of vitamin D, and since the effects of Long Covid seem to be similar to ME/CFS, I'd recommend MSM as well. It helped me when I was very ill when ME/CFS struck me down, 26 years ago. You might want to buy adult diapers, as mega-doses of vitamin C will cause lots of diarrhea.

 

[linusbert]

Mega doses of powdered vitamin C; Zinc, lots of vitamin D, and since the effects of Long Covid seem to be similar to ME/CFS, I'd recommend MSM as well. It helped me when I was very ill when ME/CFS struck me down, 26 years ago. You might want to buy adult diapers, as mega-doses of vitamin C will cause lots of diarrhea.

i guess when one gets diarrhea from megadosing of vitamin C its probably better to use less or a different form?
i get loose stool or diarrhea from relative small vitamin C doses of like 100mg+.

what i tolerate pretty good is liposomal vitamin C. i can take it in the grams then. no diarrhea. at least when the liposomes are intact.

 

[Rvanson]

i guess when one gets diarrhea from megadosing of vitamin C its probably better to use less or a different form?
i get loose stool or diarrhea from relative small vitamin C doses of like 100mg+.

what i tolerate pretty good is liposomal vitamin C. i can take it in the grams then. no diarrhea. at least when the liposomes are intact.

Yeah the liposomal vitamin C doesn't cause diarrhea as bad, as its an lipid/oil of sorts, but its expensive, compared to normal vitamin C. Humans don't make their own vitamin C as most other mammals do, thus Scurvy was an issue for sailors back in the day. It's anti-aging too. Vitamin C is great for your gums. My brother who is 4 years younger then myself looks much older then I do, but I've been using Vitamin C since I was 12. I'm 67 and still have few wrinkles and most of my head hair which is brown. Strarting to get some silver now, but my brother looks like he's in his early 70's. Mostly bald with all gray hair.

 

[Husband of]

How much vit c would you take, if you had liposomal like I do and cost wasn't an issue?

 

[Rvanson]

Probably 1500-2000 mg. I take 3000 mg of regular vitamin C most days. But liposomal Vitamin. C is better absorbed then regular Vitamin C. I'm not a doctor, but I'd be using 10,000 mg a day or much more if she's got the Covid virus. I dont think anyone has ever died from Vitamin C. It is very safe, but when Ill, it takes more to kill the virus. Look up Doctor Linus Paulings work on Vitamin C. He's passed on do to old age but he used in to kill cancer, but by infusions. His work on vitamin C is incredable.

 

[Husband of]

The FLCCC I-Care early treatment protocol may be of interest:

https://covid19criticalcare.com/treatment-protocols/i-care/

Hey thanks. I took a look at this, and because it seemed a bit dodge I did a bit of googling. Turns out they had an academic journal article on ivermectin rejected which they were a bit upset about because they [the leader of the organisation] said we shouldn't be relying on strong evidence if it doesn't exist, if weaker evidence shows promise then we should make decisions based on it until stronger evidence emerges.

fair enough I thought. They went on to say that there were proper, controlled, trials taking place, citing the trial by the together group. This was a while ago, so I thought I'd see how that trial went.

the trial showed no effect of ivermectin on hospitiisation.

then I saw the together group also had done a clinical trial in one of the other primary treatment suggested by the flccc - HCQ. Again, results were not promising.

but fluvoxamine, noted as a second line therapy by flccc, shows great effect in a together group clinical trial.

 

[Zebra]

@Husband of

You are very generous to explain the situation in New Zealand to us.

It's *appalling* how little is being done to help folks who are unlucky enough to catch COVID. You'd think it would be in the health care system's best interest to help people recover from infection and avoid hospitalization and/or long COVID. I'm so sorry that is not the case.

You wife is lucky to have you searching far and wide for supportive treatment. I hope that she recovers quickly and that you are able to avoid becoming infected yourself.

My best wishes!
Z

 

[Marylib]

No. There are two things about that
1. If you have COVID you don't get to see your primary care physician; they have rooms away from the rest of the clinic and you get whatever GP has been assigned for COVID duty
2. Whoever the GP is, they will only give you an inhaler and tell you to isolate, or you could get prescribed paxlovid or mulnopiravir if you meet criteria, including havng a condition on a list, for eligibility as someone susceptible to severe COVID (ie hospitalization or death). They have to be very strict in this as the country is in short supply. MECFS is not on the list of conditions. Chronic Neuromuscular illness is, but I doubt I could convince the GP that MECFS is a chronic neuromuscular illness.

