• Welcome to Phoenix Rising!

    Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of, and finding treatments for, complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia, long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.

    To become a member, simply click the Register button at the top right.

Dr. Terry Wahls - MS recovery plan

xchocoholic

Senior Member
Messages
2,947
Location
Florida
Fwiw. I wouldn't want anyone to feel bad about not keeping up with this diet.

I don't think I could've made this kind of dietary change quickly either. I've been working
on my diet since 2005 and still have a way to go. I move so slowly that it feels like one pwc year = 10 healthy
person years. At some point in the last few years I decided that
avoiding undo stress was more important to me than pushing myself into any protocal. But that's just me.

Tc .. X
 

Sasha

Fine, thank you
Messages
17,863
Location
UK
Hi x - I don't feel bad about not keeping up with the diet but I do feel frustrated. I wish I had a chef!

I'm trying to figure out what the most beneficial changes might be and to try to think of ways to implement them, even if I can't do the rest or do it all 100%.

There seems to be a lot of emphasis on green leafy vegetables, especially the cruciferae and especially kale, being the most nutrient dense but that nutrient density is per calorie, not per gram. So nuts come out very low down the list even though they might (or might not, I don't know) be as nutritious per gram as green vegetables. Green vegetables need a lot of prep and nuts need none so it's a real issue.

However, greens seem to have a different set of nutrients than other stuff and I don't like them so have rarely eaten them in the last 50 years so I think I've got some making up to do there! I think my priority should therefore be blending/juicing green drinks, since it's the least prep and chewing.
 

xchocoholic

Senior Member
Messages
2,947
Location
Florida
Hi sasha,

A chef would be ideal .. I beat myself up for years until I decided to chill and accept that my cfs is going to limit my abilities.
I guess that's why I feel so at home here. I know you all can relate.

I've taken a similiar approach to diets. Only I've found that the way I eat certain foods deterimes how
they make me feel. For various reasons, I'm super sensitive to foods. Hyperinsulinemia, oxalates, celiac, etc.

For instance green smoothies with a small amount of fruit are better for me because
of my hyperinsulinema. Too little fruit and I don't feel energized but too much fruit makes me tired because
my body over produces insulin to the sugars.

Also I feel a sense of wellbeing from juicing and eating raw fruits, veggies and cooked meats but not from smoothies. This is different from the sugar high or
feeling hydrated. Fresh young coconut water is hydrating to me too but none of the pkg coconuts waters are.

An orange is the perfect pick me up from a blood glucose low for me. Nothing works as well and I've tried many things over
the past few years. Those glucose tablets don't even work as well. Dates come close but they're not as good.

I wish I'd known this years ago .. Tc .. X
 

Sasha

Fine, thank you
Messages
17,863
Location
UK
Hi x - you've done well to navigate all those extra difficulties. We need both a chef and a personal nutritionist!
 

maddietod

Senior Member
Messages
2,902
Hi x - I don't feel bad about not keeping up with the diet but I do feel frustrated. I wish I had a chef!

I'm trying to figure out what the most beneficial changes might be and to try to think of ways to implement them, even if I can't do the rest or do it all 100%.

There seems to be a lot of emphasis on green leafy vegetables, especially the cruciferae and especially kale, being the most nutrient dense but that nutrient density is per calorie, not per gram. So nuts come out very low down the list even though they might (or might not, I don't know) be as nutritious per gram as green vegetables. Green vegetables need a lot of prep and nuts need none so it's a real issue.

However, greens seem to have a different set of nutrients than other stuff and I don't like them so have rarely eaten them in the last 50 years so I think I've got some making up to do there! I think my priority should therefore be blending/juicing green drinks, since it's the least prep and chewing.

I've been thinking about this too. I just can't consume the amount of leafy greens she says she eats every day. And I think a little fruit is a good idea, but a lot is too much of a carb load for me. So I'm busy constructing a diet around 2lbs of mostly vegetables + some fruit daily, working with the color groups. I'm trying to also work in 25-30g of fiber, and about 50g protein.

I do best if I stay low-carb, and my doctor wants me off animal proteins ATM (cholesterol), so I've ordered hemp, rice, and pea protein powders, and coconut dietary fiber. I'm just at the beginning of figuring this out, but it feels do-able.
 

