DrLam and his theories on adrenal fatigue/ up for discussion

[heapsreal]

http://www.drlam.com/adrenalfatiguecenter/adrenalrecovery.asp
Theres seems to be some good info on his site and needs to be read several times i think to get it. He doesnt seem to jump past the gun for the 'sexy' things like hormones and adrenal extracts etc even weary of adadptogenic herbs, all seem to have a time and a place but seems big on using vitamin b5 in 500mg doses plus of vitamin c. It seems the worse your adrenals are the worse your reactions are to the sexy treatments and better to use B5 and vit c and slowly build up and later as in months ad adrenal extracts for a short course and maybe adaptogens for 6 week courses. I havent seen phophatidyl sedrine mentioned for high night time cortisol , which im finding good at the moment.

HIs recovery journey seems to be a very up and down treatment of crashes and recovery cycles and during these treatment intake has to be adjusted etc to suit the conditions. It seems that adrenal hormones will be the icing on the cake, in the way this treatment works.

Outside of chronic cmv reactivating which i no have settled, work is my nexrt big stress ,mainly for the long and strange hours worked, mmmm what to do, anyone want to volunteer to pay all my bills.

Have a read of hid site and bring some discussion back or good pointers we have missed.

cheers!!!

 

[Enid]

Very interesting - many thanks for posting heapsreal. Will take a little while to digest first.

 

[ukxmrv]

If anyone does read the article and his treatments can they please let us know if there is anything new or interesting there. The colours make it impossible to read on the screen and the links at a first glance didn't seem to return anything new.

I've not had luck with Vit c and B5 for example. Already tried supplementation of hormones. At a quick glance at the OAT section a lot of the info didn't apply to me (i.e. no menstual irreguarlies). When I had high estrogen once my cortisol didn't go down further and there was no noticable effect on thryroid. They are just theories aren't they and not actually proven on real PWME?

Wonder if this is for "well people" with "just" adrenal fatigue and has any relevance for PWME? Especially ones with XMRV where the virus may have a effect of it's own on hormones.

 

[hope love light]

Hi Heapsreal,

Wow there is a ton of information and I am still trying to read it and go through it.
I did the adrenal fatigue test on the site and got a 13...I also filled out the email questions (probobly was too vague) but I will let you know if I hear anything.

At this point I am ovewhelmed and not sure where to start to help my adrenals.
My TCM doctor switched my herbs and I am taking Licorice still and Astragulus.

Anyway keep posting about the adreanls as I think I need all the help I can get.

Hope Love Light

 

[garcia]

If anyone does read the article and his treatments can they please let us know if there is anything new or interesting there. The colours make it impossible to read on the screen and the links at a first glance didn't seem to return anything new.

I've not had luck with Vit c and B5 for example. Already tried supplementation of hormones. At a quick glance at the OAT section a lot of the info didn't apply to me (i.e. no menstual irreguarlies). When I had high estrogen once my cortisol didn't go down further and there was no noticable effect on thryroid. They are just theories aren't they and not actually proven on real PWME?

Wonder if this is for "well people" with "just" adrenal fatigue and has any relevance for PWME? Especially ones with XMRV where the virus may have a effect of it's own on hormones.

In my experience the advice is useless for anyone except those who are mildly ill.

 

[PokerPlayer]

I did the dr. lam program last summer for 3 months. I have never had the horrible fatigue that many here have. I just could not exercise without feeling worse the next few days, or without getting heart palpitations from it. I also have had brain fog and depression and anxiety.

Anyway, the program seems to just be about treating mitochondrial dysfunction. I don't really think there is any difference between "adrenal fatigue" and "chronic fatigue syndrome". Can't cfs cause low adrenal hormones? The liposomal vitamin c was powerful and had to be titrated up slowly, same with the pantethine (b5). I improved a lot, but after a while I didn't really improve at all and decided I needed to look elsewhere. If I could go back in time, I would have tried the program but while on an ssri so as to prevent crashing from excessive stimulation from the supplements.

 

[sleepy237]

Thanks for the link heapsreal. I had a short synacthen test done but nothing showed. However I have little brownish pigments under my eyes which suggest I am low in cortisol, and other issues like OI thanks again. ~Sleepy

 

[heapsreal]

Why do u say that? He seems to think going to aggressive with hormones, adrenal extract and herbs is no good except for a few weeks as people with severe AF as it can cause adverse reactions like agiation, insomnia, anger etc and the vit b5 and vit c are the main stay of treatment, the other things i believe can be added when adrenals recover to a better degree.
Garcia elaborate why its useless in your opinion? have u used his protocols etc? I know it seems quite simple but even things that sound like rocket science can be useless. MAybe u can save us time.

In my experience the advice is useless for anyone except those who are mildly ill.

 

[garcia]

Why do u say that? He seems to think going to aggressive with hormones, adrenal extract and herbs is no good except for a few weeks as people with severe AF as it can cause adverse reactions like agiation, insomnia, anger etc and the vit b5 and vit c are the main stay of treatment, the other things i believe can be added when adrenals recover to a better degree.
Garcia elaborate why its useless in your opinion? have u used his protocols etc? I know it seems quite simple but even things that sound like rocket science can be useless. MAybe u can save us time.