ME/CFS is a neurological disease that affects every system of the body. It is not a 'normal' immune system. I'm sorry I didn't see this til now. I have a good communication with my GP (this took years) and I finally qualified for it in NZ. Maybe my age and the fact that I did not get the vaccines (too risky). Some have success by showing up at ED. Sometimes they will just give you paxlovid because they don't want you to be in hospital. Also there are pharmacies who will give it to you if you are lucky. Good luck!

 

[Marylib]

@Husband of The 'short supply' argument may be bullshit. It is sitting on the shelves. This is from a friend who is a professional and can see the stock supply.

 

[Husband of]

@Marylib how old are you?
This is the criteria
Pharmac has widened access to COVID-19 antivirals and from 14 September 2022, to be eligible for COVID-19 antiviral medicines, you must:

• have symptoms and have tested positive for COVID-19 or
• have symptoms and be a household contact of a person with COVID-19

One of the following must also apply:

• you are aged 65-plus
• you are Māori or Pacific ethnicity aged 50-plus
• you are aged 50-plus AND have not completed a primary course of COVID-19 vaccinations
• you have any combination of three or more high-risk medical conditions
• you have a severely weakened immune system
• you have Down syndrome
• you have sickle cell disease
• you have previously been admitted to critical care or high dependency care as a result of COVID-19 and have tested positive again

 

[Husband of]

And
People with high risk medical conditions (this list is used for COVID-19 therapeutics access criteria)
COVID-19 is more likely to become severe in those with underlying medical conditions. The list below is for use with Pharmac COVID-19 therapeutics access criteria.
High risk medical conditions include:

• chronic lung or airways disease
• serious heart conditions such as congestive heart failure, coronary artery disease, rheumatic heart disease, and congenital heart disease
• hypertension
• chronic neurological or neuromuscular disease
• diabetes
• chronic kidney disease
• severe liver disease such as cirrhosis
• severe haematological disorders
• severe mental illness such as schizophrenia, major depressive disorder, bipolar or schizoaffective disorder
• active cancer
• morbid obesity (BMI greater than 35)
• sickle cell disease
• Down syndrome.

 

[Husband of]

And
People with compromised immunity
Severe COVID-19 is more likely when people have conditions or take medicines that are associated with immunosuppression.
This includes:

• Chemotherapy or radiotherapy
• Bone marrow or organ transplantation
• Some blood cancers
• Immune deficiencies including HIV infection
• Some immunity weakening medicines such as high-dose corticosteroids and disease-modifying anti-rheumatic drugs that treat inflammatory conditions such as arthritis and inflammatory bowel disease
• Long term haemodialysis or peritoneal dialysis

Eligibility criteria for COVID-19 antivirals in this category are the same as eligibility criteria for the third dose of COVID-19 vaccine.
There is information available for people with weakened immune systems:
COVID-19 and people with weakened immune systems – Health Navigator Information for those living with cancer during the Omicron outbreak - Te Aho o Te Kahu (Cancer Control Agency)

 

[Husband of]

@Husband of The 'short supply' argument may be bullshit. It is sitting on the shelves. This is from a friend who is a professional and can see the stock supply.

Ok, looking further into it my information was probably outdated on the short supply thing. But that doesn't mean the criteria don't apply. Can you get your friend to steal us some

 

[Husband of]

ME/CFS is a neurological disease that affects every system of the body. It is not a 'normal' immune system. I'm sorry I didn't see this til now. I have a good communication with my GP (this took years) and I finally qualified for it in NZ. Maybe my age and the fact that I did not get the vaccines (too risky). Some have success by showing up at ED. Sometimes they will just give you paxlovid because they don't want you to be in hospital. Also there are pharmacies who will give it to you if you are lucky. Good luck!