Sasha

Fine, thank you
Messages
17,863
Location
UK
Hi madie - that all sounds good. I'm so immobile that I put on weight quickly if I go over about 1500 cals/day so a diet high in fruit is problematic for me too. I also have so little energy that I can't sit up and chew the whole time!
 

xchocoholic

Senior Member
Messages
2,947
Location
Florida
Fwiw, like most things you do repeatedly, the veggie prep got easier after awhile. Cutting my veggies to bite size pieces to make chewing easier and making a big salad in the morning that lasts the whole day works for me too. I have more energy in the mornings. It's nice having food ready to go too.

I really struggle on the days where I have to shop, wash and chop so I usually break up these tasks.

Fwiw, I was told to eliminate all processed foods esp those protein powders. They're not bio-available like
the real thing. Granted it took me awhile to stop using these but I feel better without these.
 

Sasha

Fine, thank you
Messages
17,863
Location
UK
Hi x - that's good advice. I have a home help for an hour once a week and get her to chop 500g of mushrooms for me so all I have to do is toss them with a bit of pesto and microwave them - lasts me with a daily portion the whole week. She also chops onions so I can roast a couple of trays and eat them cold - again, a portion a day for a week.

Fuhrman is against protein powders too on the basis that foods contain a complex and unknown mix of nutrients that are better left in.
 

CJB

Senior Member
Messages
877
Hi, everyone. I love it here -- too tired to chew? YES! Get it. I don't do salads anymore just because there's too much chewing going on. I have a Breville juicer that's never been used. I got it just before I went on serious lo carb quite a few years back, and I'm thinking about breaking it out and trying some green juices.

xchoc, one of my Yorkies has to avoid oxalic acid too. I've never had to memorize the food list because, fortunately, there's a prescription food for him, but that must really up the degree of difficulty.

ETA I've tried frozen kale and one that was a mix of kale and collard greens. It was actually very, very good. That really cuts down on the prep time if you're going to cook it. Frozen sometimes can be more nutritious than fresh, depending on how long it takes to get from the grower to your tummy and it's more forgiving if you can't cook it right away.
 

Sasha

Fine, thank you
Messages
17,863
Location
UK
Hi CJB - if you've got a juicer that's not exhausting to clean, I think that's a good way to go.

I can't stand at a stove and use pans to cook things but sometimes I've bought kale in a sealed cellophane bag that you can puncture and just stick in the microwave to steam - that's very easy.
 

xchocoholic

Senior Member
Messages
2,947
Location
Florida
Hi cjb,

Glad you found us .. Most people just have no idea just how much energy chewing takes. Chopping
the veggies makes it sooooo much easier.

I'll have to look for the frozen kale. I've found that lacenta kale, the straight dark green one, is
typically clean and bug free at my local hfs so I've been buying this one lately. I like the curly and the
purple kale too but so do the bugs. And unravelling all those curls looking for bugs and dirt is a pain.

I haven't read furhman's info yet. I was lucky enough to have a freind come to my house and
revamp my diet for me. He recommended less meat (i went from 3/4lb - to 1/4 daily), more veggies
(chopping was his idea), stop
using processed foods including oils and proteins .. I was drowning my salads in oil .. Lol.. Evoo and evco
are ok but in serious moderation. Olives and coconuts are the better choice.

tc .. X
 

Sasha

Fine, thank you
Messages
17,863
Location
UK
I hadn't thought of olive oil, flaxseed oil etc. as processed foods until I read Fuhrman. Makes sense, though.
 

maddietod

Senior Member
Messages
2,902
Most people who say "Well, I don't eat processed foods" mean they bake their own cookies...with flour, and butter, and chocolate chips.
 

xchocoholic

Senior Member
Messages
2,947
Location
Florida
I was googling this weekend and found this great info ... tc ... x

http://www.terrywahls.com/_blog/Terry_Wahls'_Blog



Terry Wahls - Saturday, January 14, 2012

One way to adopt the Wahls Diet™ is to use a phased approach:
Phase 1 = Eating 9 cups of non-starchy vegetables and berries each day (greens, sulfur, color).
Phase 2 = Going gluten free, dairy free and soy free to reduce the risk of food allergies.
Phase 3 = Going Paleo by reducing/eliminating grains, legumes and potatoes.
Phase 4 = Getting evaluated for potential food allergies, toxic load issues and more personalized nutritional needs by a practitioner of functional medicine. The Institute for Functional Medicine can help you find a provider in your area.

