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Dr. Deckoff-Jones posts about the recent papers

Jemal

Senior Member
Messages
1,031
I think this warrants its own thread. Random quote:

I receive many questions about why Dr. Peterson is no longer working with the WPI, which I have generally tried not to answer, because I wasn't there. But, as of today, I think it safe to say that not only is he not working with us, the people he is collaborating with seem intent on destroying the institute that bears his name. I am in the middle of it, and it is unfathomable to me. I have never met Dr. Peterson, but here is my best guess, as the one following in the wake of this attempt to destroy the institute. It has to be all about intellectual property, and revenge. Nothing else makes sense. Why would he provide already tested specimens to Konstance Knox, who has a vendetta against the WPI? Knox worked as a consultant for VIP Dx and left under "difficult circumstances" related to her business practices. Science should have been aware of this history and made a serious inquiry of it. They were alerted to it, but proceeded to publish this morning anyway.

Taking the sordid details out of it, the Knox paper is yet another entirely negative paper where they proved they couldn't find it in anyone. Again, there was no real attempt to replicate Lombardi et al, only the innuendo that it was somehow disproved by this paper, by virtue of it being Peterson who provided the specimens. How could Science, a premier journal, publish such shoddy work, sloppier than the Singh paper, though with the same logical fallacy? It can't be both a contaminant and not there at the same time. Which is it? The totality of the evidence says neither. Why is no one asking the real question? How is it that VIP Dx finds approximately 4 out of 10 patients positive, not zero and not 100%? How do you explain contaminating only some of the specimens in the same run?

and

So if they make it go away, they can rediscover it later, with enough sequence variation to call it something else. And while the vultures fight over the carrion, new babies are born with it, teenagers are collapsing with an incurable illness and old people are dying prematurely, after decades of relentless suffering without help. Today is 600 days since Lombardi et al was published. It is shameful. Please express your outrage to Science.

More:
http://treatingxmrv.blogspot.com/2011/05/sad-day-for-patients.html
 

eric_s

Senior Member
Messages
1,925
Location
Switzerland/Spain (Valencia)
Knox worked as a consultant for VIP Dx and left under "difficult circumstances" related to her business practices. Science should have been aware of this history and made a serious inquiry of it. They were alerted to it, but proceeded to publish this morning anyway.
Holy ... and these are facts that can be verified or falsified.

Deleting a bit... maybe better, but i'm not a cynic by nature
 

Parismountain

Senior Member
Messages
181
Location
South Carolina
Are we to think a name change for WPI is in order? If the original Science paper somehow holds up to be right I'm only going to contribute funds to a Mikovits Whittemore Institute, the MWI because Dr. Mikovits if proven right deserves much more than this world can give.

I probably have said this before but if I were Mikovits and I saw all the ways scientists are suggesting my tests have gone wrong, privately I'd got to a Chenney or a Lapp and say hey FRIEND, send me 50 of your finest CFSers, flat out not doubt types and send me 50 healthy and you keep the knowledge of who is sick and well. I'll run my XMRV tests and list off to you by sample positives and negatives.

I've just got to think she's done checking like this and she nails it time after time. That would help explain to me her tenacity. If she's merely tenacious by personality type and hasn't done this kind of triple checking that she's onto something well then quite possibly she's mad (as in nuts).
 

Jemal

Senior Member
Messages
1,031
I didn't even read that letter yet, Eric. Thanks for linking. Knox gets heavy criticised! (I hope they can back up the criticism and that it's okay that Dr. Deckoff-Jones posted this letter).
 

eric_s

Senior Member
Messages
1,925
Location
Switzerland/Spain (Valencia)
I probably have said this before but if I were Mikovits and I saw all the ways scientists are suggesting my tests have gone wrong, privately I'd got to a Chenney or a Lapp and say hey FRIEND, send me 50 of your finest CFSers, flat out not doubt types and send me 50 healthy and you keep the knowledge of who is sick and well. I'll run my XMRV tests and list off to you by sample positives and negatives.
Yes, i have had the same thought many times. I actually think a ME/CFS organisation should have done this long time ago.
 

eric_s

Senior Member
Messages
1,925
Location
Switzerland/Spain (Valencia)
I didn't even read that letter yet, Eric. Thanks for linking. Knox gets heavy criticised! (I hope they can back up the criticism and that it's okay that Dr. Deckoff-Jones posted this letter).
Since she works for the WPI i think it's quite unlikely she did not have permission to post it.

It really looks as if everybody who has a problem with the WPI banded together to destroy them. I don't know about Levy, but certainly for Peterson and Konstance Knox and her institute it looks like this.

And the interesting thing is that all those mentioned incidents are things that can be proven or disproven. I wonder if none of what happened was of a quality so that it would have legal consequences. Certainly the WPI checked this.

The Sicilian mafia could learn from all of this...
 
Messages
13,774
I don't think stuff like this helps the WPI, and could partially explain why Science want to distance themselves from them earlier than many might expect.
 

currer

Senior Member
Messages
1,409
Unfortunately its normal. All human beings behave this way when the stakes are high especially when money is involved, or even just prestige. The history gets tidied up afterwards, thats all, once people have calmed down.
That is not the reason Science is stabbing them in the back.
 

eric_s

Senior Member
Messages
1,925
Location
Switzerland/Spain (Valencia)
I don't think stuff like this helps the WPI, and could partially explain why Science want to distance themselves from them earlier than many might expect.
What, Esther? Science has a problem with an open letter, but doesn't mind the conduct described in this letter and publishes those people's work? That would be extreme double standards.
 