Heaps, I agree with the first bit - going aggressive with hormones, adrenal extract & herbs is not a good idea IMHO.

But if he thinks that B5 and Vitamin C can cure severe adrenal fatigue, then he is living in cloud cuckoo land. They will not cure the severe HPA-axis dysregulation caused by an untreated gamma retroviral infection. Vitamin C doesn't do a thing for my adrenals. And B5 doesn't do anything noticable either.

Again I can't comment on people who are mildly ill, since I am not in that category.

I'm still trying to figure out what will help severe "adrenal fatigue", but I know an awful lot of things which will not. But I am yet to come across anyone of these self-styled experts who actually understands what "adrenal fatigue" actually is, what causes it, or how to treat it.

 

[heapsreal]

Hi Hope just follow your naturopath for now and reread dr lams site to fully understand what is going on. The recovery section was interesting the way he mentions crashes etc. Astragalus is a gentle herb which would be ok to stay on, licorice might be something to just get u started and use for a few weeks. Siberian ginseng which im using is mild(not stimulating) but i think treating the dr lam way is to use b5 and C. Im probably using 2-3000mg of c a day and 500mg b5, i did use 1000mg b5 yesterday and it was too stimulating, i may need to try and split the dose like morn and afternoon for b5 if going over 500mg.

What we all have to remember is that cfs is a multi system problem and adrenals is one part. I have tried similar treatments in the past with not alot of success but now they seem to be helping now i have my cmv viral load down. But good adrenals also help the immune system, so its the sum of the parts.

cheers!!!

Hi Heapsreal,

Wow there is a ton of information and I am still trying to read it and go through it.
I did the adrenal fatigue test on the site and got a 13...I also filled out the email questions (probobly was too vague) but I will let you know if I hear anything.

At this point I am ovewhelmed and not sure where to start to help my adrenals.
My TCM doctor switched my herbs and I am taking Licorice still and Astragulus.

Anyway keep posting about the adreanls as I think I need all the help I can get.

Hope Love Light

 

[heapsreal]

im glad u elaborated because we are not on the same page but in the same book. i just mentioned this but these things didnt help me until i got my viral load down with av's. I went down this line as i still had residuel fatigue and sleep problems and dhea and cortisol testing was really low. I dont know if im xmrv positive or not but i do have poor nk function and other immune dysfunction. I think he uses gentler substances to improve adrenals to some degree and when that happens adds adrenal hormones etc I cant notice anything from vitamin c but then that happens with most vitamins, as for b5 i can notice a difference and 2 much yestereday actually gave me some mild tachycardia and anxious feeling which is extremely strange for me, maybe a sign my adrenals are kicking in.

Its something for others to think about once they get their viral loads down, as it puts a big stress on the body and even riding xmrv your going to be left with some residual fatigue and a lag period before feeling well again. U probably still have a hi viral load which could be why u dont feel anything but taking extra b5 and C isnt going to hurt either and may help improve energy once u get xmrv down.

cheers!!

Heaps, I agree with the first bit - going aggressive with hormones, adrenal extract & herbs is not a good idea IMHO.

But if he thinks that B5 and Vitamin C can cure severe adrenal fatigue, then he is living in cloud cuckoo land. They will not cure the severe HPA-axis dysregulation caused by an untreated gamma retroviral infection. Vitamin C doesn't do a thing for my adrenals. And B5 doesn't do anything noticable either.

Again I can't comment on people who are mildly ill, since I am not in that category.

I'm still trying to figure out what will help severe "adrenal fatigue", but I know an awful lot of things which will not. But I am yet to come across anyone of these self-styled experts who actually understands what "adrenal fatigue" actually is, what causes it, or how to treat it.

 

[aquariusgirl]

I agree with heaps.. there's probably an order to do this stuff in .. question is what is it?

This whole thing drives me crazy. It's so hard to know where to start.

I am beginning to think the flow chart shld look like this: get viral load down, address oxidative stress, do methylation support, do gcmaf, do more antivirals, antifungals, antimicrobials, work on leaky gut, get stem cells for all the damage!

Somewhere along the line.. rob a bank to pay for it all.

 

[heapsreal]

hey, im just reading dr lams crash management theories, what do others do in a crash to help recover. I tend to increase sleep meds and improve sleep quantity and use natural sedative during the day like kava extract to reduce stress, i also increase vit c as it can improve immune function and help adrenals. I have been considering adrenal hormones during this period like pregnenolone and dhea, maybe hydrocort or adrenal extracts for short periods to overcome the crash and improve recovery but will talk to my doc about this. Pregnenolone and dhea from my understanding dont have any negative feedback problems, so want shut down natural hormone production. i think continuing with vit b5, siberian ginseng, astragalus and vit c as a maintenance thing to help adrenals recover in the long run and phaosphatidyl serine to help with inverse cortisol secretions at night to help with insomnia etc. If it feels more viral as in painful lymph glands etc i will increase my famvir or increase my valtrex dose. I also may do some b12 injections as well.

im interested to hear other opinions on my crash mangement and to hear what others do, i suppose it also depends on peoples specific co-infections and abnormalities etc too.

cheers!!!