Asked if a vegetarian diet that stresses grain and legumes, such as what is advocated in the China Study, is healthy or harmful. Certainly, a plant-based diet that is low in saturated fat is superior to the standard American diet.

But my interpretation of the science is that a Paleo diet is likely superior. There are no head-to-head studies comparing the Wahls Diet and a vegetarian diet (grains and legumes), although I am working on a grant proposal for such a study. The risk of grains and legumes is the high level of carbohydrates and insulin needed to handle those carbohydrates. The high insulin levels lead to worsening inflammation.

And too many carbohydrates leads to a greater risk of the wrong bacteria in the bowels, further increasing the inflammation and risk of autoimmune problems. For those who are vegetarians for deep reasons, I would recommend at least switching to gluten-free grains and soaking or sprouting the grains and legumes for 24 hours prior to eating them.


The problem with gluten (wheat, rye and barley) and casein (dairy) is that, in the genetically at-risk person (estimated to be 1 in 8), those proteins can sometimes be recognized as foreign invaders (bacteria) by our immune cells. Too much inflammation happens, leading to many kinds of health problems and symptoms including asthma, skin rashes, arthritis, mood problems and multiple sclerosis.

If you develop sensitivity to gluten or dairy, you are more likely to have autoimmune types of problems. If an individual has trouble with gluten sensitivity, that person is nearly always sensitive to casein as well.

If you are going gluten-free, I urge you to also go casein-free (dairy-free). But don’t make the mistake of eating a lot of gluten-free pancakes, pastries and other such treats, or you will still have the sugar-loving trouble-making bacteria and yeasts in your bowels. When people eliminate sugar and white flour, they often find many symptoms reduce.

If you would like to learn more about how to design a diet that will ensure you have more of what your cells need to thrive, check out my book.
It includes recipes and sample menus to help you get started. Note that I donate half of all profits from the sales of my books and lectures to supporting my clinical research, which tests the benefits of intensive nutrition and lifestyle changes for those with multiple sclerosis and other autoimmune diseases. These funds have allowed us to gather the pilot data, which will enable us to get funding for larger studies. The ultimate goal of all my research is to bring health and vitality to as many people as possible.
Giving up food you love to eat the Wahls Diet™ to improve your health is usually a journey. Many people make the transition gradually. Take your first step. Learn how to cook for your mitochondria.
 

xchocoholic

Senior Member
Messages
2,947
Location
Florida
HI madie

I've heard this so many times myself. I guess our diets are just so far from the bio available foods that we're supposed to be eating to nourish our cells that it's hard for us to imagine a life without processed foods. Um, I probably thought this too prior to 2005. duh ... tc ... x
 

xchocoholic

Senior Member
Messages
2,947
Location
Florida
http://www.terrywahls.com/ForumRetrieve.aspx?ForumID=3736&TopicID=13980&NoTemplate=False


Wahls' current diet plan, based on review on amazon, is as follows:

* Eating 9 cups of non-starchy vegetables and berries each day (3 cups each of greens, sulfur containing veggies, and colourful veggies) is essential. Choose organic and/or grow your own if you can.

* It is okay to take in some of your 9 cups in the form of freshly pressed juices.

* Eating good quality grass-fed/free-range/organic meats daily is essential.

* Cook with natural fats such as coconut oil, lard and clarified butter/ghee.

* Eating organ meats such as liver is recommended at least once a week. Liver is very important for B vitamins. Cooked medium rare is best.

* Bone broths are recommended daily. They are full of minerals and help heal the gut.

* Eating seaweed once a week or more is recommended.

* Eating nuts/seeds or nutritional yeast is recommended daily, including coconut milk.

* Eating sprouts is recommended, such as broccoli sprouts.

* Eating fermented foods such as unpasturised sauerkraut is recommended.

* Eggs are recommended, although people with autoimmune diseases should not have egg whites due to a problematic protein in the egg white. (They should be eliminated at first and added back after a few weeks, and only eaten if there is no reaction to them. Same with nightshades)

* Eating small amounts of honey or cocoa is okay, and so is eating natural flavourings in food such as spices and ginger.

* Getting enough Omega 3 fatty acids and not too many Omega 6s is important, so Omega 6 containing oils should be minimised and fish oil capsules taken, and foods such as hemp oil, seafood and flax oil eaten. The best ratio is 3:1.