I did go to a pharmacy and they asked how old she is and when I responded they said I needed a prescription. How did paxlovid affect your MECFS by the way? Also who is your doctor and do they characterize MECFS as neurological or neuromuscular? We went To a neurologist and they weren't interested, said my wife has cfs and she should work on her grief issues.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

Did you mean 50000? Because I see later you said you could only take 5,000.

For some reason Drs who pooh-poohed the value of Vit D (which is actually a hormone) preciously, suddenly decided that the way to deal with adeficit was to prescribe 50,000 iu at a time, which is hella dangerous in some people.

5000 iu i a far more sensible does, and if you're deficient at say 20 ngL in a blood test, then you could up that by 50% and still be on the safe side.

I really think such high doses can create other nutritional deficiencies in our bodies that need to be addressed as well because the Vitamin D is speeding things up which uses things up.

Absolutely right. One of the main things that it immediately depletes is magnesium, which is required for hundreds and hundreds of actions and conversions in our bodies, and when needed, will be pulled from bones and soft tissues to make up the short-fall. No need to yammer on about what that would do to the human body over a fairly short period of time ....

C also ionizes calcium. can also lead to more excretion of calcium via urine. so if C didnt make it worse, you probably are right.

Ionized calcium is simply calcium bound to proteins or other minerals, and is also known as 'free calcium'. The problems with this can be resolved by MK-7, which is paramount in proper utilization and storage of calcium, and eliminates the problem of loss thru excretion in urine.

Mega doses of powdered vitamin C; Zinc, lots of vitamin D, and since the effects of Long Covid seem to be similar to ME/CFS, I'd recommend MSM as well.

My husband DB, God bless him, brought home my second dose of COVID this week, and that's pretty much the protocol we're both using, altho I've always been vigilant about cramming both of us with Vit D, C, magnesium, zinc, calcium .....

So far, as crappy as we both feel, it's nowhere near as debilitating as my first bout with COVID was, about 2 years ago. So there must be something to the protective effect of those, and the fact that if you DO get COVID, those adjuvants will mitigate the effects considerably, along with shortening the duration.

That said, thinking is about 20 times harder for me than usual (with just normal ME) and DB is starting to understand my functional limitations when I'm going thru a bad ME spike ....

but fluvoxamine, noted as a second line therapy by flccc, shows great effect in a together group clinical trial.

I'd be careful with fluvoxamine. Google some of the side effects and then decide if it's worth it, particularly for your wife ....

a together group clinical trial.

PS ... what's a 'together group'?

 

[Husband of]

For some reason Drs who pooh-poohed the value of Vit D (which is actually a hormone) preciously, suddenly decided that the way to deal with adeficit was to prescribe 50,000 iu at a time, which is hella dangerous in some people.

5000 iu i a far more sensible does, and if you're deficient at say 20 ngL in a blood test, then you could up that by 50% and still be on the safe side.


Absolutely right. One of the main things that it immediately depletes is magnesium, which is required for hundreds and hundreds of actions and conversions in our bodies, and when needed, will be pulled from bones and soft tissues to make up the short-fall. No need to yammer on about what that would do to the human body over a fairly short period of time ....


Ionized calcium is simply calcium bound to proteins or other minerals, and is also known as 'free calcium'. The problems with this can be resolved by MK-7, which is paramount in proper utilization and storage of calcium, and eliminates the problem of loss thru excretion in urine.


My husband DB, God bless him, brought home my second dose of COVID this week, and that's pretty much the protocol we're both using, altho I've always been vigilant about cramming both of us with Vit D, C, magnesium, zinc, calcium .....

So far, as crappy as we both feel, it's nowhere near as debilitating as my first bout with COVID was, about 2 years ago. So there must be something to the protective effect of those, and the fact that if you DO get COVID, those adjuvants will mitigate the effects considerably, along with shortening the duration.

That said, thinking is about 20 times harder for me than usual (with just normal ME) and DB is starting to understand my functional limitations when I'm going thru a bad ME spike ....


I'd be careful with fluvoxamine. Google some of the side effects and then decide if it's worth it, particularly for your wife ....


PS ... what's a 'together group'?

Together group is the name of a group of people doing clinical trials on COVID

 

[Husband of]

Tried to get Paxlovid from pharmacist but they said she didn't meet the criteria