SpecialK82

Ohio, USA
Messages
993
Location
Ohio, USA
Dr. Peterson has been an advocate, friend, and hero of the CFS community for a long time. I find it very hard to believe that he would do anything that would harm us. If he does not believe in the XMRV theory, then it is an intellectual debate. Just because some people believe it and some do not, does not mean that then they are "for" us getting well or "against" us getting well. Some of us, including me, just wants to see the science proceed, either replicate XMRV or rule it out so that we can go forward.

We will find out the results of Lipkin's and BWG studies soon enough.
 

Daffodil

Senior Member
Messages
5,873
paris....lololol hehehe

dang...dr. deckoff jones certainly doesnt mince words, does she lol
 

Cort

Phoenix Rising Founder
I think its just horribly unfortunate honestly.... I wish we could just debate this on the facts of the science rather than dragging in ideas about Dr. Peterson trying to destroy the WPI or that all Knox wants to do is slam the WPI because she had a problem with VIP Dx....

To suggest that Dr. Peterson, who has been a stalwart proponent of CFS patients for over 30 years and has dedicated his practice to helping them through thick and thin, would set aside his concern for their welfare in order to get back at the WPI is just AHHH - so upsetting!!! Why do we have to get into this muck???

Why do we have to get into the reputation destroying gossip....According to this post Konstance Knox is a vindictive b**** who would gladly cast aside her reputation in order to get back at that small lab from in Reno :)))

Of course Levy is in here too - because after 40 years of research and 500 plus papers - he is consorting with these two plus he has Abbott Labs on board and all they care about is that their test gets the money...(never mind that they are rapidly testing themselves out of the market with no positives...)

Resorting to these kind of conspiracy theories only hurts the WPI in my opinion.






 

LJS

Luke
Messages
213
Location
East Coast, USA
I don't think stuff like this helps the WPI, and could partially explain why Science want to distance themselves from them earlier than many might expect.
I could not agree more. The statements in the post are disturbing, you know when you start a blog post like this it is not going to come off well..
The apparently concerted effort to deny patients an answer or treatment for our disease continues.
What is she talking about?? This is science taking its course. If no one can find XMRV it does not mean it is a concerted effort to deny patients an answer, that is crazy talk. It means the WPI is most likely wrong and the science clearly supports that at this point.

How the WPI has handled this whole thing is so far beyond ridiculous I have no idea why CFS patients are not speaking out against it. Instead of the WPI reaching out to others that disagree with them they personally attack them. The attacks on Dr. Peterson in the blog post are the case and point and frankly just bizarre ramblings, I do not understand why they constantly go into conspiracy theories of how the world is against them and it is part of some big plan to get the WPI shut down.

They way the WPI has constantly resorted to rumors and childish blame games is completely unacceptable for a institution that is trying to be the face of CFS research and represents the CFS community to outsiders. If you want others in the science community to accept and respect your work you have to be respectful and debate the facts not jump to personal attacks, conspiracy theories, rumor spreading, and excuses when others cannot replicate your results.
 

floydguy

Senior Member
Messages
650
I could not agree more. The statements in the post are disturbing, you know when you start a blog post like this it is not going to come off well..

What is she talking about?? This is science taking its course. If no one can find XMRV it does not mean it is a concerted effort to deny patients an answer, that is crazy talk. It means the WPI is most likely wrong and the science clearly supports that at this point.

How the WPI has handled this whole thing is so far beyond ridiculous I have no idea why CFS patients are not speaking out against it. Instead of the WPI reaching out to others that disagree with them they personally attack them. The attacks on Dr. Peterson in the blog post are the case and point and frankly just bizarre ramblings, I do not understand why they constantly go into conspiracy theories of how the world is against them and it is part of some big plan to get the WPI shut down.

They way the WPI has constantly resorted to rumors and childish blame games is completely unacceptable for a institution that is trying to be the face of CFS research and represents the CFS community to outsiders. If you want others in the science community to accept and respect your work you have to be respectful and debate the facts not jump to personal attacks, conspiracy theories, rumor spreading, and excuses when others cannot replicate your results.

So who do you think deserves support?
 

liquid sky

Senior Member
Messages
371
I think its just horribly unfortunate honestly.... I wish we could just debate this on the facts of the science rather than dragging in ideas about Dr. Peterson trying to destroy the WPI or that all Knox wants to do is slam the WPI because she had a problem with VIP Dx....

To suggest that Dr. Peterson, who has been a stalwart proponent of CFS patients for over 30 years and has dedicated his practice to helping them through thick and thin, would set aside his concern for their welfare in order to get back at the WPI is just AHHH - so upsetting!!! Why do we have to get into this muck???

Why do we have to get into the reputation destroying gossip....According to this post Konstance Knox is a vindictive b**** who would gladly cast aside her reputation in order to get back at that small lab from in Reno :)))

Of course Levy is in here too - because after 40 years of research and 500 plus papers - he is consorting with these two plus he has Abbott Labs on board and all they care about is that their test gets the money...(never mind that they are rapidly testing themselves out of the market with no positives...)

Resorting to these kind of conspiracy theories only hurts the WPI in my opinion.







I think you summed it up quite well.