Other helpful things:

* Vitamin D should be over 50 ng/ml and under 100 ng/ml. (Take a test every 1- 3 months and take 4000 IU vitamin D3 daily, or more if needed. 150 ng/ml is toxic.).

* Having daily quiet time is important, to calm down our adrenals. Meditation, massage, nature and family time is also important.

* Epson salt baths, melatonin and herbal teas can help sleep.

* Minimise toxin exposure and quit smoking.

* B complex supplements or sulphur amino acids may be helpful (under a doctor's direction).

* Heavy metal testing and treatments such as clay baths and facial clay masks and saunas may be helpful.

* A good quality water filter is essential.

Wahls also supports ideas such as:

* Supplements can in some cases be helpful, but they can never replace a nutrient dense and healthy diet. A proper diet must always come first. Foods contain many beneficial cofactors and other compounds not included in supplements and many that we have not yet even discovered or named.

* Getting evaluated for potential food allergies, toxic load issues and more personalised nutritional needs by a practitioner of functional medicine is a very good idea. The Institute for Functional Medicine can help you find a provider in your area.

* Drugs are not the answer. Let food, good wholesome food be thy medicine.

* "Between the unexpected, unpleasant events in our lives and our response to those events is a space, and in that space we have a choice in deciding what our response will be. We can either give up or get up each day and do our best."

* "Epigenetics is how your environment talks to your genes. Our cells are capable of reading the state of our environment and activating or deactivating genes. This means that, based on the choices we make, we can turn on genes for health or turn off those health-promoting genes. In other words, it is your health behaviors such as diet and activities, that determine whether the health-promoting or the health-robbing genes are active. For some conditions, such as cystic fibrosis or hemophilia, our genes are an important factor, often the cause of the disease. But for the obesity, heart disease, mental health and autoimmune epidemics that are driving up the cost of health care in the U.S. and around the world, there are no single genes that are the culprit. Instead, for each of these problems, multiple genes are involved, and they interact in a complex way with the environment."

* We need to stop blaming our genes for our illnesses and work on making the best of the 70% that is under our control.

* "Yes, it does cost more to eat vegetables. But you will pay the price either way--for food that restores your health and vitality or for doctor visits, drugs, surgery and loss of work due to health problems."

* "Functional medicine is really looking at health of the cell. And what can we do to help the individual make the environment for their cells, an environment for doing the biochemistry life more ideal. So that comes down to the fruit you eat or do not eat, the quality of the air you breathe, the water you drink, the toxic load that is in your body is a result of the exposure you had over a lifetime because if you couldn't get the toxins out the day you were exposed to them, they get parked in your fat and did you know that your brain is 70% fat? So if you can't get the toxins out you had today with your whatever your exposure was, you're parking it in your fat and your brain which is going to create havoc over time."

Hard to argue with any of that! I agree with all of it. Most of the above are quotes from Dr Wahls, from her many websites.

Functional or holistic medicine just makes so much sense. It treats the actual cause of diseases, rather than just blindly drugging everything and focusing on endlessly chasing and minimising symptoms.

There are 3 basic principles of the type of medicine discussed by Wahls and others in this same field:

A. Get the good stuff in. Give your body the fuel and tools it needs to work at an optimum level. Good food, nutrients and all the proper vitamins, minerals and antioxidants. Make sure you aren't deficient in any of the major nutrients as the different nutrients all work together.

B. Get the bad stuff out. Make sure your body can detoxify out all the toxic substances and toxic by-products of bodily processes properly. Stop as many toxins from getting in in the first place, and do things which aid detoxification to get rid of the ones you have.

C. Reduce your body's total load. The total load concept is that lessening the body's overall burden/work and stress level in one area, will improve health generally and improve the body's ability to heal because the body's total load (or burden) is lessened. Fixing one problem frees up bodily resources that can be then be used to help other parts of the body function getter or to heal. In other words, you need to look at the body as a whole in order to heal, and not just the one part of the body that is generating the most symptoms.

Wahls writes, 'Raw dairy still has casein (protein) that looks like gluten to our immune system. That means raw milk still stimulates immune system problems. For those with food allergies / sensitivities it is still a major problem. Once sensitized - always sensitized. I avoid and strongly urge all with an a chronic disease or autoimmune disease to AVOID. Gluten grains - wheat, rye, barley, and the protein in dairy - can lead to an over active immune reaction -- which then can lead to autoimmune problems, asthma, rashes, mood problems and more. For many going gluten free, dairy free is the beginning of better health. Going fully paleo (no grain and no legumes) for many will lead to even more vitality. But for most - it is a transition that may take several weeks or months. It is ok to start small, but do start the journey..
'
 

xchocoholic

Senior Member
Messages
2,947
Location
Florida
For some reason I can't edit the above info. BUT ... fwiw ... we still have to consider our own bodies limitations on this. I can't have any form of caffeine whatsoever. So no chocolate for me. It just makes my makes my heart, adrenals or whatever buzz non stop for at least 24 hours. Then I'm left with my body adjusting from the buzzing.

OF COURSE, I've tried many times to get this back into my diet but failed each time. I guess if there's a bright side to this, at least I know now that these make my body buzz .. gluten, hfcs, sugar, certain supplements, ? do this to me too. I suspect that many do this, not just PWCs.

tc ... x
 

Chris

Senior Member
Messages
845
Location
Victoria, BC
Hello, I am still trying a Wahls' based diet--sort of. Have had some bad times recently for unknown causes--solar flares? (say that only half jokingly). Did run into some thyroid trouble a while back--raised TSH--but that seems to be quieting. I am now trying to steer my way between too much juicing--allows me to take in too much green stuff, that triggers the thyroid problem--and too much raw stuff, that seems to trigger gut problems--too much fibre. Steaming does cut down the goitrogenic push from greens a bit, so steam a lot of my greens and veg. Still convinced that there is magic in greens and beets--good for heart and immune issues (see latest magazine issue on www.aor.ca website)--as per "Fat, Sick, and nearly Dead"--and still virtually vegan (see latest research on Caloric Restriction, the only fully proven way of extending life-also cuts down inflammation--shows that reducing protein is key, and within that reducing methionine, an amino acid much higher in animal protein than in veg protein). However, this can lead to not enough Taurine, good for heart issues, so I do take some shellfish, scallops mostly, which are high in Taurine, relatively low in methionine, and not too high in cholesterol. This is more or less where Denise Minger is at (see her blog, www.rawfoodsos.com ).

I do still have an oat/quinoa mix for breakfast, but soak it overnight to cut phytates.

So I am hoping to resume my upward progress soon.... Good luck to us all, best, Chris
 

CJB

Senior Member
Messages
877
Most people who say "Well, I don't eat processed foods" mean they bake their own cookies...with flour, and butter, and chocolate chips.
I'm glad you brought this up. If you juice, is that processed? If you grind nuts and seeds is that processed? I define processed as having something removed, added, etc. White flour is wheat that has had the germ, etc., removed to extend shelf life and is obviously processed. But is almond butter processed if you grind it at the store?

My naturopath kind of got a funny look on her face when she suggested brown rice noodles and I said, "but I thought you said no processed foods". Apparently, she didn't considered that processed.

:eek:

What do you consider processed? (Question for the group;))
 

CJB

Senior Member
Messages
877
Hello, I am still trying a Wahls' based diet--sort of. Have had some bad times recently for unknown causes--solar flares? (say that only half jokingly). Did run into some thyroid trouble a while back--raised TSH--but that seems to be quieting. I am now trying to steer my way between too much juicing--allows me to take in too much green stuff, that triggers the thyroid problem--and too much raw stuff, that seems to trigger gut problems--too much fibre. Steaming does cut down the goitrogenic push from greens a bit, so steam a lot of my greens and veg. Still convinced that there is magic in greens and beets--good for heart and immune issues (see latest magazine issue on www.aor.ca website)--as per "Fat, Sick, and nearly Dead"--and still virtually vegan (see latest research on Caloric Restriction, the only fully proven way of extending life-also cuts down inflammation--shows that reducing protein is key, and within that reducing methionine, an amino acid much higher in animal protein than in veg protein). However, this can lead to not enough Taurine, good for heart issues, so I do take some shellfish, scallops mostly, which are high in Taurine, relatively low in methionine, and not too high in cholesterol. This is more or less where Denise Minger is at (see her blog, www.rawfoodsos.com ).

I do still have an oat/quinoa mix for breakfast, but soak it overnight to cut phytates.

So I am hoping to resume my upward progress soon.... Good luck to us all, best, Chris

Hi, Chris. So glad to see you here. I was worried after your last post.
 
Back